I still think he's safe but we just blew the easiest match of the three we have this week. If on Saturday night we're riding a 3 match losing streak on the cusp of losing players to the Gold Cup then I say the Deathwatch is back on and will be about 2 minutes to midnight.
^ Good point.
Glad we arent quick to throw him under the bus
Honestly his position for this season is him hanging on to the front bumper of the bus anyway. As soon as this season started he was on the deathwatch and no matter what he does he always will be. Adding in the chatter about T.L talking about Vanney's mistakes and I think his leash is a short one. I'm not even blaming him for last Saturday although he was out coached. I still put that on the officials letting the match get out of hand and become something other than football. But you can bet we will be seeing a lot of the same treatment from just about every team until we show we can match and deal with physicality and a high press and that's on Vanney and staff to prepare us for.Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth
Meh.......he ain't going anywhere until we are well and truly out of the playoffs.
Extrapolating too much here. Frankly I've rarely seen MLS coaches make good adjustments in game when other teams show them something entirely new.
This is the first time we've seen hack-a-gio ... Let's see if we have an answer for it next time it comes up. We adjusted after some crap performances out of the gate, let's see if we can do it here.
Don't get me wrong (I'm not exactly a vanney fan) but I'm not reading into this loss, at all.
At the moment TFC project to 2nd in the East. Deathwatch...
Last year at this point our PPG was actually better than now and we all know how that went.At the moment TFC project to 2nd in the East. Deathwatch...
And I think people are taking the deathwatch wrong. I don't see it as us calling for his head but rather when you think management will drop the axe. Just conjecture based on results, form, and unpredictability of upper management.
Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 06-23-2015 at 10:39 AM.
Despite NYC's tactics we still outplayed and outchanced them by a considerable margin. Definitely can't extrapolate much from that game.
I didn't and I don't. However, when we start seeing that same game plan thrown at us weekly and we will, then we better have some answers that lead to results and not just chances.
With Mtl only point behind. Blech!At the moment TFC project to 2nd in the East. Deathwatch...
Last edited by Blizzard; 06-23-2015 at 12:32 PM.
He's definitely going to be fired. Or quit.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
One day! Every coach is or does .... eventually.
OMG we lost one game in what, 7? We're fourth in the east with games on all except mtl. Time to panic.
Sometimes I think Toronto fans want more drama, rather than team success.
One for the experienced Italian manager camp...
Capello is supposedly getting sacked/paid off by Russia on Wednesday.
capello looks like someones disappointed dad.
also, i'd love to see THIS down by the beaches.
yup. we're our own worst enemy sometimes. however, losses like this do show glaring weaknesses in our coaches abilities.
specifically this little tidbit about our ability to cross. 38 crosses came in, roughly 1 in 4 landed, and the ones that did never looked menacing. so why was that our primary source of attack? surely vanney should've realized something was up, but maybe he was having an off game as well?
personally im not for the mentality that a win is on the players while a loss is on the coach, but that statistic and the lack of ability to adapt to meet a threat is worrisome. there's nothing stopping other teams from hitting two key points contributing to our loss:
- the our over-reliance on cheyrou during high pressure situations, specifically the number of back passes he received.
- doubling up on giovinco and denying him service essentially choking off a creative attack, specifically the number of times we passed it around him in a panic.
There's also no reason we can't adapt and develop our game to counteract those tactics, as we have multiple times this season.
From what I can tell, Vanney's a pretty tactically aware guy. In the game day thread I said he should have went 4-3-3 to overload their unprotected full backs. I assume he knew he could have done this, but he decided to ride out what's been working really well for us lately. That's a decision with some logic behind it, but it didn't work. He's a young coach and he still has small decisions like that to learn from.
Great points.
Looking critically at the team performance is not "panic" nor "drama". Hopefully the FO is doing the same.
I do think that Vanney is an asset to the organization, but his appointment was political and not in the best interests of the fans. It is difficult to play shitty football with such studs as Morrow, Cherou, Bradley, Altidore and Joivinco. I believe Vanney is smart enough not to screw with the chemistry there too much. But it should have been much better. TFC still can not win games with possession, which means we are not taking advantage of our roster to dominate games. Vanney is not wise enough as a coach, and this will reflect on the team performance. While I do not think he needs to be removed now, I would not be too upset if an experienced specialist came along at any time.
I still say that someday in the not too distant future we will have an Italian manager. And probably president too. And a lot more players.
By next year I think this will happen unless Vanney's TFC either wins the league/cup and he sticks or we bomb and he is sacked earlier.
This is my feeling on him as well, he seems OK not lost, but he does not seem to get the maximum out of the players, and as soon as they are a bit flat or meat a bit of an obstacle like Saturday we are fucked. Firing him for the sake of firing, makes no sense but being on the look out for a manger who can truly get everything out of this roster makes a lot of sense, and if Vanney improves greatly in the mean time; great.
Yeah. For sure.
His name will be Vanni.
Don't forget who our upper management is. I stick with what I said. Unless we win hardware I think Vanney could very well get "Petke'd" so some big name manager can step in.
Not that I want it or am calling for it but it's our thing to do. Would it really be that shocking?
Petke was fired because New York decided to change the entire structure of their organization, including the duties of the HC, and he didn't meet requirements. He didn't get fired because he wasn't good enough. They've stressed that quite a bit since it happened.
Managment knows that 48-52 points and a few playoff games will satisfy most for this year. It would take like, a sixth place finish and a loss in the first round to get Vanney fired, and that is looking very unlikely with our current form.
Little more time added...
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I love Vanney's system. It's a pleasure to watch. We have clearly been the stronger side in all of the matches we've played since the season opening road trip, even in the games we've lost.
The reality is that Vanney is staying for a while unless Bez goes.
OK, so now that TFC dominated Montreal in possession I think we can dispense with this story. Vanney hugely out-coached Klopas, his roster and tactical decisions were better in almost every way.
I see Vanney as trying tactically to emulate Kreis' successful model when he was at RSL. The real Kreis can beat him at this (and ironically he did it by playing anti-football) but I think most MLS coaches can't.
Let's stop with the double-standard that when we win it's because of the players, but when we lose it's because of the coach.
This is a team sport, and in the Montreal game really I saw the whole team, not just the stud players playing good possession football, nice triangles, playing it mostly on deck, no hoofball. It was beautiful to watch. That's entirely due to the coaching staff training the players to work well as a team.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 06-25-2015 at 09:37 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
This place is hilarious...can't believe you guys are narrowing down our coach's future to a game by game basis, lol.
This thread should be pushed off a cliff.
^
Oldtimer,
If we come out and play similar football on Saturday, I will agree with you. Yesterdays team display was very good, and makes me think that they have turned the corner despite Saturdays loss.
But I still hope that we can find a way to win/get points, when people are bunkering down and/or we are not in top form.
CBTFC- really??? Is that what we are doing, did we miss the part of the season where we lost and lost and lost, or the previous season where we did the same? There were clear reasons to question Vanney, particularly after the shit Dallas game, were we played some of the worst defensive football I have ever seen. Now it looks like it has come together, although Saturday raised some questions.
Last edited by trane; 06-25-2015 at 10:17 AM.
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