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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    The Oduro deal worked out very well for us in my opinion. Essentially we got rid of Rey, and through another trade, Oduro, we picked up Warner. I much prefer Warner over Rey, while Rey was a great player with great talent, he would be lost in our current system. Every ball out wide to him he would go around 3 to 4 players and then lose beside the corner flag.

    I have always though Warner was a great pick up, not sure why people are so up and down on liking/dis liking him. He is very strong on the ball and comfortable in possession. He will never be Bradley or Cheyrou, but he is a very strong MLS level deep lying midfielder. The exact type of player you need to have after your big spending Bradley/Cheyrou types.
    Issey. That's the only reason I dislike Warner. Everything positive he does for our team this year is a plus since Issey is back in Asia but it doesn't change how much I wanted that to work.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Issey. That's the only reason I dislike Warner. Everything positive he does for our team this year is a plus since Issey is back in Asia but it doesn't change how much I wanted that to work.
    What was the final story there? Something not working in the locker room, or just that we needed a more central player?
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Issey. That's the only reason I dislike Warner. Everything positive he does for our team this year is a plus since Issey is back in Asia but it doesn't change how much I wanted that to work.
    My sentiments exactly. It was wonderful to have another Cdn international on the squad and he did well in his brief time here. He'd become a supporter's favourite and while I do recognize Warner's capabilities and am not as dismissive of the man as others, I'd still rather have Issey on the squad.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    What was the final story there? Something not working in the locker room, or just that we needed a more central player?
    It was a locker room story that disappoints me as a fan of both country and club. I don't have specifics but one can look at his career movement and his response to his release here and come to their own fair conclusions.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    A problem with the Laba/Gilberto situations is that the transparency is so poor that we don't have any way of really knowing what the alternatives were.

    But we are getting smoked in the young talent ID department (most painfully by the Whitecaps)

    re TFC 2, that is a positive, sure. A small positive
    Last edited by ensco; 06-26-2015 at 10:38 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    What was the final story there? Something not working in the locker room, or just that we needed a more central player?
    There were some issues, but I think most of them weren't too serious.

    Montreal simply made Warner available and he was someone management really rated and wanted. I can also guess (*wink wink) that Warner is one of the most asked about players for trades. I would have loved to see Issey remain here and make an impact but that's sports I guess.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Issey. That's the only reason I dislike Warner. Everything positive he does for our team this year is a plus since Issey is back in Asia but it doesn't change how much I wanted that to work.
    It's hardly the first time a guy who doesn't fit the normal mould has bounced around. He's artistic, critical, likes discussing social development and meta issues. Guys like that (from Jim Bouton on) often bounce because coaches and players assume they wont' "fit in" or be part of the group. I thought the same might have been true with Soolsma until it was suggested it was disciplinary issues with him.

  8. #338
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    I think the national team thing way overwhelmed the reality of the value of Issey (for maybe the 7th time here)

    It's not a bad thing that Altidore and Bradley play in Canada, from that POV.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It's hardly the first time a guy who doesn't fit the normal mould has bounced around. He's artistic, critical, likes discussing social development and meta issues. Guys like that (from Jim Bouton on) often bounce because coaches and players assume they wont' "fit in" or be part of the group. I thought the same might have been true with Soolsma until it was suggested it was disciplinary issues with him.
    Right but I didn't follow Soolsma on the Canada squad. Just sorry it didn't work out and try not to make direct comparisons to Warner. Very different players for different roles.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think the national team thing way overwhelmed the reality of the value of Issey (for maybe the 7th time here)

    It's not a bad thing that Altidore and Bradley play in Canada, from that POV.
    I won't apologize for answering the question from Jack but I'll say that (to get back to topic) the Issey trade was one that had to be made and reflects well on management, whoever made that call.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It's hardly the first time a guy who doesn't fit the normal mould has bounced around. He's artistic, critical, likes discussing social development and meta issues. Guys like that (from Jim Bouton on) often bounce because coaches and players assume they wont' "fit in" or be part of the group. I thought the same might have been true with Soolsma until it was suggested it was disciplinary issues with him.
    Ah yes Jim Bouton. Ball Four is one of the great sports books of all time.

    Apparently Soolsma also had a bit of a problem with the bottle. It's unfortunate as I was a fan.

  12. #342
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    I thought Issey was a quality player, but again, one of his faults was that he NEVER tracked back. And as you can see in our current system, our "wide" midfielders are actually defending deep in our own corner flags - which i absolutely love. I wouldn't have kept Issey for that reason alone, but I also remember hearing many rumblings about his locker room issues as well, which makes his trade a no-brainer.

    The fact that he didn't last at Montreal as well is a good sign that we made the right decision.

    We are finally a team that makes a trade for a player and a year later he is still with our team. While the player we sent packing disappears a year later from either his new team or MLS or even the sport in general.

    The fact is, since Bez came in, this is the first time in our history this trend has completely reversed. This is why I am happy with Bez.

  13. #343
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    Not sure what all these numbers mean but if anyone likes number representations of teams (stats), check out squawka.

    http://www.squawka.com/teams/toronto...#1-14#by-match

    Show's TFC's performances throughout the year, what is really interesting is how we're consistently averaging a performance score of 221 per game since the Orlando win. Currently Sporting KC has the best performance score throughout the year at 212 per game.

    Over the course of the year we're the third best team in the league based on these measures.

    http://www.squawka.com/football-team...total#desc#avg

    Just a different perspective when looking at the Vanney Deathwatch, that's all.

  14. #344
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    One thing I have never liked and will never like when discussing management is trying to pin certain moves on certain guys. When you're the GM, you're judged on the players you acquire, all of them. Yes other front office members will influence or even push decisions one way (as with most teams in most sports) but at the end of the day it's the GM's responsibility so he takes the credit and the blame. I don't like this talk of saying someone is a Vanney signing or Nelsen signing or even a Leiweke signing. When Bez leaves this team, whenever that is, I'm not going to gloss over the DP signings because they have Leiweke's fingerprints on them or ignore loaning in Julio Cesar and Bradley Orr because Nelsen wanted them. If you want to spread the responsibility to other guys that's fine (and often appropriate), but don't pretend that it all doesn't come down to Bez when all is said and done.

    Bez has been hit and miss. He's assembled a squad that's doing pretty well right now, with some expensive players and some not so expensive (I didn't see any mention of Zavaleta by the way - Bez got him for the equivalent of a bag of balls). Our team composition 2 or 3 years down the line remains to be seen, and I would agree it's a mild concern. But overall, he's doing an adequate job so far. You want bad? Look at Philly.
    Last edited by notthesun; 06-26-2015 at 12:43 PM.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    Not sure what all these numbers mean but if anyone likes number representations of teams (stats), check out squawka.

    http://www.squawka.com/teams/toronto...#1-14#by-match

    Show's TFC's performances throughout the year, what is really interesting is how we're consistently averaging a performance score of 221 per game since the Orlando win. Currently Sporting KC has the best performance score throughout the year at 212 per game.

    Over the course of the year we're the third best team in the league based on these measures.

    http://www.squawka.com/football-team...total#desc#avg

    Just a different perspective when looking at the Vanney Deathwatch, that's all.
    Oh look at that first link, the "bum" Osorio with the highest pass completion ratio, at 88%...

  16. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Oh look at that first link, the "bum" Osorio with the highest pass completion ratio, at 88%...
    http://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments...kings_week_17/

    He may complete a lot of passes but he's been disappointing otherwise this year.

  17. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    http://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments...kings_week_17/

    He may complete a lot of passes but he's been disappointing otherwise this year.
    John Molinaro begs to differ... http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/mls-m...ld-cup-canada/

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    Osorio has been solid in terms of his vision and creativity. His only glaring weakness has been his inability to finish his scoring opportunities.

  19. #349
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    He's invaluable for our play style. A good comparison is Ned Grabavoy who won't get much goals or assists but is a possession sink in the final third.
    Last edited by PopePouri; 06-26-2015 at 01:47 PM.

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    Osorio is more talented than Grabavoy. Grabavoy probably runs more though.

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    Osorio is no doubt doing better but it's taken him some time to get involved. Here's hoping he continues his solid play and picks up some minutes at the Gold Cup. But let's not go overboard and call him invaluable to our team. Delgado, Warner, hell even Chapman could largely play that possession first style if he was injured. He needs to continue pressing forward as he has in recent games and create even more opportunities.

  22. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    Osorio is no doubt doing better but it's taken him some time to get involved. Here's hoping he continues his solid play and picks up some minutes at the Gold Cup. But let's not go overboard and call him invaluable to our team. Delgado, Warner, hell even Chapman could largely play that possession first style if he was injured. He needs to continue pressing forward as he has in recent games and create even more opportunities.
    Shuttlers aren't like for like replacements. Playing a much defensive minded Warner on the right is balanced with a more attacking left sided player on the left. The obvious replacement for Chapman but he does not provide the same level of creativity based on his appearances with TFC II. Have to see more of Delgado to understand his strengths/weaknesses but from the one game, he possesses the ball well but like Chapman, can't see the final pass.
    Last edited by PopePouri; 06-26-2015 at 03:13 PM.

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    I'm not going to complain. After what 8 years we're finally playing the type of soccer that I like to see.

    It was great to be there on Weds and watch us move the ball on the ground right through the middle of park, and intelligently mix up short passes and Bradley 40 yard through balls. The days of shit on a stick football are over.





    source of data: https://twitter.com/atosoccer/status/614334471756578816


    EDIT - lol Crew. Also thank Fuck Owen Coyle isn't our manager. 44fucking2 put it in the mixer boys.
    Last edited by Blowing Bubbles; 06-26-2015 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Meh.......he ain't going anywhere until we are well and truly out of the playoffs.

    a win saturday and tfc getting in the playoffs is 98%, today we are at 95%

    do you know hard it would be to screw up 95% probability??

    http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html

  25. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    a win saturday and tfc getting in the playoffs is 98%, today we are at 95%

    do you know hard it would be to screw up 95% probability??

    http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html
    We we did it last year.

  26. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    http://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments...kings_week_17/

    He may complete a lot of passes but he's been disappointing otherwise this year.
    I'm a big fan of sites like WhoScored and Squawka, but not everything they do is bulletproof. They're great for measuring and comparing objective statistics that you don't usually get from broadcasts (e.g. shot attempts, key passes, interceptions, clearances, etc.) but some things they track and produce should be taken with a grain of salt. For example, one of the statistics tracked on the offensive side is dribbles (beating a player on the dribble). How is WhoScored (or Opta, technically) tracking that? What constitutes a dribble and what doesn't? Because apparently Giovinco is averaging only 1.5 dribbles per game this season, which is simply preposterous having watched him so far this season. Same goes for unsuccessful touches: often hard to say when a touch was bad or when a pass was difficult to take.

    http://www.whoscored.com/Explanations

    That's WhoScored's explanation of their ratings. Obviously, they come nowhere close to explaining how much weight is given to which statistics under which circumstances. It's hard to place much value on an overall rating when you have no idea how it's calculated. The nature of the game really doesn't lend itself well to ratings systems that try to quantify many things at once. Baseball is more measurable, basketball is more structured, even hockey, for all it's free-flowing style at times, has identifiable zones and far less players (hence, variables) involved. The overall ratings are interesting and there is obviously a correlation between them and good players, but I wouldn't use them as concrete evidence for evaluating a guy.

    I much prefer these sites as tools to compare players in specific stats as well as tracking their progression. In Osorio's case, he was 13th in passing percentage in his rookie season, 10th in 2014, and is currently 7th, with his percentage rising year-over-year. And he's not playing safer: his key passes per game has also risen year-over-year. Good trends which fall in line with the role we want him to play in the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Osorio has been solid in terms of his vision and creativity. His only glaring weakness has been his inability to finish his scoring opportunities.

    And this hasn't been a problem in the past for him so I expect that to correct itself with time.

    Osorio is the real deal people.

    He will develop into a corner stone for this team and hopefully for the national team to.

  28. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    And this hasn't been a problem in the past for him so I expect that to correct itself with time.

    Osorio is the real deal people.

    He will develop into a corner stone for this team and hopefully for the national team to.
    That's all that he needs to get a handle on and I think he will. People forget that despite his experience here, he's really still a kid.

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    I think the present management has put by far the best roster we have had, it is not perfect and some of the non dp signing have been older players but they have all been good, and while we will be put under pressure when Bradley and Jozy go off to the gold cup, I still think that we have more then enough to pick up enough points to stay in the contention. BUT we will have to be organized and defensively sharp, this is were Vanney's ability will be tested (the more points we pick up now the better).
    Last edited by trane; 07-08-2015 at 10:42 AM.

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    I was going to stay away from this, but what I posted last holds true, this is were Vanney is tested. Clearly the first game was not in his favour. We will see New York. Still think we should have picked up more point before this.

    Still puzzled as to how good we can look when everyone is off, and then how awful we can look defensively.

 

 

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