Game 17: TFC Goes to the Bronx - NYC vs. TFC Sunday July 12 3 pm TSN

[OgtheDim]

1 win by Montreal and they will be exactly tied with us with half the payroll, what's your point.

How many times will losing/tieing to an expansion bottom league team will be acceptable and lets move on?

everyone is tied with us at 24 points so we are not exactly in 3rd.

2 or 3 losses and we quickly can be in 6th.

I know the sky isn't falling yet but come on

Context:

Next week we get both Osorio and Morgan back. Defence needs fixing. Hopefully Perquis plays cause Hagglund and Zaveletta at the back is just asking for it. Creavalle should not play RB again.

We play Philly, at home, who have been on a run of late but are missing their stud CD - Edu will be suspended.

And then we go play Columbus who are like us, bobbing around with some great pieces on the field but not able to put it all together.

And then we get back Bradley and Altidore back in time to visit NER who are imploding.

[OgtheDim]

Where I am questioning Vanney, apart from the obvious "Why Creavalle when you've got Bloom on the bench?" is that game was just SCREAMING for Luke Moore.


I get it. Every coach has his favourites, and its obvious that Creavalle and Findley are Vanney's. BUT, the guy has to learn to get over those spots. Pick the right guys to fit the tactics and the competition.


*******

On another note, although I enjoy Taylor Twellman's insight, I was EXTREMELY frustrated with how many times subs were not noted and even yellow cards were missed. Unfortunately, the Sky feed was 2 minutes behind and the TSN sound was awful.

[Marc"2L"]

I think Philly has trap written all over it.

Ill be at the game so, we'll be lucky if we get 1.

[bimmer]

Konopka and Creavalle cost us the win today as far as I'm concerned. Hope to see Bendik back in net next match.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

No it has everything to do with Giovinco. IMO.

This!

[Blizzard]

This makes me think of the old NASL. Play Ball!

.... the big difference being they actually put grass on top of the basepath soil. They didn't used to do that.

[Redcoe15]

LOL. If he gets results then it's Giovinco, if Vannee loses then it's his fault. Fucking hilarious.

Yup! Today's match was an example of that.

[shwade]

LOL. If he gets results then it's Giovinco, if Vannee loses then it's his fault. Fucking hilarious.

Nice try but not really. If we lose and seba does all he can who is it on? If we win and it's all seba then who is it on?
Seba is the team.

[Blizzard]

I'm dead serious when I'm thinking that instead of playing with Creavalle on the field we'd be better off playing with 10 men.

Ya, well, at least that cross would have gone over the end line and we'd have had a goal kick instead of giving NYC that gift. He couldn't have put in a better centering pass if he tried. What was Warren thinking? Truly, truly horrible.

If he stays on the roster, he cannot be allowed in the back four ever again.

[PopePouri]

Nice try but not really. If we lose and seba does all he can who is it on? If we win and it's all seba then who is it on?
Seba is the team.

Fair enough. Looking at that goals you're right. For his first goal, Seba's run managed to draw the penalty. For his second goal, it was an great backheel from Seba to get Seba in on goal, and then it was an excellent over the top pass from Seba to Seba out wide. Excellent vision to see Seba alone in the box for Seba to chip the goalkeeper.

[Couchy81]

Yup! Today's match was an example of that.

Yep. 4-3 lead with 7 minutes to go until Warren "The Wall" Creavalle was subbed in, in a brilliant maneouver to shore up our defence. After last week's performance it was a solid bet.

[MightyDM]

Bingo


Its MLS stuff like this happens all the time but the trajectory is up.....and next week we get Osorio and Morgan back which should steady the RB/LB area and will push Cheyrou back.


Defence needs fixing. Need a decent CD as Perquis isn't enough (and if he's out next week....well.....)

"All the time"???????

when has TFC EVER had either a hat trick or a 4-4 tie, let alone in the same game?????

[MightyDM]

Konopka looks like he should be playing for ISIS FC and not a pro team that has players earning millions per year. When it comes to Creavalle words just fail me at this point. I wanted to permanently bench him after the first game in Vancouver, meanwhile it's mid-July and this fucking pylon is still spoiling my weekends. It's utterly unforgivable to let this fuckwit anywhere near the field, nevermind actually placing him at RB. As for Gio the only player I'd trade him for is Messi.

what is it that Konopka did that was that bad? Aside from save a penalty? In my view he should have had the first one, but lots of goalies wouldn't have got a hand on it.

[MightyDM]

Well a crazy game indeed. Giovinco is just a terrific player and his performance should not be lost in today's game. We continue to have problems on the back line and that includes the goalie. I believe Konopka has come back to earth. On the first goal it was a good shot but he has to make that save. His feet are too slow. On the rebound from the PK no way that should go in. At this point I believe he has played himself out of the number 1 position. I think the problem TFC has is the same as the Leafs. We have 2 number two goalies and not a number 1. Craevalle is playing out of position and this has got to stop. Vanney has been trying to make this work and it's not. Haglund is a terrific kid but is not professional material. In the summer window we need to get another quality CB that is must. In the longer term we need to rethink out goalie situation. I know that is a lot of concern about Vanney and some of it well justifies but we have changed coaches too many times. Let him finish out the season and then reevaluate him.

If you watch the replay of the second goal it takes a wicked deflection of Perquis' hand. Can't blame Konopka for that. And he did save the penalty. How many did Frei, a very good MLS goalie, ever save for us?

[James17930]

Didn't catch the game but just saw the highlights ... I can imagine what it must have been like to watch it – looked nuts.

I'm actually kind of rooting against Canada in the Costa Rica match so that we can get Oso and Morgan back, and so Floro hopefully gets fired. Somehow I think that would have a greater benefit to Canadian soccer than us making it through to the next round.

[MightyDM]

Yep. 4-3 lead with 7 minutes to go until Warren "The Wall" Creavalle was subbed in, in a brilliant maneouver to shore up our defence. After last week's performance it was a solid bet.

yes..

[OgtheDim]

"All the time"???????

when has TFC EVER had either a hat trick or a 4-4 tie, let alone in the same game?????

I was responding to a post which said

Well we were down 2-0. A point is decent in light of that.

In MLS, comebacks like we saw today happen a lot. Nature of the beast in a cap league - defence will always be the thing to cheap out on. Its just that our offensive capabilities have been so bad for so long we didn't see us coming back ever. (well apart from a certain cup match)

[ronzilla]

You can't blame Konopka for the past 2 games since the defense has been in shambles and vlanneys brilliant idea to move Cheyrou up front has contributed to conceding 8 goals in 2 games.

Aside from Seba stealing the show, Jackson and Delgado also played great today.

[James17930]

Also - not surprised to see NYCFC attendance embarrassing the Red Bulls. I know MLS thinks this 'rivalry' will benefit both clubs but I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Bulls die out in a few years, despite their swanky stadium.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

"All the time"???????

when has TFC EVER had either a hat trick or a 4-4 tie, let alone in the same game?????

HAHAHA this has been my frame of mind too, we got a point away from home, scored 4 goals and almost won.
Remember when that was something we never bothered to dream about?

[Blixa]

LOL. If he gets results then it's Giovinco, if Vannee loses then it's his fault. Fucking hilarious.

Giovinco is doing his job. Vanney has fuck all to do with what Gio does on the field and at this point Vanney's job is not to squander whatever Gio achieves game in, game out. Today was a perfect example of Vanney fucking up big time.

[jazzy]

Btw Vanney is a composed well rehearsed coach. He has a goal to win as we all do . It is crazy to fire him , won't happen any way . BUT is it not perplexing that he keeps his faith in Crevalle , Findley .....even Moore....? He certainly is stubborn . His substitution today led to the winning goal but he is a good coach and of course like it or not is staying . The British announcers had it right in today's game and as much as they actually found the game highly entertaining , they were perplexed on what Crevalle was actually trying to do on that winning no look 'pass' .....and said he was simply falling apart on the field . And our coaches can't see that . Thankfully for him he's not Canadian or he'd never get into another game . I think the only frustration today was that NYC didn't beat us we lost the game with horrible decisions in between individual brilliant efforts .

[ronzilla]

[SenorDingDong]

giovinco is a machine. His drive to win is inspiring. I hope it starts rubbing off on some of these guys.

creavalle has to be benched. all he had to do was literally nothing on that last play. just don't touch the ball... what the fuck.

[__wowza]

LOL. If he gets results then it's Giovinco, if Vannee loses then it's his fault. Fucking hilarious.

Yup! Today's match was an example of that.

like i said against LA, normally a win is on the players and a loss is on the coach.
it's just something you do. you don't throw your players under the bus.
a coach would be the first person to admit that.

however, a tie/loss normally amplifies a coaches weaknesses. the last game we lost was a matter of smart coaching. they put pressure on cheyrou because of our backlines over-reliance of passing to him under pressure (stats will back this up), and they also tripled up on giovinco because of our penchant for continuously building from him which was evident by us literally passing around seba until he could free up (which didn't happen). vanney didn't adjust at any point, not even at the half, nor did he settle his players. today you could look at NYCFC and say "this is on kries, because he didn't adjust his backline to cover giovinco's runs. he either got caught offside or had a shot on net".

you could name names all you want, individual efforts impact the play as much as a coaches tactics. when you're in the trenches and you get completely flanked, you wouldn't flip around to your privates and say "how the hell could you let that happen!?". it'd be on whoever is in charge. it wouldn't be the players initiative to disobey their coach and move independent of the rest of the team. that's a shit show waiting to happen.

so yeah. this wasn't on the players, it's on the coach.


EDIT: having said that, i'm not saying we should fire him, but he does have his weaknesses.
on the flip side, it was his call to have seba hug the defensive line which ended up paying off, but no one credits him for that.

[bimmer]

what is it that Konopka did that was that bad? Aside from save a penalty? In my view he should have had the first one, but lots of goalies wouldn't have got a hand on it.

He should have saved the first one for sure imo. I would disagree with you there, I think the average MLS keeper saves that more often than not.

The second he was unlucky, but letting a slow, bouncing ball through near post from that angle is absolutely inexcusable. He just doesn't have the reaction speed to make those kinds of saves, which I guess isn't exactly his fault, just means he's not good enough.

The penalty was another display of his terrible decision making. He should know his speed vs Villa's and should have realized quickly that he had no chance at that ball. He also should have realized that Hagglund was right on Villa ready to cut off any angles for a pass back into the middle of the box so all he had to do to mitigate the risk was to protect his near post. Instead, he goes full wannabe Neuer, barges into Villa, and gives him an easy cop out penalty (also should have realized that Unkel was going to call that 10 out of 10 times).

Konopka is not a good keeper. He makes poor decisions frequently and doesn't have the athleticism/talent to make up for those mistakes. No way he should be our starting keeper going forward.

[Red CB Toronto]

Seba is on fire, simple as that, was at the game today at Yankee Stadium. Week in week out he does it all, scores, passes, assists, makes moves that leave me in amazement. Even though I love The General and what he brings to the pitch, the atomic ant is the best that has ever graced the TFC badge.

[stevep]

that crevalle play could have cost tfc first round bye in the playoffs.

[CBTFC]

that crevalle play could have cost tfc first round bye in the playoffs.

Whether or not we secure a first round bye, or even a playoff spot, does not come down to one single play by one single player.

It's like how every week someone says the next game is a "must win".

[General Woolfe]

That should be Creavalle's last game in red shirt, end of story!

He destroyed what was a tremendous fightback from our boys with a stupid schoolboy mistake. WTF is he doing playing the ball across the face of goal in a situation like that? It really beggars belief. Ive have enough of him and if Vanney cant see what a liability he is to this team its going to end up costing him his job. I know he thinks he is an experienced MLS player but his mistakes are costing us points

Another tremendous performance from Giovinco today. This man who is pretty much carrying the team single-handedly with the Gold Cup absences. What must the wee man be thinking after putting on a performance like that only to see a clown like Creavalle f-up all his good work. I hope he gave him a kick up the ass and a good rollicking in the dressing room after the game for letting us down like that

NYCFC's third goal was never a penalty although Konopka gave the ref an easy decision to make. We should be thinking about bringing back Bendick now, as Konopka is more prone to giving a howler. Although Bendick has his weaknesses, I feel he's the more secure of the two.

Another good game from Delgado today and we are looking pretty healthy in the standings even if it is down to having games in hand