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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don't really understand these team President structures. I mean, now that he hired Lamoriello, what does Shanahan do all day?

    I would have vastly preferred Lagerwey because that Talent ID skillset is so difficult in MLS.

    I think I am agnostic on this hire, until I see what he does with Bez (maybe Vanney too). I am tired of the MLSE special, where the new guy has to work with people hired by others.

    It may be that Bez needs to go as a demonstration of a healthy functioning FO (I say that regardless of your opinion of Bez).
    The tweets show that he genuinely doesn’t want to change things. He's no MLSE lackey, he could have gone to the Impact or other clubs, so I believe what he's quoted as saying.

    He already knows Vanney from RSL, so I'm sure he already has his opinion of him. If he thinks Vanney can continue to grow as a coach, I think we should defer to his judgement... after all RSL were a great MLS 2.0 club even without the bucks.

  2. #32
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    COMPETENT MANAGEMENT IN MAKING COMPETENT DECISION SHOCKER!

    All jokes aside, I'm very happy about this. This hire was about getting the right guy to build the club off the field, in both stature and infrastructure. The best guy for that by a mile in this league is Manning.

  3. #33
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    He's saying what has to be said right now, right at the tail end of the season with p******s almost but not quite locked down. But as others have said, he already knows the key people, that is an enormous plus.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The tweets show that he genuinely doesn’t want to change things. He's no MLSE lackey, he could have gone to the Impact or other clubs, so I believe what he's quoted as saying.
    You don't need to be a lackey to become quickly captive to the decisions of others.

    This isn't Lou Lamiorello. The number of execs who tell their bosses where to get off is not large. We'll see.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  5. #35
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    Let's see what happens.

  6. #36
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    Had an interesting but limited discussion over twitter with @ENBSports regarding this signing. He suggested it wasnt really all that great because RSLs best days are behind them ie he hasnt done anything ot make them competitive in the last few seasons and that Vanney is out of his depth and will be staying because of this new Pres. I personally am waiting to see what happens, feel like a lot more is behind RSL faltering over the last few seasons and im very curious to see what Manning can do WITH financial backing...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Had an interesting but limited discussion over twitter with @ENBSports regarding this signing. He suggested it wasnt really all that great because RSLs best days are behind them ie he hasnt done anything ot make them competitive in the last few seasons and that Vanney is out of his depth and will be staying because of this new Pres. I personally am waiting to see what happens, feel like a lot more is behind RSL faltering over the last few seasons and im very curious to see what Manning can do WITH financial backing...
    Manning didn't have a lot to do with what happened on the field. He had Lagerway to sign players and Kreis out there to put it all together. The great thing Manning was able to do was to consistently sell out an 18K stadium in Salt Lake city as well as building the biggest and most productive academy in the league with a seemingly tiny talent pool. We're fine on the field with Bez and Vanney. Manning's been brought in to do the same job he did off the field he did in Salt Lake, but in a far bigger market and a much bigger youth talent pool to work with.
    Last edited by molenshtain; 10-12-2015 at 06:10 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    What's happening at RSL??
    Kreis left for a team with more resources.

    Other 2 not interested in another rebuild.

    Lagerway goes to Seattle where they will be retooling over the next 2 seasons but not like RSL.

    Manning goes to TFC who are on the rise.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Had an interesting but limited discussion over twitter with @ENBSports regarding this signing.....

    All you need to know about @ENBSports on this issue is his tweet about this being just a random guy being signed. This random guy is 2014 exec of the year.

  10. #40
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    I love this hire. But I won't get excited and jump up and down for joy calling this a game changer for TFC, because I've done this kind of shit in the past and it always blows up in the club's face. Better wait to see how all this unfolds first.

    Call me cautiously optimistic, if you must.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    All you need to know about @ENBSports on this issue is his tweet about this being just a random guy being signed. This random guy is 2014 exec of the year.
    Hes a bit more credible than that, not saying he convinced me either, either way felt they were some interesting points worth looking at

  12. #42
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    Ur right. Just, that line was so off. Like, come on, he's no random dude.

    I sometimes think the analytics guy's focus on stats gets in the way of them understanding what the President role can do, or not do, for a franchise. Manning isn't going to get us a player. But he will set/confirm the template which will focus the getting of players.

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    He sounds like the right guy from lots of perspectives. But. The big issues for TFC will be won or lost in the boardroom. Tim L helped us there, a lot, and it is hard to escape the conclusion that he became a threat to Larry T's control of MLSE and was therefore manoeuvred out. manning will be Larrys guy, for better or worse. And, while I don't think Larry is ill motivated, he did buy the Argos and put them in BMO, so he needs watching.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    He sounds like the right guy from lots of perspectives. But. The big issues for TFC will be won or lost in the boardroom. Tim L helped us there, a lot, and it is hard to escape the conclusion that he became a threat to Larry T's control of MLSE and was therefore manoeuvred out. manning will be Larrys guy, for better or worse. And, while I don't think Larry is ill motivated, he did buy the Argos and put them in BMO, so he needs watching.
    Leiweke was supposed to leave five months ago. Manning is Leiweke's replacement as our voice in the boardroom. Leiweke's work is done here and He'll be in LA by april.

    So that's not really an issue, is it?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    He sounds like the right guy from lots of perspectives. But. The big issues for TFC will be won or lost in the boardroom. Tim L helped us there, a lot, and it is hard to escape the conclusion that he became a threat to Larry T's control of MLSE and was therefore manoeuvred out. manning will be Larrys guy, for better or worse. And, while I don't think Larry is ill motivated, he did buy the Argos and put them in BMO, so he needs watching.
    Larry, until Bell / Rogers start feuding with each other, is largely a figure head. This isn't the OTPP power vacuum he previously operated in, these guys are active.

    Minority shareholder with the other two forced by contract to vote in a block ... His bark is bigger than his bite.

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    For everyone wondering what the role of a president is:
    The role of the president is basically to do what Tom Anselmi's job was, except instead of a real estate developer we now have someone who understands the game and the league. His job is to organize the structure of the organization. If the coach or GM leaves (fired, or other reason), who hires their replacement? Without a president who's knowledgeable about the game and the league at the top, it would be the MLSE board who would be hiring our new GM or coach. And while a coach or GM has to come up with results now to keep their jobs, the president is evaluated over a much longer period of time. The president sets a direction for the club, hires people who he thinks will fit, and fires and replaces them if they don't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax TFC View Post
    For everyone wondering what the role of a president is:
    The role of the president is basically to do what Tom Anselmi's job was, except instead of a real estate developer we now have someone who understands the game and the league. His job is to organize the structure of the organization. If the coach or GM leaves (fired, or other reason), who hires their replacement? Without a president who's knowledgeable about the game and the league at the top, it would be the MLSE board who would be hiring our new GM or coach. And while a coach or GM has to come up with results now to keep their jobs, the president is evaluated over a much longer period of time. The president sets a direction for the club, hires people who he thinks will fit, and fires and replaces them if they don't work.
    This is a fad with unproven outcomes. Frankly, in general it seems to me that most of these setups are designed to have competing power structures in perpetual battle.

    Give me Lagerwey as GM and no President and I personally would have been a hell of a lot happier.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam1001 View Post
    Kind of reminiscent of the Kevin Payne move. Hopefully, things work out for the better this time around.
    Kevin Payne was hired as president AND GM. That's the big difference. Making him GM as well made him too close to the team and put him in a position where he would be directly responsible for the failings of the first team. He also had the misfortune of having Lieweke come in at MLSE and (unofficially) personally take over the role of TFC president. With Lieweke leaving now, we need someone who can fill the void at the top of the TFC organization and essentially do what Lieweke did with respect to TFC.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is a fad with unproven outcomes. Frankly, in general it seems to me that most of these setups are designed to have competing power structures in perpetual battle.

    Give me Lagerwey as GM and no President and I personally would have been a hell of a lot happier.
    How does it create competing power structures? Having a president gives you one guy in charge of the whole organization (first team, academy, scouting, etc.) with no doubt about who has the power. Everyone answers to that guy. Most teams have a president or a board above the manager. The MLSE board doesn't have anyone that knows anything about running a soccer team, and has many other divisions to run, which is why you need a specialized executive to run that division.

    You want Lagerway as GM, but who hires him? Who evaluates his performance? The MLSE board? And who sets up and runs the other parts of the organization like the academy and scouting network? That's a bit outside of the scope of the GM's role. And the MLSE board isn't qualified to make those kinds of decisions.

  20. #50
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    I'm very happy with this appointment, no doubt about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax TFC View Post
    You want Lagerway as GM, but who hires him? Who evaluates his performance? The MLSE board? And who sets up and runs the other parts of the organization like the academy and scouting network? That's a bit outside of the scope of the GM's role. And the MLSE board isn't qualified to make those kinds of decisions.
    Exactly right. You need someone at the top that knows a thing or two about what's going on below him. So many high-level decisions in the past that have blown up in our face wouldn't have happened with someone like Manning steering the ship... for instance there's no way we ever would have hired Klinsmann as a consultant to pick our new coach, an utterly ridiculous concept from the beginning.

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    Not the mention all of the business stuff that will now be handled by Manning.

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    He's the stadium runner. It will be his call on grass, turf, or desso. His relationship to the supporters groups will be interesting. The RIOT isn't the same level.

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    The game is so big and complex from an organizational standpoint that clubs pretty much need a president. A GM helps build the product on the field, the coach/manager gets it to work and the president ensures there are enough scarves sold, sponsors secured, a solid stadium, and that the training facilities are built, maintained with the appropriate staff to operate them. It requires knowledge of the game and the way sports operates (because ultimately it involves oversight of the GM and manager to some extent), but it's more around the business of football. The President also reports to the board and makes the pitches for funding and such. It's an important role, but its relationship to the product on the field is a bit distant on a day-to-day basis in most clubs.

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    I like any "team" concept of management, where there is good cohesion of thinking.

    Let us hope that is what we will get here.

    It's not obvious that bringing in the biggest name last is the way to do this.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is a fad with unproven outcomes. Frankly, in general it seems to me that most of these setups are designed to have competing power structures in perpetual battle.

    Give me Lagerwey as GM and no President and I personally would have been a hell of a lot happier.
    To me, its just representation at the board level and directional leadership for the actual team (we need it all from all accounts). I will give it a shot, but agree with the idea of having the wait and see approach. We have all been to the circus too many times.
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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    He's the stadium runner. It will be his call on grass, turf, or desso. His relationship to the supporters groups will be interesting. The RIOT isn't the same level.
    It may be his to sign off on but I won't hold my breath on changes for the 2016 season regarding the grass vs desso or straight to turf.

    I think this is a case of just using grass to get past the Grey Cup and hockey classics and then put in something to care about surface wise.
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    The game is so big and complex from an organizational standpoint that clubs pretty much need a president. A GM helps build the product on the field, the coach/manager gets it to work and the president ensures there are enough scarves sold, sponsors secured, a solid stadium, and that the training facilities are built, maintained with the appropriate staff to operate them. It requires knowledge of the game and the way sports operates (because ultimately it involves oversight of the GM and manager to some extent), but it's more around the business of football. The President also reports to the board and makes the pitches for funding and such. It's an important role, but its relationship to the product on the field is a bit distant on a day-to-day basis in most clubs.

  29. #59
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    I'm going to hope, but expect things will go sideways at some point like only TFC can. I just have to manage my expectations about this hire.

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    This is a laughable hire as long a TL is still around. He's just a empty suit until TL leaves. TL loves MLS and is pulling all the strings for all TFC decisions. This goes for bez too.

 

 

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