In the last 6 games.....

[Jack]

Ok, I think we took this thread off topic. I suppose we can always count on Pookie to bang his single table, no playoffs drum, but this is about our latest run and whether we can sustain it.

Ensco, I think the thing that has been good about our positive run has been the fact that our supporting cast has been more solid. Of course we are winning because of Giovinco, Bradley and Altidore's performances. That's why we got them. But we are also winning because Vanney has found a formation that clicks and the fullbacks (part of the supporting cast, right?) are playing well. Cheyrou is looking very good as the deep-lying midfielder and Perquis and Zavaleta are both getting more comfortable. Grinding out that point in NE and riding the early lead all the way through against Portland are positive signs.

That said, DC with no Bradley is going to be a good test for us.

[Steelers7]

Each win on the road is countered by a loss at home. If you lose one at home - you have to win one on the road just to break even.

The topic has always been of interest to me: why is home field advantage such a factor (in soccer especially)?

Thinking about it, there's really little that would suggest it should be more advantageous for a soccer player than any other sport.
Baseball: you have different field dimensions (outfield) and wall height.
Hockey and basketball are both indoors with fans literally inches away from you at the glass or feet on the court - because it's indoor, it can be louder and much more of a situation where fans are "hovering" over the court/ice/
Football and soccer: essentially all teams have the same size field, and fans are kept at a certain distance. both play on turf, real or artificial. Football does have a domed stadium advantage over soccer, but not that many.

If anything - I would have said that soccer would have had the least amount of home field advantages.


After watching soccer and sports in general, my thoughts pointed towards a psychological reason for the differences. No other sport has away teams going to play for a tie. Nobody that's a champion or successful in life no matter what you do achieves greatness by settling for a tie. This in itself - play for 1 point and not 3 points - can obviously have a huge impact on performance, and lead to a massive shift in statistics that point out that MLS home teams have a much better chance of winning.

Hockey teams go to other cities and try to win.
Baseball, you always aim to win at least 2 in a 3 game series (home or away)
Football, you have to win on the road.
Basketball, you don't have ties - you have to win on the road.

All other North American team sport either play a "best of" series, or one game knockout. You have to win. If you're not higher ranked - you have to win at least once on the road.

There's no way I can say what I need to say in a short post, let alone provide stats, and all the other yada yada that people will demand as proof.

My opinions - and that might be all that this is - is that soccer teams simply have a home field advantage because of psychology, the attitude of going on the road not to win.

Good points.
I just find MLS so spread out for travel so I think that has the biggest advantage for the home team.
Just last year alone TFC went West 3 times to LA/Seattle/RSL, this year same 3 plus Vancouver. Ideally, since they are rotating the schedule by the looks of it to alleviate travel TFC should get 2 of the above at home and 2 on the road each season moving forward, until expansion happens where my guess is that it would be like the EPL, one home, one away.
Soccer's/Futbols point structure just works really well where when you win it has a significant value especially against a conference opponent.

American football is still the top due to limited games (16) as all count but soccer is next for sure.
Hockey would also be better if it adopted a similar point structure to soccer, right now it sucks. I'm Still trying to figure out how you get a point when you lose lol

[Globetrotter]

^
The size of North America is the same regardless of MLS, MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL (NCAA for that matter too). Baseball could be argued that due to the number of games and bouncing all over the continent has the most - but all teams in each league would be affected. I think travel might have something to do with it, but really I see that more as a neutral variable.

Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

[Steelers7]

^
The size of North America is the same regardless of MLS, MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL (NCAA for that matter too). Baseball could be argued that due to the number of games and bouncing all over the continent has the most - but all teams in each league would be affected. I think travel might have something to do with it, but really I see that more as a neutral variable.

Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

100% on the first part, its just the way each one is structured for each leagues schedule.
For hockey most teams like the Leafs or Habs or Sens will get a 3 game road trip through California so they don't bounce back and forth
MLB is the same for the most part where the Jays will play the Angels then go to Seattle.
the NFL the schedule rotates so it works out in a wash depending on the season.
MLS as it stands could be better due to the amount of games teams can have (CCL or US Open Cup) and the potential for extended travel on short weeks

The better team should win regardless of being home or away. But the beautiful thing about sports is that it starts 0-0 and anyone can win.

[dupont]

Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

[Steelers7]

I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

It does seem that way except for TFC.
Look at last game when (was it) Morgan got drilled in the mush and the Ref called a PK no hesitation. Haven't seen the replay to know but it looked live like he got it in the teeth and it was a soft call.
But how many times does that happen when its TFC and the ref turns a blind eye?

[Globetrotter]

I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

Yes it's a good point, and there could be statistics that are very lopsided one way or the other - and I'm not sure there will be any way to conclusively blame the crowd, but it is indeed a factor. That said, all officials across all sports are in very tough positions to make calls that the home crowd might not be supportive of. Where soccer currently has an edge - which could lean to a home field advantage if all other factors hold true - is that it does not have instant replay. Adding replays on incidents with penalties/cards would do wonders to clean this up (thereby reducing any perceived advantage to refs giving favorable calls to the home team).

[jloome]

And NYCFC would be on a fast path to the MLS2 right now. Now way the league is going to let that happen. Folks can make all the pro-relegation arguments they want, but no way the MLS are going to let it's crown jewels end up in MLS2. Can you imagine the LA Galaxy or the Sounder having a bad year and getting relegated?

Can you imagine all their fans deserting en masse if they did? Because they wouldn't. Not if the atmosphere is right and the team is good. They'd wait for them to win the second division and be promoted the next year. And in the meantime, the end of the year would mean something to the teams near the bottom of the table.

You're also assuming straight relegation; instead, you do it like Mexico, where the threat of it exists more than the reality because other factors (such as a two-game playoff with the team expected to come up, min. stadium size etc) are considered as well.

Also consider that these guys don't have much to lose; as long as div2 teams are part of any tv deal as a subsidiary and still get profits, the losses are minimalized by the incredibly low salary structury of mls. If you then also balance MLS2 by having its salary structure at about one-half to two-thirds of MLS, you protect the hierarchy while also making second division games exciting, by drawing more outside talent.

It's certainly doable. One other thing: eventually, most business models still have to consider the customer and increasingly, people want it. Even if MLS is what gets them into soccer, they go from there and look at what's happening elsewhere, where late-season races matter.

Oops: Sorry Jack, didn't see that until just now.

Maintaining the run depends on keeping people healthy. Well, by people, I mean one person. Maybe two. We'll see this week, I guess.

[OgtheDim]

Can you imagine all their fans deserting en masse if they did? Because they wouldn't.

Never underestimate the desire of New York people to choose the #1 product over the #2.

[Auzzy]

Maybe someone wants to create a pro/rel & playoffs/no-playoffs discussion thread...