There are heat maps available on whoscored. Just not the sort of one this guy is using, which is taken from Opta and costs serious coin to get.
There are heat maps available on whoscored. Just not the sort of one this guy is using, which is taken from Opta and costs serious coin to get.
Yea the whoscored ones just show the average position of the players.. not where the tackles are made.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
I meant Carver....
Carver. Ooooops.
have to disagree. Nelsen and Payne inherited the shit show of the roster and did the heavy lifting in cleaning it up. Our midfield is being over run in the diamond, exposing our lack of pace and width, but Vanney doesn't make changes to counter this until wa too late - for example, Jackson has been playing well and is tough and faster than Delgado. He should have been on the pitch vs NY to start, or at least at the half. And that's all on Vanney.
Jackson was injured.
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2015/08...dfield-changesJackson, who also started on Aug. 5 continues to recover from a hamstring injury he suffered last week during training.
didnt see that before the game. So that's not on vanney, but the previous game he made positional selection errors moving Delgado and Warner when they had been working so well together with Osorio. For that game, with Cheyrou out, Bradley should have been in his position and the others should have been left alone as the position was working. And Delgado isn't a winger. You could see all game that everyone was hesitating.
Our roster was still a shit show last season.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Okay so he's not the greatest manager on the planet...You could give Mourinho this team and we might have 2-3 more points....Point is Bradley and Altidore are damaged goods and no better than average MLS players now and their our DPs, so besides the ANT(best player in the league at present) we've got a VERY average team with THE WORST goalies in the league....If we make the playoffs I'd be very surprised and then the team be be BLOWN UP as usual...
How is Bradley damaged goods? Are you watching games on your DVR from last year?
He's been great this season, easily our best midfielder (Cheyrou has had some fantastic performances but has been slightly inconsistent). Yeah he was bad against the Red Bulls last weekend but who wasn't? His foot is healed and it's clearly showing, it's just a shame he's missed so many games due to international duty.
They cleaned up other people's shit, then brought in their own.
Yup. Lets not forget that they traded away the first overall pick all the way down to 18 for allocation money that they used to get guys on loan from QPR and Spurs, then drafted Bekker third overall. We had the first and third overall picks in that draft, and nothing at all to show for it today. We traded picks that could have been used on players that would have been key today for temporary cap space so we would suck slightly less that season.
Last season the roster wasn't horrible, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed a DM and some creativity up top. Yet we played all season with a double pivot and a pair of poachers up top.
Wheras this season we got a DM, a wonder dude in Giovinco, a ? in Jozy, got Bradly playing decently until the Gold Cup, discovered we have decent shuttlers in Delgado Osorio and Warner, had Jackson become decent, got Morgan back on track and got a couple of MLS class CD's.
All while discovering that Creavalle is not a RB, Findley really can't score, Hagglund has a sophmore jinx, Caldwell (who was supposed to mentor Perquis into the league) got busted, Bloom had a season ending injury, without any decent wide player baring Lovitz, and our keepers have not gained the confidence of the team.
Win some....lose some.
This will probably go down as the worst draft in MLS history. We drafted two complete busts, passed on 3 studs (Farrell, Manneh, Powers - to say nothing of a handful of other good players available), and did absolutely nothing worthwhile with the allocation we got. Payne set us back a full year in one day's work.
And the worst part is I remember thinking on the day, and I'm pretty sure posting on this board, that we won the draft. Oh god.
I believe everyone in MLS thought we won that draft hands down, good god what a colossal failure that was.
My understanding is we used that allocation to get out of the Hassli contract and the Ecks contract and a few others. Bad draft for who we got but the rumours at the time were we were over the cap by quite a bit and thus needed the allocation to be able to afford anybody above 100K.
also helped in the acquisitions of Morrow and Jackson.
I think with Seba and the squad we have now, Nelsen probably would have about the same points with better defense but much shittier offense. Seba would have been the difference in that counter attacking system. And Nelsen isn't any good either. If we had a guy with some credibility, experience, and a game plan in there from the start this season then we wouldn't have done those things that cost us points early on (Creavalle!) and what are costing us now (Bendik!). From that alone we should be at least 7 points better but probably more. Even at 7 more than we have now we'd be looking pretty good.
this is by far the best roster we have ever had, and even nelsen would have done better, it would not have been pretty, we would not have been as good offensively as we did at times, but ie we just defended as well as we did for him, which was not great but better then it is now, and just allowed Gio and Altidore to do there thing, backed up by Bradley we would have had another 6-12 points by now.
we didn't defend well with Nelsen, we just held a lot of guys back. It was Nelsen's decision not to play with a true DM in a formation that required it. halfway through the season when teams found out you could just send late runners through the centre of the pitch we continually got clobbered by teams with 5 man midfields. Nelsen was awful and got us too a good position for a portion of the season on the back of the talent of individual players.
not to mention players out of position etc etc, yeah definitely think Vanney is a better coach regardless of his short comings
Yeah, I remember thinking the same thing. At the time Bekker had just been the best player at the combine, and Welshman was a standout too. We all believed that we had just drafted two awesome Canadian players, and gotten more cap space at the same time. In reality, Bekker's lazy side had already shown in his appearances for the Canadian youth teams, and Welshman never even got a chance.
I remember Payne saying we were right up against the cap. We couldn't have been over it since at the time Koevermans was the only DP on our books. The idea was that the allocation money was to give us space to sign more players. We could have drafted a couple of GA players that wouldn't have taken up any cap space.
Those players were acquired the next season though.
I get what you're saying, but I'd just like to point out that if Nelsen were the coach... we wouldn't have Giovinco. Our DPs would be Gilberto and maybe Defoe, but probably not, and our team would still have no clue how to give them decent service.
I never said that we defended well, I said that we defended better I specifically said " it was not great", and yes it was mostly based on simply holding people back, but I think that with the roster we have this year, if we did that, we would be better off.
I also think that we have looked better with Vanney then Nelsen, but you do not get points for looking good you gets points by winning or at least no losing. I was not happy with the way we played under nelsen because I agree while we stayed back we did not defend well, we were not organized enough, but again with the offensive talent we have, I think we would get more points, by playing simple footy all nelsen.
thats unfair to Payne and Nelsen. Point to a contract that was an anchor they brought in. They cleaned up a mess and advanced things a long way. The club was able to move on with the Bloody Big Deal, etc, because of that work.
nelsen had and has loads of credibility in the football world. Loads. Captained an undefeated team in the World Cup and widely respected throughout the BPL.
About right, I would say.
I think it's more what they didn't leave than what they did. We came away from a draft where we had the first and third picks with absolutely nothing. And Payne fucked up the Laba deal to the point where he had to be made a DP (rumor is Laba wasn't supposed to cost a transfer fee), which they then had to get rid of to fit Bradley in.
This part of the discussion started with someone saying that we had to take apart Nelsens roster - your post proves that that wasn't the case. And did Payne screw up the draft? Maybe, maybe not, but nelsen was playing in the BPL at that point. Not on him.
and as for Laba, at the time, loads of us, including me, said "let Gilberto go" and we're told it couldn't be done. Mistake then and always.
Nelsen had strengths and weaknesses, but if we keep painting the previous regime as a disaster and ignore what they did well, we won't see the current regime properly either. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, and still not the right coach for our situation at the time. He'll land somewhere where he can learn. To be honest I'm surprised he's not an assistant in charge of defenders somewhere in the Championship.
Reputations gained after playing might be playing a role there I suppose.
BTW, we could talk about Nelsen's unwillingness to use basic monitoring systems offered and analytics provided. And we could discuss how he had lost the locker room (Vanney hasn't).
And we could talk about how people had solved our defence. Watch the NER game before he was fired. Ugh.....
So, no, Nelsen would not have done better then Vanney with this roster.
And there is no way Gilberto would have been let go for Laba. No team is going to let go a recently signed DP before the season started. It was not going to happen.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 08-20-2015 at 10:02 PM.
The OP stated that the roster they inherited was a "shitshow". I guess it all depends on your definition of a "shitshow". The roster that we finished last season with was one where:
1) Both the starting DP strikers had to be replaced
2) there were only two CBs
3) Our starting wingers were Dom Oduro and Daniel Lovitz
4) no DM
Not everything is Nelsen/Payne's fault, and the roster didn't have to be completely overhauled, but there was certainly a fair amount of work that still needed to be done to the roster, and I think Bez/Vanney have done a decent job of that so far. Lets also not forget that the starting RB has been injured the entire season so far.
Also don't get me wrong, I don't blame Nelsen for that draft fuck up. That was on Payne. As was the decision to hire a player who was still playing at the time to be the coach.
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