Game 18 - Philly Sizzle Meets Giovinco Steak - TFC vs. Union Saturday 4 pm TSN

[Fort York Redcoat]

This thread has derailed. Someone should start a new supporters section topic.

No thanks. We've had threads to address this issue before and it solved nothing.

With even bigger and bigger flags arriving in 114, something is going to break.

The theory seems to be that they are allowed to do it, so they will do it.

I fear that if they don't start respecting their fellow supporters, that ultimately the rules will change. I fear we risk seeing flags or more banned - at least anything bigger than a football rattle.

The lack of restraint or a willingness to work with others is troubling. And I fear that it will tar us all. It would be nice if this could be worked out without complaining to the front office ... I just don't think that helps any of us.

It's no theory, N, it's the reality put in place. The rules may change but not out of comment made here. With official complaints and requests to move the club will do one or the other - move people that want to see the game and let those who want to support that way into 114 or just ban flags altogether.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The answer is that people are human and they usually realise that they are ruining something for other people above and beyond their self-involved act. Like when you go to a concert and somebody puts their girlfriend/child on their shoulders for a vast period of time and then the people behind them can't see anything. That person usually gets the message that the people behind can't see (or not, and then some irate person throws a bottle of something-gross at their head - we've all been to "that" concert when "that" happen!

I realise 100% that 114 is a supporters section - I realise that people can bring in banners/flags/drums etc. I've been a SSH since day 1 in the south end so I've seen it all in the south end. But the line is drawn at where you can't see vast areas of the football pitch for vast parts of the game. If the thoery that "you should expect to see flags" is true to the point where you can't see the play, then I will bring in a 6 foot tall- 6 foot wide banner to the next game and hold it up continuously throughout the game - however I'm almost certain I will be asked to lower it by the 5th minute of play when the 100 people behind me can't see anything at all.

There is a massive different "imo" between expecting to see some flags/banners during some parts of the game and being behind a flag so large that you can't see anything on the field for vast portions of the game.

I don't see an answer in there. You've explained what's happening, why you don't like it but no new way to address the issue.

Another reason why General Admission is a good idea

This is not what people are saying. People are saying how much they like the seat they've had "since day one". You want to talk about complaints to FO? THAT move would instantly put them in the crosshairs and we're trying to make things happen here without mass revolt and avoid escalating confrontations.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If you're not adding to the atmosphere - or at minimum neutral - you're taking away from it. Who is impressed by a flag flying on a 20' pole throughout the game? People on TV? Congrats, you're getting your hardcoreness across to the couple thousand that bother to tune in and aiding the puckheads who love to say the only reason we sing and chant and wave flags is because nothing is happening on the field. Be proud. But if you can't recognize that the people that are behind you in your section aren't going to find that endearing, you're no threat for MENSA and the atmosphere in your section will turn to nothing.

Love when I see the guys doing it staring up at their erect flags with the game 10' away. Maybe they're compensating for something?

They do what they do and believe that it's important to the atmosphere and are allowed to do it. Insults here are unnecessary and serve no purpose.

There are hundreds of ticket holders behind this section. TFC has a huge job to do to make that section what it needs to be.

It will either go back to what it was or it will change further.

I hope everyone who's posting here that cares is passing it on to their rep.

It may not do as much as fast as we want but it sure does more than this firefanning in here.

[BuSaPuNk]

Disagree, Pint. Been there since Day 1 and have come to know the people in the rows around me quite well, and why should I or we change for some knobhead scenester who is new? When the two gents in 114 went down to ask the flags be down for the run of play, they were widely applauded, by 115 as well. Think that message got through a lot louder than any bullhorn could've delivered it. We're there to SEE the game so we can support it accordingly. Not bring some shallow "look at me" bullshit.

The options are these: they reign it in to the level of smart people or I'm not renewing. That's the message my ticket rep will be getting. Wouldn't move to sit on the bench for free to accommodate the ignorant.

So because you've been there since day one your opinion matters more?

There's a way to address this without confrontations in the stands that don't address any issue and just fan the flames more. Everyone is entitled to support the club as they see fit as long as there support falls under the rules and regulations of the south end and in this case they do.

If you have an issue best to address it with your account rep and move from there. Mug slinging, name calling, and eletist attitudes get this situation no where.

[Bishop Blaize]

I don't see an answer in there. You've explained what's happening, why you don't like it but no new way to address the issue.



This is not what people are saying. People are saying how much they like the seat they've had "since day one". You want to talk about complaints to FO? THAT move would instantly put them in the crosshairs and we're trying to make things happen here without mass revolt and avoid escalating confrontations.

I think T-BOY does give an answer, there is an expectation of some flag waving during a game, you would expect and actually want it right after we scored, maybe during a break in play. I think the issue is the 90 mins waving of large flags blocking peoples views. Commonsense approach is needed here, no need at all to wave large flags for 90 mins. It doesn't postively impact the crowd, in fact right now it's actually a distraction. I'm in 114, not asking them to remove their flags, just limit it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think T-BOY does give an answer, there is an expectation of some flag waving during a game, you would expect and actually want it right after we scored, maybe during a break in play. I think the issue is the 90 mins waving of large flags blocking peoples views. Commonsense approach is needed here, no need at all to wave large flags for 90 mins. It doesn't postively impact the crowd, in fact right now it's actually a distraction. I'm in 114, not asking them to remove their flags, just limit it.

WHO limits it?

We're talking about an issue that has already been addressed. Ticket holders have asked for a different kind of support than what is happening.

You can all post about what you think is proper/common/logical/respectful but it doesn't change what's allowed and what they can practice.

Multiple people have voiced their complaints and disagreement on the support in 114. It's noted but policy will not change in here.

I understand people's complaints. I also see only one section that does what it does. Whether it will continue to do so will be up to Toronto FC.

[OgtheDim]

Ok, I've raised this and nobody seems to want to talk about it soooo.....flame on.

That blocking of the view of people in accessible seating....I know everybody on here is wanting to ignore that angle BUT......one complaint to OHRC and those flags come down in every conceivable angle someone in accessible seating can be in. And that would include TIFO's and smoke and.......but hey lets just try to ignore that.

Ya'll want to see a shit storm? Let that happen. For the sake of "well everybody knows and its only a few flags"

If its a choice between people with accessibility needs being in the supporter area and flags, I would come down on the side of people. Why? CAUSE DISABLED PEOPLE EXIST DAMN IT.

It doesn't have to be that choice though.

To be blunt


There's a person in a wheelchair behind you that can't see the game cause you are waving a flag all the time. Your not being inclusive. Stop being a jerk and start being inclusive, like everybody else is talking about. Thats crossing the line. Its discriminatory. Wave the flag before and during celebratory times. Not during play.


Or don't we give a shit about the disabled anymore?


And don't give me "Oh they can move." Why the hell should disabled people NOT be able to be in the supporter's end? Cause somebody wants to wave around a flag whenever they want to?

Fuck that shit.


Grow up.

We talk about inclusion and then when it comes to somebody in a wheelchair, NOBODY GIVES two pieces of doggie do.



It comes down to 1 question


Are you inclusive or are you not?


Every thing else talked about in here is "I want" stuff.

Well, guess what, when it comes to accessible seating, it ain't about what you want anymore.


They have the right to be there and see the field.


Suck it up, grow up and move on supporting the club with everybody around you.


My ALL FOR ONE includes people in wheelchairs.


/flame

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ok, I've raised this and nobody seems to want to talk about it soooo.....flame on.

That blocking of the view of people in accessible seating....I know everybody on here is wanting to ignore that angle BUT......one complaint to OHRC and those flags come down in every conceivable angle someone in accessible seating can be in. And that would include TIFO's and smoke and.......but hey lets just try to ignore that.

Ya'll want to see a shit storm? Let that happen. For the sake of "well everybody knows and its only a few flags"

If its a choice between people with accessibility needs being in the supporter area and flags, I would come down on the side of people. Why? CAUSE DISABLED PEOPLE EXIST DAMN IT.

It doesn't have to be that choice though.

To be blunt


There's a person in a wheelchair behind you that can't see the game cause you are waving a flag all the time. Your not being inclusive. Stop being a jerk and start being inclusive, like everybody else is talking about. Thats crossing the line. Its discriminatory. Wave the flag before and during celebratory times. Not during play.


Or don't we give a shit about the disabled anymore?


And don't give me "Oh they can move." Why the hell should disabled people NOT be able to be in the supporter's end? Cause somebody wants to wave around a flag whenever they want to?

Fuck that shit.


Grow up.

We talk about inclusion and then when it comes to somebody in a wheelchair, NOBODY GIVES two pieces of doggie do.



It comes down to 1 question


Are you inclusive or are you not?


Every thing else talked about in here is "I want" stuff.

Well, guess what, when it comes to accessible seating, it ain't about what you want anymore.


They have the right to be there and see the field.


Suck it up, grow up and move on supporting the club with everybody around you.


My ALL FOR ONE includes people in wheelchairs.

To clarify

This is directed at 114. The RPB are not responsible or accountable for that groups actions or attitude.

Carry on

[T-boy]

I think T-BOY does give an answer, there is an expectation of some flag waving during a game, you would expect and actually want it right after we scored, maybe during a break in play. I think the issue is the 90 mins waving of large flags blocking peoples views. Commonsense approach is needed here, no need at all to wave large flags for 90 mins. It doesn't postively impact the crowd, in fact right now it's actually a distraction. I'm in 114, not asking them to remove their flags, just limit it.

I guess I didn't explicitly give my "option" - but yes, the option is that those who are waving flags have to be "reasonable" and wave their flags at the appropriate times (before the game and up until kick off, celebrating a goal, half time and when the players come back on the field, and at the end to hopefully celebrate a good result. I don't really want to get the TFC office involved but those at the front of 114 have to be reasonable enough to negotiate something that is good for everybody. At the moment they are rebuffing everybody who comes and asks them to be reasonable, they HAVE to stop that approach otherwise its going to end in a big problem/fight between our own supporters.

Eventually those big flags will get in the way of a great goal/penalty decision/red card offense and a few hundred people will completely miss that one play and people are going to get super angry and there will be a confrontation that is avoidable.

Wave the flag before and during celebratory times. Not during play.

This, exactly. Nobody is asking anybody to STOP altogether - but just be reasonable and think of those around them.

[Couchy81]

If any one of you were at the final game of the playoffs, and we scored the game winning goal for the Cup and you missed the entire thing because of a flag, you'd be pissed.

Flags for warm up, at halftime, after a goal etc. Not during the play. It's common sense.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I guess I didn't explicitly give my "option" - but yes, the option is that those who are waving flags have to be "reasonable" and wave their flags at the appropriate times (before the game and up until kick off, celebrating a goal, half time and when the players come back on the field, and at the end to hopefully celebrate a good result. I don't really want to get the TFC office involved but those at the front of 114 have to be reasonable enough to negotiate something that is good for everybody. At the moment they are rebuffing everybody who comes and asks them to be reasonable, they HAVE to stop that approach otherwise its going to end in a big problem/fight between our own supporters.

Eventually those big flags will get in the way of a great goal/penalty decision/red card offense and a few hundred people will completely miss that one play and people are going to get super angry and there will be a confrontation that is avoidable.



This, exactly. Nobody is asking anybody to STOP altogether - but just be reasonable and think of those around them.

If any one of you were at the final game of the playoffs, and we scored the game winning goal for the Cup and you missed the entire thing because of a flag, you'd be pissed.

Flags for warm up, at halftime, after a goal etc. Not during the play. It's common sense.

You're repeating yourself and i don't see anything new.

You are hoping they listen to "reason".

They think they are being reasonable.

I admire if you continue to try and repeat your reasoned request civilly to the section but I don't see a reason for any change in behaviour. They are allowed to do what they do.

Good luck but I strongly suggest another way to see results and not an escalation in animosity.

[T-boy]

You're repeating yourself and i don't see anything new.

You are hoping they listen to "reason".

They think they are being reasonable.

I admire if you continue to try and repeat your reasoned request civilly to the section but I don't see a reason for any change in behaviour. They are allowed to do what they do.

Good luck but I strongly suggest another way to see results and not an escalation in animosity.

To clarify - I will NEVER escalate in animosity. I have contacted my account rep and complained equally about the flag wavers AND those who started throwing beers/water bottle at the wavers. The last thing I/we/anybody wants is a fight between our own fans, which is unfortunately how I see things ending up if the angst between some fans at the end of the Philly game continues into the next home game.

I'm sorry, I was just replying to somebody who didn't understand what I was typing and I was trying to clarify, apologies if it appears I'm repeating myself.

I'm not going to continue with the subject, but rest assured I won't be one of those involved if there is a big fight next game.

[nfitz]

The guys with the flags are U-Sector no?

No, they are mostly in 113 not 114. If anything they are more impacted than 112, being harder to see corners with the flags. Though now the flagpoles are even longer, that it's less of a problem for 113 ... but more of a problem for those in the back of 114 and 115.

The ones that this seems to be getting to the most are those in 114 and 115 that aren't part of any organized groups, and have been there for years..

I'm really glad I moved out of 114 this season - by chance.

[TFC Cityboy]

For the sake of averting possible conflict and to earn the goodwill and co-operation of the long-established supporters in the centre of the south, all the Innebriatti needs to do is limit the of the big flag to start and end of matches plus goal celebrations. It's very simple and so easy to solve. We are not talking Middle East peace talks here.

Currently many of us in 114/115 refuse to join in their chants as we are not respected by them.Make this simple gesture, and they will see much better co-operation from the rest of us in 114/115 and add to the atmosphere they crave.

As someone pointed out in here, take a look at the hundreds of flags on the Kop at Anfield just before a match. Looks great, imposing and adds atmosphere.Let's have lots of them at BMO.
BUT, if those flags were flying during the play at Anfield it would not be tolerated.

I really fear this situation will spill out of hand and we all lose then.

Thanks

[Fort York Redcoat]

For the sake of averting possible conflict and to earn the goodwill and co-operation of the long-established supporters in the centre of the south, all the Innebriatti needs to do is limit the of the big flag to start and end of matches plus goal celebrations. It's very simple and so easy to solve. We are not talking Middle East peace talks here.

Currently many of us in 114/115 refuse to join in their chants as we are not respected by them.Make this simple gesture, and they will see much better co-operation from the rest of us in 114/115 and add to the atmosphere they crave.

As someone pointed out in here, take a look at the hundreds of flags on the Kop at Anfield just before a match. Looks great, imposing and adds atmosphere.Let's have lots of them at BMO.
BUT, if those flags were flying during the play at Anfield it would not be tolerated.

I really fear this situation will spill out of hand and we all lose then.

Thanks

They have made their decision and your silence isn't changing their point of view.

You don't have to go overseas for a reference. All of these issues were raised and dealt with in our section. It took years. It may take years to see a difference in 114 but this forum has little to do with changing that. It's a different group.

[TFC Cityboy]

They have made their decision and your silence isn't changing their point of view.

You don't have to go overseas for a reference. All of these issues were raised and dealt with in our section. It took years. It may take years to see a difference in 114 but this forum has little to do with changing that. It's a different group.

Decisions get changed all the time due to outside pressure. This conversation on here is helpful as some of them read this board. I am well aware they are a different group.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Decisions get changed all the time due to outside pressure. This conversation on here is helpful as some of them read this board. I am well aware they are a different group.

Good luck. While you've voiced your displeasure here, it's no conversation with those involved. That would be more constructive than the response you'll get from here, on another groups site.

Again, your perspective and opinion is not alone. I only want to see it get a resolution that I know it won't get in here.

[Pint]

Decisions get changed all the time due to outside pressure. This conversation on here is helpful as some of them read this board. I am well aware they are a different group.

The conversation on here will only harden their stance, if you think complaining in an online forum will get their attention, well then you don't know them very well.

[McBrace]

http://www.torontofc.ca/content/code-conduct

First Point - Where Fans are encouraged to cheer, sing, and otherwise support their team while remaining respectful and courteous to their fellow patrons

[Pint]

http://www.torontofc.ca/content/code-conduct

First Point - Where Fans are encouraged to cheer, sing, and otherwise support their team while remaining respectful and courteous to their fellow patrons

It also says right below that statement, that we are not allowed to use foul language.

[T-boy]

It also says right below that statement, that we are not allowed to use foul language.

You scullion! You rampallian! You fustilarian! I’ll tickle your catastrophe!

[__wowza]

Good luck. While you've voiced your displeasure here, it's no conversation with those involved. That would be more constructive than the response you'll get from here, on another groups site.

Again, your perspective and opinion is not alone. I only want to see it get a resolution that I know it won't get in here.

this.

as much as we try and promote a healthy, active TFC/gameday discussion, we also have an unwritten policy to not disparage other folks on our board. that's why i'm locking off the tread. earlier i mentioned that 114 is a supporters section, and supporters have been given the right to wave flags. that's not on them, that's on the FO.

like FYR said, we want to see this issue get resolved, but it won't be resolved here. contacting a ticket rep or speaking with an usher would be the best bet.