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  1. #31
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    It's far too early for this!

    I think we've had a fairly decent start to this season - in fact I didn't expect them to get 9 points from the road trips - that was beyond my expectations. I didn't expect much more than maybe a win and a couple of draws.

    Ok, the home game on Sunday was poor all around, but we can't base firing Vanney on that one result!

    All coaches deserve one complete season IMO. Winter had one complete season, then start the second badly - he had to go. Nelson almost the same but at least we started the next season fairly decently. Vanney hasn't had a full season yet so I don't think we can judge him until he's shaped the team as he wants.

    For sure if we go on and lose between 5 to 10 in a row, yes sure fire him. But we won a game 3 matches ago, that's definitely not deserving of losing his job.

  2. #32
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    I'd encourage people to see the interviews with Vanney, as against judging him by reports. Same thing I said about Nelsen, btw.

    Outrage over results I get. Outrage over reports in papers - naaaah.

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    Did he really say we "need to learn to win at home" or something to that degree? Can somebody please link the video?

    Also, these revelations of Bradley running the team are troublesome. At this point, I'm just along for the ride and have no vested interest in what happens with TFC management.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Did he really say we "need to learn to win at home" or something to that degree? Can somebody please link the video?
    .
    I am not good at looking stuff up but he wasn't the only one who said it. I know Altidore did too but Vanney basically said that in the Davidson article today too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Did he really say we "need to learn to win at home" or something to that degree? Can somebody please link the video?

    Also, these revelations of Bradley running the team are troublesome. At this point, I'm just along for the ride and have no vested interest in what happens with TFC management.
    Yes, if true, the Bradley angle is concerning. It's not as if he's doing anything on the field to justify extra influence on the team's direction. More like the opposite.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Outrage over results I get. Outrage over reports in papers - naaaah.
    This should say quotes in papers. A quote is different than a report and it wasn't a blog either. It's legit media so I am sure the phrasing is correct.

    And in this case I am upset over our results, our poor play, our excuses, and the failure by management to address and fix the issues. The quotes in the papers don't help but I don't usually watch Vanney babble on for 6+ minutes while saying nothing of any importance and prefer to read his quotes in the news.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I am not good at looking stuff up but he wasn't the only one who said it. I know Altidore did too but Vanney basically said that in the Davidson article today too.
    i'm not too concerned with this and there is probably some truth to the "learning to win at home" thing. It sounds utterly ridiculous though! I remember my team Oxford back in the UK had a problem winning evening games (it had been over ten evening home games in a row without a win while the team were doing perfectly fine during Saturday afternoon games!) and the manager said "we need to shake the evening hoodoo and learn to like evening games". It sounded embarrassing! But later that season they got a draw at home Tuesday evening, then next game Tuesday evening they won, and then they didn't lose another!

    Winning and losing is habitual, and so is home and away form. If you aren't playing well at home but playing great away, it really can play on your mind as a team.

  8. #38
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    I can see how the "learn to win at home" quote could raise the ire of people.

    But

    He's not wrong, is he? I mean, when have TFC consistently won games at home? Isn't the overall home record just slightly over .500?

  9. #39
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    Well at least it's not fhritp.... I'm in

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    This should say quotes in papers. A quote is different than a report and it wasn't a blog either. It's legit media so I am sure the phrasing is correct.

    And in this case I am upset over our results, our poor play, our excuses, and the failure by management to address and fix the issues. The quotes in the papers don't help but I don't usually watch Vanney babble on for 6+ minutes while saying nothing of any importance and prefer to read his quotes in the news.
    If you choose not to watch the videos, your critiques of what was said in the pressers loses credibility. Davidson, Molinaro, Jacks, Armen & Larson all interpret those pressers. I prefer to watch the videos to make up my mind about what he said.

    I respect your opinion on our results. Disagree on your conclusions but I see where you are coming from.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Well at least it's not fhritp.... I'm in
    Does that stand for something obscene involving a pussy? Or maybe "fire him right in time for the playoffs?"

    You got me on that one, dude.

    We go through this every year; the only consistent is that we keep hiring inexperienced coaches who will take at least 18 months to two years to learn on the job, and in TO they don't get that long. IT's too big a sports town, same as New York or LA.

    The facts are bare to see:
    * we have no cohesive idea yet of what our tactical approach is; we're still figuring it out ten games into the year.
    * Our team does not appear motivated to play aggressively, all the time. In this league, those are the teams that win
    * The non-dp signings he has brought in have been busts. Findley and Creavalle are obviously not good enough. Perquis is inconsistent and not a starter, in my view, making too many big mistakes one-on-one. Zavaleta is neither ready nor fit; Delgado has played once.
    * They haven't addressed basic necessities, including a starting CB (too much youth focus) and a dangerous winger.
    * Michael Bradley's play has regressed terribly and he seems to have a free role, even though he's not fast enough to have a free role, and we don't have a system that is precise enough to allow for it anyway.

    I think Deathwatch is an appropriate term, because it isn't the same as 'Dead'. But a good coach could pull this out; look at what has worked, take over the team and make Bradley play to his tactical form, drill them to look for the quick, easy paths of movement, the passing lanes that match up with where you want pressure applied on the field.

    When a really good manager comes to a team, we often see immediate results. That's why guys like Dick Advocaat and Gus Hiddink get paid so much as fly-ins, to save clubs from relegation or being bounced from WC qualification. Toronto is a city that needs pretty immediate results; we have two-thirds to 75% of the player pieces. With that much on our side, we should be competing in every game, and we're not.

    Either he turns that around, or this will be Vanney's only season.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-boy View Post
    i'm not too concerned with this and there is probably some truth to the "learning to win at home" thing. It sounds utterly ridiculous though! I remember my team Oxford back in the UK had a problem winning evening games (it had been over ten evening home games in a row without a win while the team were doing perfectly fine during Saturday afternoon games!) and the manager said "we need to shake the evening hoodoo and learn to like evening games". It sounded embarrassing! But later that season they got a draw at home Tuesday evening, then next game Tuesday evening they won, and then they didn't lose another!

    Winning and losing is habitual, and so is home and away form. If you aren't playing well at home but playing great away, it really can play on your mind as a team.
    I guess I can see this point. For me, when I heard it, it came off as an excuse.

    It's the nonchalant type of attitude Vanney conveys as well. Perhaps he is trying to exude a level of calm professionalism but it doesn't resonate well with me.

    My worry is that his Mr. Rogers sweater and accompanying attitude are what the players are seeing in training and in the locker room and tuning him out. My issue is that somewhere there is a disconnect. Vanney sounds like he is instructing the team on how to play but they aren't listening. That's what I get from his interviews because he says the right things leading up to matches, then it goes sideways, and then he says that we need to do this or that to be successful. Usually the thing he says they need to do is the exact thing he said in pre-match interviews that they were focusing on.

    Either that or he just has no tactics and the plan is for everyone to freelance and figure it out pick up game style.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Does that stand for something obscene involving a pussy? Or maybe "fire him right in time for the playoffs?"
    Awesome.

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    Good points. However any firing is going to get real messy if TL is still around, I have to assume Bez wont go anywhere if TL is still here, making the next hiring pointless.

    We so desperately need a top executive that knows football in and out, TL is a showman, he doesn't build clubs but a real football president does that.
    Last edited by Richard; 05-13-2015 at 02:05 PM.

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    Prediction: If we fail to advance to the final of VCup and we lose to the Revs, I think he's done.

    Nothing to support the prediction, nor do I think it should happen at this time. Just a gut feeling.
    "Why can't we be great?" -Tim Leiweke

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    Prediction: If we fail to advance to the final of VCup and we lose to the Revs, I think he's done.

    Nothing to support the prediction, nor do I think it should happen at this time. Just a gut feeling.
    My prediction is that tonight and this away fixture against NE won't matter much. Tonight has a lot of worthy excuses for it (resting regulars, focusing on league) and the away fixture is tough. If we bomb those next two home matches against Portland and S.J then he has to be gone. If by any chance we are 3-8 with a string of home losses to start off in the new BMO then he is dead.

  17. #47
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    And if anybody is harboring any thoughts of Bob Bradley coming to save the day, Grant Wahl's latest should clear things up. He's in Europe for the long haul

    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...en-bob-bradley

  18. #48
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    Yeah no Bob Bradley for us for a long time, if ever.

  19. #49
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    Vanney's road record in MLS this year is above-average. One point a game is what you could expect, he's done better than that.
    He's had one game at home.

    If TFC fires Vanney at this point they are stupid.
    Supporting the worst team in the world since 2007.







  20. #50
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    This isn't going to be about Vanney's performance.

    Vanney got the job during the 3 month vacuum when Leiweke was leaving/AWOL. Bez was left alone because no one cared, but having just spent $100M on the stadium, that won't be true next time.

    If Leiweke stays: I think Vanney's demise will have no connection to specific results and everything to do with bringing in a "name" (probably as President) that will help sell tickets and take the edge off the Argo thing. That's just how The Ultimate Entertainer rolls.

    If Leiweke goes: all bets are off, but there is a likely caretaker period during which nothing would probably happen.

    Question is should there be a Leiweke deathwatch thread.

    My vote: I am angry he got the job, but he should have the year. Let's start with the President.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  21. #51
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    If Liewcke is leaving, and we are getting a new president.

    Then surely we need to hire new president. Who'll then fire Bez and replace him with his person. And then fire Vanney.

    On the other hand ... when has TFC ever done anything sensibly ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    My vote: I am angry he got the job, but he should have the year. Let's start with the President.
    My vote: Yes, no, yes.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    If TFC fires Vanney at this point they are stupid.
    I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, they have proven themselves to be that stupid many times before.

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    If you don't think Perquis is a starter in this league then just go home because you clearly have little to offer the discussion through rational thinking

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    i want vanney to go, but please let it be at end of season and only if we have somone better lined up immediately
    still not sure where i stand on him but if hes gotta go pls let it be like this

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    If you don't think Perquis is a starter in this league then just go home because you clearly have little to offer the discussion through rational thinking
    If you think he's perfect or a great center back ... etc etc etc He's had great moments but he's had a few stinkers, too. I think he's a no. 2, not a no. 1 center back.

  27. #57
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    Just give him time. Like a lot of our past managers, Vanney has a proven track record of.... Oops.

    And people wonder why some of us are so pessimistic. Prove us wrong, Vanney. Please.
    Last edited by Brooker; 05-13-2015 at 03:31 PM.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    If you don't think Perquis is a starter in this league then just go home because you clearly have little to offer the discussion through rational thinking
    I guess you wanted to quote jloome? I don't see the reference but anybody can have an opinion here. Whether you think its rational or not is up to you to decide.
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  29. #59
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    Carlo Ancelotti will probably need a new job in a few days/weeks.

    GIVE HIM A CALL TIM

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    We are in a playoff spot, after 7 games on a road, and have games in hand on most teams.

    Lets fire everybody cuz that's so TFC.

    *sigh*...

 

 

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