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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    You managed to use the name of both players I think need to go in a very creative way. This actually made me smile lol!

    I've seen this scenario before by managers all around the world:
    The manager gives an out of favour player a last set of chances to prove himself before being shown the door.

    This works two ways:
    If the player does well, his value goes up and the team may be able to get something for him. The player also has a better shot at landing somewhere decent - win-win. If the player does was Creavalle has done, well, it's just easier for the club to move him on without a second thought.

    I think Vanney has been giving Creavalle his last set of chances to prove himself before we sign a couple guys. It's more of a favour by the manager to one of his players.

    I'm the first to say we lost points and it sucks, but reality it, losing these points should not hurt us in the long run if we are a real playoff contender. Any points on the road are good points. Vanney gambled and IMO - broke even.
    Vanny is an idiot if he thinks giving Creavalle his last chance is by playing him in a position that isnt natural to him.

    Ive been hard on Creavalle, but I think he is pretty decent to good as a CM, I think he is being setup for failure and actually feel sorry for him. Sure he had a major screw up, but which MLS player doesnt on occasion?
    Last edited by Richard; 07-13-2015 at 11:37 AM.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Jason had the right comment on the broadcast - This league invests so much on scoring it under invests on defense.
    AMEN.

  3. #513
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    Every league does that. Defenders always get paid less then forwards and keepers always get the worst pay. The difference in this league is the DP rule which always going to be invested in the hardest thing to do in this game - score.

    Right now, its the Hunt's of this league making decisions about the salary cap - this is going to change. When that happens, we should see an increase in defensive ability but not a huge one as there will always be limits due to domestic requirements.

  4. #514
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    ^ Top center backs are expensive through out Europe, not as expensive as top 9s and top 10s but they are expensive. The ideal is for you defenders to be home grown, but for that you need a great academy and our academy is not up to it yet. It has produced some decent defenders but not good enough yet. Look at the money PSG paid for their pair of CBs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    ^ Top center backs are expensive through out Europe, not as expensive as top 9s and top 10s but they are expensive. The ideal is for you defenders to be home grown, but for that you need a great academy and our academy is not up to it yet. It has produced some decent defenders but not good enough yet. Look at the money PSG paid for their pair of CBs.
    Let's not pretend David luiz should cost anything more than a beer and a bag of peanuts.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Every league does that. Defenders always get paid less then forwards and keepers always get the worst pay. The difference in this league is the DP rule which always going to be invested in the hardest thing to do in this game - score.

    Right now, its the Hunt's of this league making decisions about the salary cap - this is going to change. When that happens, we should see an increase in defensive ability but not a huge one as there will always be limits due to domestic requirements.
    This is happening, but not as quickly as anyone but them want. This pot of new money for Double Secret Probation Core Somethings is likely the compromise reached between those wanting higher cap and those who are fine with things as they are. I fully expect when Pirlo and Lampard start complaining to City bigwig Ferran Soriano about how crap the defense is at NYCFC (I assume Villa already is), he'll continue to add pressure at the board level along with the other big spenders.

  7. #517
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    We need wins man. What a wasted All-Time great performance.

  8. #518
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    Another thing to consider is that in a league that doesn't have relegation it makes more sense to sort out your offensive capabilities first and foremost because that is what most people want to see. A team that's better at scoring goals than preventing them is more likely to sell more seats than one that isn't. MLS is a league that rewards good defense if it's paired with good offence but it doesn't punish bad defending the way leagues with relegation generally do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    What a great read, even if the result was a draw, but what an exciting draw it was.

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    No doubt the most exciting game this season but also the most frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    No doubt the most exciting game this season but also the most frustrating.
    How true

  13. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    This is happening, but not as quickly as anyone but them want. This pot of new money for Double Secret Probation Core Somethings is likely the compromise reached between those wanting higher cap and those who are fine with things as they are. I fully expect when Pirlo and Lampard start complaining to City bigwig Ferran Soriano about how crap the defense is at NYCFC (I assume Villa already is), he'll continue to add pressure at the board level along with the other big spenders.
    Doesn't it ultimately come down to votes though - one per team? And the cheapskates outnumber those that want to spend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Doesn't it ultimately come down to votes though - one per team? And the cheapskates outnumber those that want to spend.
    Can't the league force sales in this single entity bs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Doesn't it ultimately come down to votes though - one per team? And the cheapskates outnumber those that want to spend.
    Yes and no. There is a bloc mostly from MLS 1.0 that sway things right now. This is going to change in the next 10 years.

  16. #526
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    This is the thing for me: Creavalle came on in the 83rd minute. At the moment, TFC was leading 4-3. Creavalle came in to replace Jackson -- which may have made sense, not sure, but Jackson was running lots and probably needed a break. Creavalle could have been used to shore up the defensive midfield, run like crazy to pressure the NY midfield, and protect the lead.

    However, Vanney didn't put Creavalle in at midfield, even though Creavalle has often played quite well there. Instead, he put him in at RB, where he's screwed up numerous times previously.

    As a result, Vanney also shifted Morrow from RB (where he was playing OK) to LB. Although that's Morrow's natural position, he's also mentioned in interviews, that the hardest thing about playing both LB & RB is switching between them. To do it for the last 7 minutes of the game, w/o a real need for that, is crazy IMO.

    At the same time, Vanney moved Lovitz forward from LB, where he was OK but not spectacular, and into midfield -- but further unsettled the defense for no real reason.

    Plus Perquis was subbed out in the 76th minute due to injury, so the defense was already jumbled (and it was never great to begin with). Add to that the scrambling of the wingbacks, and you've mixed up 3/4 of your defense for the last few minutes of the game. And Creavalle gifts NY a goal.

    Finally, Vanney only made 2 of the available 3 subs, and one of those was forced (Perquis). WTF -- why don't you make all three subs, first to protect the lead; or to protect the tie & regain the lead?

    In no way am I big on firing coaches willy nilly, but stuff like that really pisses me off. Sure we need defensive reinforcements, but Vanney's not even making best use of the limited resources available.

  17. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Context:

    Next week we get both Osorio and Morgan back.
    Wait What? Canada is going to beat Costa Rica, Piette is suspended so Oso or Teibert will be in to feed Larin and Akindele and the reds will come through with 3 points and move on to the next round
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 07-14-2015 at 09:35 AM.

  18. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon View Post
    So many over reactions in this thread. We were missing 4 (2 of which are DP's) starters not including Caldwell/Bloom and still put up a very good effort on the road.
    Also, idk how you can blame Vanney for an MLS veteran making a boneheaded play like that at the end of the game.
    Bloom was on the bench and Crevalle has made lots of mistakes at RB. Poor choice to bring him on at that moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    This is the thing for me: Creavalle came on in the 83rd minute. At the moment, TFC was leading 4-3. Creavalle came in to replace Jackson -- which may have made sense, not sure, but Jackson was running lots and probably needed a break. Creavalle could have been used to shore up the defensive midfield, run like crazy to pressure the NY midfield, and protect the lead.

    However, Vanney didn't put Creavalle in at midfield, even though Creavalle has often played quite well there. Instead, he put him in at RB, where he's screwed up numerous times previously.

    As a result, Vanney also shifted Morrow from RB (where he was playing OK) to LB. Although that's Morrow's natural position, he's also mentioned in interviews, that the hardest thing about playing both LB & RB is switching between them. To do it for the last 7 minutes of the game, w/o a real need for that, is crazy IMO.

    At the same time, Vanney moved Lovitz forward from LB, where he was OK but not spectacular, and into midfield -- but further unsettled the defense for no real reason.

    Plus Perquis was subbed out in the 76th minute due to injury, so the defense was already jumbled (and it was never great to begin with). Add to that the scrambling of the wingbacks, and you've mixed up 3/4 of your defense for the last few minutes of the game. And Creavalle gifts NY a goal.

    Finally, Vanney only made 2 of the available 3 subs, and one of those was forced (Perquis). WTF -- why don't you make all three subs, first to protect the lead; or to protect the tie & regain the lead?

    In no way am I big on firing coaches willy nilly, but stuff like that really pisses me off. Sure we need defensive reinforcements, but Vanney's not even making best use of the limited resources available.
    Well said.

  20. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    This is the thing for me: Creavalle came on in the 83rd minute. At the moment, TFC was leading 4-3. Creavalle came in to replace Jackson -- which may have made sense, not sure, but Jackson was running lots and probably needed a break. Creavalle could have been used to shore up the defensive midfield, run like crazy to pressure the NY midfield, and protect the lead.

    However, Vanney didn't put Creavalle in at midfield, even though Creavalle has often played quite well there. Instead, he put him in at RB, where he's screwed up numerous times previously.

    As a result, Vanney also shifted Morrow from RB (where he was playing OK) to LB. Although that's Morrow's natural position, he's also mentioned in interviews, that the hardest thing about playing both LB & RB is switching between them. To do it for the last 7 minutes of the game, w/o a real need for that, is crazy IMO.

    At the same time, Vanney moved Lovitz forward from LB, where he was OK but not spectacular, and into midfield -- but further unsettled the defense for no real reason.

    Plus Perquis was subbed out in the 76th minute due to injury, so the defense was already jumbled (and it was never great to begin with). Add to that the scrambling of the wingbacks, and you've mixed up 3/4 of your defense for the last few minutes of the game. And Creavalle gifts NY a goal.

    Finally, Vanney only made 2 of the available 3 subs, and one of those was forced (Perquis). WTF -- why don't you make all three subs, first to protect the lead; or to protect the tie & regain the lead?

    In no way am I big on firing coaches willy nilly, but stuff like that really pisses me off. Sure we need defensive reinforcements, but Vanney's not even making best use of the limited resources available.
    Can't argue with any of this except for maybe saying Creavalle played "quite well" in midfield. I'd say he was okay or acceptable in MF but not good. But your point is bang on; that draw is on Vanney by way of Creavalle. He really did set us up to lose that one outright. Why does he always get a free pass by the press on these gaffes? Never gets asked.

  21. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Can't argue with any of this except for maybe saying Creavalle played "quite well" in midfield. I'd say he was okay or acceptable in MF but not good. But your point is bang on; that draw is on Vanney by way of Creavalle. He really did set us up to lose that one outright. Why does he always get a free pass by the press on these gaffes? Never gets asked.
    So few beat reporters, theyre afraid of losing access I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    So few beat reporters, theyre afraid of losing access I suppose.
    So, let me get this straight:

    A guy who actively suggested that Nelsen wasn't good enough and a guy who actively said that Winter wasn't good enough are going to not say the same thing about Vanney cause they are concerned about access?!?!?!?!

    I hated Larson during Winter's time and was disappointed in Molinaro when Nelsen was around. But maybe, you know, nobody but some Italian focused dude who doesn't cover TFC actually thinks Vanney should be fired based on ...you know...the fact that Vanney shouldn't be fired based on an impartial view?

    Sometimes, the journo's don't agree with a supporter opinion (one which is in the minority btw - you'd be hard pressed to find people seriously vexed about Vanny outside of the core supporters) cause that opinion is just flat wrong. They are paid to be impartial but there is a history among them of calling a bad coach a bad coach.


    ************


    And, again, if you people want Vanney fired, you would want almost every single coach in the East fired.


    Cause there ain't much difference in results right now. And, heck, when the Vanney Firewatch was started, Bruce Arena and Vermes both had a bad streak going. And....wow...look who's doing well now?

    Ya'll think Sigi Schmid should be fired right now?!?!?!? Seriously, if you think we are doing crap, take a look at Seattle.


    Do people on here honestly think that other teams don't make stupid game play decisions, or don't go on slides or don't mess up?


    Did you not see NYCFC take off one of its starting CD's at half time cause he was a COMPLETE DUFUS!?!?!?!?!

    "FIRE JASON KREIS CAUSE HE PUT IN A PLAYER NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND PROBABLY COST THEM A WIN WITH THAT DECISION"

    Funny, I don't hear that from NYCFC supporters.

    ***

    PAH....given our current record, its WAY too early to be contemplating that sort of an upheaval.


    Players do stupid things on other teams - LOTS of stupid things. And those stupid things cost teams points.

    The object of this game is to take advantage of more stupid things done by your opponent and to make others do more stupid things then your guys do. That's why our defence needs to be fixed, and by all accounts by the media, that is going to happen.


    Firing Vanny now would be an Anselmi move. A foolish move. And a move that would more likely cause us to fall OUT of the playoffs then get in.


    Ya'll want to continue to be the laughing stock of this league? To be considered a joke franchise that can't ever be taken seriously in what it does?

    Then fire Vanney.

    *********

    All the TV journos around this league and a lot of the press ones and the MLSsoccer.com staff got together before the season for a couple of days of meetings to talk about this season.

    And MLS did a thing where they asked journos what they thought of each team, in the form of "Team most likely to..."

    You know what many of them said about Toronto


    "TEAM MOST LIKELY TO FIRE ITS MANAGER FIRST."


    Ya'll want to continue to be the butt of jokes around this league, to not be taken seriously?!??!?!


    At the end of the season, if we underachieve, Vanney goes. Until then, we play on.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-13-2015 at 11:12 PM.

  23. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    So, let me get this straight:

    A guy who actively suggested that Nelsen wasn't good enough and a guy who actively said that Winter wasn't good enough are going to not say the same thing about Vanney cause they are concerned about access?!?!?!?!

    I hated Larson during Winter's time and was disappointed in Molinaro when Nelsen was around. But maybe, you know, nobody but some dude who doesn't actually cover TFC actually thinks Vanney should be fired based on ...you know...the fact that Vanney shouldn't be fired?

    Sometimes, the journo's don't agree with a supporter opinion (one which is in the minority btw - you'd be hard pressed to find people seriously vexed about Vanny outside of the core supporters) cause that opinion is just flat wrong. They are paid to be impartial but there is a history among them of calling a bad coach a bad coach.
    Where did you get the idea from directly above that someone, or a journo, should think or suggest that Vanney should be fired? I think Vanney should be asked some tough questions about strange decisions. I've thought the same about many previous coaches: certain things don't seem to make sense, but nobody asks tough questions about them.

  24. #534
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    OgtheDim.
    Bam.
    close thread.

  25. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    So, let me get this straight:

    A guy who actively suggested that Nelsen wasn't good enough and a guy who actively said that Winter wasn't good enough are going to not say the same thing about Vanney cause they are concerned about access?!?!?!?!

    I hated Larson during Winter's time and was disappointed in Molinaro when Nelsen was around. But maybe, you know, nobody but some Italian focused dude who doesn't cover TFC actually thinks Vanney should be fired based on ...you know...the fact that Vanney shouldn't be fired based on an impartial view?

    Sometimes, the journo's don't agree with a supporter opinion (one which is in the minority btw - you'd be hard pressed to find people seriously vexed about Vanny outside of the core supporters) cause that opinion is just flat wrong. They are paid to be impartial but there is a history among them of calling a bad coach a bad coach.


    ************


    And, again, if you people want Vanney fired, you would want almost every single coach in the East fired.


    Cause there ain't much difference in results right now. And, heck, when the Vanney Firewatch was started, Bruce Arena and Vermes both had a bad streak going. And....wow...look who's doing well now?

    Ya'll think Sigi Schmid should be fired right now?!?!?!? Seriously, if you think we are doing crap, take a look at Seattle.


    Do people on here honestly think that other teams don't make stupid game play decisions, or don't go on slides or don't mess up?


    Did you not see NYCFC take off one of its starting CD's at half time cause he was a COMPLETE DUFUS!?!?!?!?!

    "FIRE JASON KREIS CAUSE HE PUT IN A PLAYER NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND PROBABLY COST THEM A WIN WITH THAT DECISION"

    Funny, I don't hear that from NYCFC supporters.

    ***

    PAH....given our current record, its WAY too early to be contemplating that sort of an upheaval.


    Players do stupid things on other teams - LOTS of stupid things. And those stupid things cost teams points.

    The object of this game is to take advantage of more stupid things done by your opponent and to make others do more stupid things then your guys do. That's why our defence needs to be fixed, and by all accounts by the media, that is going to happen.


    Firing Vanny now would be an Anselmi move. A foolish move. And a move that would more likely cause us to fall OUT of the playoffs then get in.


    Ya'll want to continue to be the laughing stock of this league? To be considered a joke franchise that can't ever be taken seriously in what it does?

    Then fire Vanney.

    *********

    All the TV journos around this league and a lot of the press ones and the MLSsoccer.com staff got together before the season for a couple of days of meetings to talk about this season.

    And MLS did a thing where they asked journos what they thought of each team, in the form of "Team most likely to..."

    You know what many of them said about Toronto


    "TEAM MOST LIKELY TO FIRE ITS MANAGER FIRST."


    Ya'll want to continue to be the butt of jokes around this league, to not be taken seriously?!??!?!


    At the end of the season, if we underachieve, Vanney goes. Until then, we play on.
    Since you didn't respond to my original question, I'll react again to your edited post which got alot longer: who exactly is this in response to? Who are "you people" that want Vanney fired? I didn't read through all the in-game comments, but I did search through most of the post-game comments. ronzilla is one guy who said he wants Vanney fired. Couchy81 also said it, but that was 6 pages ago. Otherwise nobody else in the last 6 pages.

    You seem to be reacting to posters above on this page? I don't want Vanney fired. I want him to stop making repeated bone-headed decisions (in between plenty of good decisions), when there are other options available, as detailed above. I also want journos to ask tough questions when things just don't make sense (e.g., Creavalle back in at RB; making subs late or not at all). Other people above said similar things.

    Sunday was a pretty good game. Unkel pissed me off -- 4 penalties??? The tiny field was annoying. I thought TFC's lineup and play was quite good. The defense is often frustrating. (Goalie saves a PK; defenders don't get to the rebound; Perquis deflects the resulting shot into net off his hand -- that kind of frustrating shit.) Other than that the team & Vanney were doing quite well, given missing starters etc. Then Vanney messes up the defense in the last 10 minutes -- makes me want to tear my hair out even though I don't have much left. Doesn't make me want Vanney fired -- but those things surely don't help his standing with the big-spending bosses. I really want Vanney & the team to get things right though, because I'm sick as hell of the never-ending coach & player carousel.

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    I dunno about that whole long post but Larson is clearly cozy with those guys and doesn't wanna ruin his weekly date a with Bez and Lieweke.
    Also nobody said anything about demanding Vanney to be fired...its about putting him on the spot and asking him to explain his persistence with Creavalle (and Findley and subs and etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
    Wait What? Canada is going to beat Costa Rica, Piette is suspended so Oso or Teibert will be in to feed Larin and Akindele and the reds will come through with 3 points and move on to the next round

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gringo Starr again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    I dunno about that whole long post but Larson is clearly cozy with those guys and doesn't wanna ruin his weekly date a with Bez and Lieweke.
    Also nobody said anything about demanding Vanney to be fired...its about putting him on the spot and asking him to explain his persistence with Creavalle (and Findley and subs and etc)

    I don't listen or read the interviews after since most of it is plastic call and answer but I see why Vanney would need to answer for the Creavalle sub but Findley has been given a couple of chances. That's it. Before it was all Moore. I suppose if the question was if he was going back to Moore or not but I'm not damning Vanney for trying Findley a couple of times before going track to Moore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I don't listen or read the interviews after since most of it is plastic call and answer but I see why Vanney would need to answer for the Creavalle sub but Findley has been given a couple of chances. That's it. Before it was all Moore. I suppose if the question was if he was going back to Moore or not but I'm not damning Vanney for trying Findley a couple of times before going track to Moore.
    Someone said it above and I agree...that match was begging for Luke Moore. Before his personal leave he was working quite well with Gio...maybe he had tweaked an injury? We dunno..it would be nice if the reporters could ask some useful questions.

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    Didn't see it mentioned in this thread but I saw this on MLS Instant Replay...

    https://youtu.be/tRaQEKZXpoI?t=5m35s

    Free kick goal may have (has been called before) disallowed for infringement/obstruction on the wall. I think Konopka should've had that, regardless.

 

 

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