Page 6 of 58 FirstFirst ... 23456789101656 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 180 of 1738
  1. #151
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    Instead of focusing on the negatives of Vanney I encourage you to look at the positives, there are quite a few.
    I asked for that in my post above:
    The only argument I ever see from his proponents are to keep him because they don't want change. Let's have a few posts with some solid reasons why we should keep him beyond not liking change or because he's only had 20 matches in charge. Let's have some meat & potatoes, show us why we should be optimistic posts. I'm listening.
    So let's hear them.

  2. #152
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    116
    Posts
    21,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Conversely, what I hear from the "Vanney Out" crowd is variations on "We should be better."

    About as deep.


    ********

    Stuff have been raised - you disagree.


    • Attack is ticking along. (that is the toughest thing to get right)
    • DP's are happy.
    • Injuries lessened.
    • There's a plan.
    • Actually using analytics.
    • Players have bought into the system.
    • Morgan refreshed (i.e. he can coach individuals)
    • There's no selfish a - holes on this team right now.


    Results - we are in a playoff spot having only played 1 home game all season


    Aways to go yet.

  3. #153
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Section 119
    Posts
    11,698
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The squad is unbalanced, and we have had long term injuries to two of our starters on the back line. Although we lack width up front, we have looked solid on the attack for the most part.

    I think many of the goals we have conceded have been the result of individual errors in the defensive third of pitch, primarily due to defenders playing out of position and inexperience in some cases.

    I'm willing to give Vanney a pass for now. He hasn't had much to work with in terms of reliable defenders.

  4. #154
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,424
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Conversely, what I hear from the "Vanney Out" crowd is variations on "We should be better."

    About as deep.


    ********

    Stuff have been raised - you disagree.


    • Attack is ticking along. (that is the toughest thing to get right)
    • DP's are happy.
    • Injuries lessened.
    • There's a plan.
    • Actually using analytics.
    • Players have bought into the system.
    • Morgan refreshed (i.e. he can coach individuals)
    • There's no selfish a - holes on this team right now.


    Results - we are in a playoff spot having only played 1 home game all season


    Aways to go yet.
    I'll add to this.

    + Willingness to change tactics and experiment to get the right fit for the team (not stuck in his ways)
    + Chemistry moving forward (when playing the aggressive way he wants to play) has produced the best TFC product I've ever seen
    + Good substitutions and tactical changes during games (ie Morrow to RB after the Hagglund blunders)
    + Good job identifying which players are performing better.. IE Findlay over Osorio earlier this year. This has no resulted in Osorio realizing he needs to do more and thus he's starting to help the team more.
    + Considering no RB and the fact that we were missing so many defenders we came away with a 3-4 record ON THE ROAD. The most we've ever won in a SEASON is 4.
    + Even in the games where we've done horrendously during say the first half.. we've battled back and nearly taken a point back. His team is working for him, they just continue to make individual errors.. NOT the coaches fault.

  5. #155
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Attack is ticking along. (that is the toughest thing to get right)
    True but expected with the pieces we brought in. This type of talent could have scored for Preki or even Mariner. Also should be noted most goals coming on the counter.

    DP's are happy
    True but they all were at this time last season too.

    Injuries lessened.
    Similar but probably true. I think Vanney's academy training make his sessions easier on players. Nelsen was probably more like Preki in that regard.

    There's a plan.
    This is a theory. No actual consistent evidence seen yet. After 20 matches. Just talk.

    Actually using analytics.
    Which is great but it hasn't reaped any rewards yet but good that it's used.

    Players have bought into the system.
    Assuming there is one. I am sure when Vanney is sacked we'll hear the same refrain about no tactics, etc.

    Morgan refreshed (i.e. he can coach individuals)
    This would be my biggest plus for him. It also goes back to his experience of being an academy manager and probably also because his demeanor is similar to public school librarian (ie. less fear to fail). That works great on young guys but can have the reverse effect on older players and it may be doing just that.

    There's no selfish a - holes on this team right now.
    That'd be more on Bez than Vanney. Bez getting all the blame for assembling this roster so he deserves credit for getting better personalities in too.

    Results - we are in a playoff spot having only played 1 home game all season
    As you said, aways to go yet and we were in a similar position to last year (but worse). The caveat on this year is that we're in the East and beat two of the worst teams in the conference to be in that spot. It would almost be harder to miss the playoffs this year than make it.

  6. #156
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Willingness to change tactics and experiment to get the right fit for the team (not stuck in his ways)
    This is a plus. Better than any manager we've had since Cummins. That being said any good manager would be willing to change tactics.

    Chemistry moving forward (when playing the aggressive way he wants to play) has produced the best TFC product I've ever seen
    True but again should be expected with the talent that is available regardless of coaching.

    Good job identifying which players are performing better.. IE Findlay over Osorio earlier this year. This has no resulted in Osorio realizing he needs to do more and thus he's starting to help the team more.
    Somewhat yes but still starts Findley only to pull him in the 50 minute range. The Creavalle experiment went on far too long too. Mixed in this regard.

    Considering no RB and the fact that we were missing so many defenders we came away with a 3-4 record ON THE ROAD
    Same as I said above. Full marks for Vancouver and being competitive in others but the wins came against poor opponents. After 8 years I am done with moral victories and being happy in making matches close.

    Even in the games where we've done horrendously during say the first half.. we've battled back and nearly taken a point back. His team is working for him, they just continue to make individual errors.. NOT the coaches fault.
    This is true as well. They do appear to fight for him but they may also be fighting for each other. Vanney doesn't seem 'rah rah' in the half time speech department to me so Bradley may have a part in that too. Individual errors are not the coaches fault at all but a good coach identifies the weak spots and adjusts tactics to compensate, especially in game. We don't do that enough. Also our set piece defending is very poor. That is on the manager.

  7. #157
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think they fight for him at all. They're out on cakewalks for half the games.

  8. #158
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,424
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The same way that people are saying all the blame goes on the coach rather the individual lapses, I don't think you can say that the team is only clicking because of the players they have. Yes the players are much better, but they're also playing within the framework and system he has laid out for them.

    Up until that Houston game Findlay was leagues better than Osorio has been this season. Interestingly enough whoscored rated Findlay better than Osorio in that game too and he got subbed off.. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/914934/Live

    It doesn't matter who you beat whether they're poor or not, you still need to win the game. 3-4 is a fantastic road record. If we somehow beat NER this weekend we'll be 4-4 on the road. That's insane for this team at this point in the season.

    As per your last statement, I don't get it. First you agree with my initial statement (vanney adjusts tactics) and backed it up with your own comment later (findlay subbed off) and in this final one you're stating the opposite again. Vanney realized that Findlay, while good add holding the ball up at times and making good runs into the box wasn't doing much to help the midfield against Houston and so he made a switch both in personnel and tactics by bringing Oso. That helped the team out very well and it was done nice and early so there was lots of time to get back into the game. Wonderful. Set piece defending is bad, yes I'll agree. This has always been an issue for this team and may just be a MLS talent level problem. Granted we've had mistakes by experienced guys lately too.

    We all want this team to be successful, but this is a difficult league to do that in with all the cap constraints. We're fortunate that we have owners that are willing to get players at the very top level, but we need to bide our time to either develop good depth or continue to shop around for guys to fill those voids.

    I think Bez has done a tremendous job getting the players he has so far, but he's got lots of work left. We can all agree that getting additional defensive help and a winger/cdm is what this team desperately needs. But to think that we need yet another management change while we're working to create an identity with the current group of players is mind boggling to me. The fans are this teams own worst enemy. We seem to want instant gratification while not realizing that it doesn't work that way in this league. We know constant turnover is what continues to take us backwards yet we demand it every single freaking year. It's unbelievable.

  9. #159
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    We The North
    Posts
    7,042
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    The squad is unbalanced, and we have had long term injuries to two of our starters on the back line. Although we lack width up front, we have looked solid on the attack for the most part.

    I think many of the goals we have conceded have been the result of individual errors in the defensive third of pitch, primarily due to defenders playing out of position and inexperience in some cases.

    I'm willing to give Vanney a pass for now. He hasn't had much to work with in terms of reliable defenders.
    Even at full strength, this team is weak in the backline and wing while still figuring out where/how to play Bradley on the field. This is our GM fault for not fixing this issue.

    I personally believe we just need veteran coach who commands respect in the locker room since I feel Vanney isn't "respected" by players (especially from Bradley who I feel is running this club). Tactic wise, Vanney seems like he's learning from his mistakes, but how long can we wait for Vanney to learn his trade and be successful?

  10. #160
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    We're fortunate that we have owners that are willing to get players at the very top level
    But never managers

  11. #161
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    116
    Posts
    21,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I don't think they fight for him at all. They're out on cakewalks for half the games.
    Ur joking right? You can't see the effort they are putting in all over the pitch at all?

    These guys are running miles more then we are used to and you think they are loafing it around?

    Ur not seeing the covering for defenders who go forward? The way Morrow and Morgan are using the sideline as a 3rd defender?

    Ur not seeing Giovinco busting his gut to get an end ball? Ur not seeing Jozy go out way wide and back to defend?

    Ur not noticing the total absence of anybody doing a Defoe with hands on their hips stewing over not getting the service they prefer?



    *********


    Hey, I can blame these guys for not being good enough but not trying or working isn't part of it.

  12. #162
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Ur not noticing the total absence of anybody doing a Defoe with hands on their hips stewing over not getting the service they prefer?
    Findley does that a bit but think it's just laziness rather that being a bitch.

    And honestly the only legit 100% loafer we have is Moore. He does not fight for Vanney. The only thing he is fighting is the urge to lay down on the pitch and have a nap.

  13. #163
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17,172
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No team ever looks like a team when 15 guys make x and 3 guys make 50-100x.

    It just doesn't work.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  14. #164
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Section 119
    Posts
    11,698
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I would like to see what this team can do under Vanney's tutelage with a solidified backline and creativity on the wings. Until then, I don't think it's fair to hold him entirely accountable for our deficiencies as a team. These issues should have been addressed in the off season. Hopefully, they will be addressed in the summer transfer window.

  15. #165
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Ur joking right? You can't see the effort they are putting in all over the pitch at all?

    These guys are running miles more then we are used to and you think they are loafing it around?

    Ur not seeing the covering for defenders who go forward? The way Morrow and Morgan are using the sideline as a 3rd defender?

    Ur not seeing Giovinco busting his gut to get an end ball? Ur not seeing Jozy go out way wide and back to defend?

    Ur not noticing the total absence of anybody doing a Defoe with hands on their hips stewing over not getting the service they prefer?



    *********


    Hey, I can blame these guys for not being good enough but not trying or working isn't part of it.
    Well I run 90k a week, so not sure they are running more than I am personally.

    But yeah, I absolutely don't think they are going hard 90 minutes. They were absent for 70 minutes of the Houston game. Little commitment, totally passive (as Vanney himself said), not pressing the game. These guys expect to be handed the match every time they walk out. Needs a big change in mentality.

  16. #166
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    No team ever looks like a team when 15 guys make x and 3 guys make 50-100x.

    It just doesn't work.
    Works okay in LA and Seattle. NYRB too.

  17. #167
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Works okay in LA and Seattle. NYRB too.
    Those two teams have coaches who can knit it all together...

    New York I'm not so sure.

  18. #168
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    But yeah, I absolutely don't think they are going hard 90 minutes. They were absent for 70 minutes of the Houston game. Little commitment, totally passive (as Vanney himself said), not pressing the game. These guys expect to be handed the match every time they walk out. Needs a big change in mentality.
    Biggest thing I think that needs adjustment is this.

  19. #169
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Those two teams have coaches who can knit it all together...

    New York I'm not so sure.
    Well the manager that seemed to knit them together for his 2 seasons and win the Supporter's Shield and make the conference finals just happens to be available.

  20. #170
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Well the manager that seemed to knit them together for his 2 seasons and win the Supporter's Shield and make the conference finals just happens to be available.
    Yeah. Not totally sold on him. Did anyone figure out exactly why he was fired?

  21. #171
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    4,330
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Yeah. Not totally sold on him. Did anyone figure out exactly why he was fired?
    Petke's old school approach didn't mesh with their new GM Ali Curtis. So Curtis brought in his own guy who thinks along the same lines as him.

    “The role of the traditional coach is not just changing—it’s changed,” Curtis said. “You no longer have a traditional coach who can focus primarily on the first team and only has to understand how to organize a training session and the Xs and Os. If that’s the route you’re taking three or four years from now, you’re going to be left behind. This club needed a head coach who not only could understand the direction the club needed to take, [but] be involved in all those areas, from youth development to performance and data analysis to communication—processing the style of play that we wanted to play. We needed a head coach that just wasn’t just involved and integrated, but that had that in his DNA.”


    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...sse-marsch-mls
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 05-15-2015 at 02:11 PM.

  22. #172
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,265
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Findley does that a bit but think it's just laziness rather that being a bitch.

    And honestly the only legit 100% loafer we have is Moore. He does not fight for Vanney. The only thing he is fighting is the urge to lay down on the pitch and have a nap.
    That is pretty funny.
    I agree. We should have kept Dike.

  23. #173
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Petke's old school approach didn't mesh with their new GM Ali Curtis. So Curtis brought in his own guy who thinks along the same lines as him.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]

    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...sse-marsch-mls
    Interesting article, thanks for posting. The old NYRB looks like us now, with Gio instead of Henry. Could see Vanney doing well at a club with that philosophy. Unfortunately he's with us.

  24. #174
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Interesting article, thanks for posting. The old NYRB looks like us now, with Gio instead of Henry. Could see Vanney doing well at a club with that philosophy. Unfortunately he's with us.
    So that means Petke in theory, should work out well like he did there.

  25. #175
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    So that means Petke in theory, should work out well like he did there.
    Yeah. In theory. Except that they love him in New York because of his deep roots there, whereas you and I would be calling for his head if the first ten games go badly. He he.

  26. #176
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Yeah. In theory. Except that they love him in New York because of his deep roots there, whereas you and I would be calling for his head if the first ten games go badly. He he.
    Maybe but I never called for Nelsen's head. The only managers that I called for their heads were the ones that were totally lost and out of their depth; Winter, Mariner, and now Vanney. And Mo. I forgot about him.

  27. #177
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,073
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Lots but the difference was that they stripped DCU bare that year and went full youth movement. The following off season was when they hammered the re-entry draft and acquired a lot of MLS vets and went worst to first. The Revs were crap under Heaps at first because that team is all young. They accepted poor results with a young, growing team and then added some DP talent to give them a boost and then they flourished.

    We are not on a youth movement. Vanney is a lot like both of those managers and could end the same but we didn't hire him to wade through rough water with all kids and learn on the job. That was what 2013 with Nelsen was. Our squad is expensive, has enough veterans to not be considered a youth squad, and is expected to win and look decent pretty much right away, especially since we didn't jettison the core like we did in every other manager change. That core is performing worse than under Nelsen. That's the bottom line and we all know it's those guys and not the DPs that make the teams.

    It doesn't take a professional football manager to see that we are almost as disorganized as we were with Winter in year one but also have a predictable offence that is easy to neutralize on the whole. A lot of people said it here earlier; it's not the losing under Vanney. It's how we're losing and also how badly we're playing even when we win (against the worst teams in the league at that).

    The only argument I ever see from his proponents are to keep him because they don't want change. Let's have a few posts with some solid reasons why we should keep him beyond not liking change or because he's only had 20 matches in charge. Let's have some meat & potatoes, show us why we should be optimistic posts. I'm listening.

    But this core isn't performing worse than under Nelsen. I don't know how you could come to that conclusion.

  28. #178
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,073
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Yeah. In theory. Except that they love him in New York because of his deep roots there, whereas you and I would be calling for his head if the first ten games go badly. He he.
    well, Petke did only win like 2 or 3 of his first 10 at NYRB, so definitely.

  29. #179
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    But this core isn't performing worse than under Nelsen. I don't know how you could come to that conclusion.
    - Jackson looked good then not so much, inconsistent. So similar.
    - Osorio is regressing but was already on a downward slide. Surely no better, probably worse.
    - Moore is worse.
    - Warner looks alright but gets few minutes.
    - Creavalle is terrible and gets too many minutes.
    - Bendik was so so pre-injury. Looked shakier than before. Distribution still awful.
    - Everybody is having a shit fit over Bradley's form so...
    - Caldwell injured again, Hagglund worse, Morrow good, and Morgan a surprise resurrection.

    I think that is the basis of the core we kept together. Hard to say many, if any besides Morgan, have improved under Vanney but they surely aren't working well as a unit and the shape and organization of them is terrible.

  30. #180
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    16,746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Maybe but I never called for Nelsen's head. The only managers that I called for their heads were the ones that were totally lost and out of their depth; Winter, Mariner, and now Vanney. And Mo. I forgot about him.
    You don't think Nelsen was lost, but you're asking us to accept your opinion on Vanney. Look, I see problems in all of these guys because we've never hired an experienced coach or had a balanced roster. But Nelsen was completely clueless. Without Defoe scoring, we were utterly lost.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •