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    So how come TFC would not make last year's playoffs and this is a mark against TC


    BUT


    the team who won 3 out of 4 of the last MLS Cups including last year isn't involved in the discussion of the type of team that succeeds?


    We seem to be finding reasons to fit the negative here. Houston and Philly and Chicago are 3 teams who have not spent this season and were worse then us.

    1 year isn't a large enough sample to indicate what works in this league. I would hope the new President will set an identity.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 11-01-2015 at 10:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    So how come TFC would not make last year's playoffs and this is a mark against TC


    BUT


    the team who won 3 out of 4 of the last MLS Cups including last year isn't involved in the discussion of the type of team that succeeds?


    We seem to be finding reasons to fit the negative here. Houston and Philly and Chicago are 3 teams who have not spent this season and were worse then us.

    1 year isn't a large enough sample to indicate what works in this league. I would hope the new President will set an identity.
    I would argue the Galaxy are the entire discussion of the type of team that succeeds. Anyone who follows MLS should know this. They have shown a willingness to spend money and had that plan succeed, unlike TFC. They have brought up exceptional homegrown talent (Zardes, Jameson III, J.Villa) that blows TFC out of the park and quite frankly the fact that we have 'world class academy facilities' has masked the fact that we have actually produced very little in terms of MLS caliber talent. Let's be frank, Oso has proven that he isn't even starting caliber in this league and if he wasn't Canadian I would bet every last penny that this board would shit on him even more. Second to him there's Doneil who's best known as a central figure in TFC's trademark late collapses. Beyond that...do we even want to go there?

    The fact is we don't need to find the negative, the negative has hit us smack in the face for 9 years.

    The Galaxy are in the conversation each and every single year and baring this unforeseen late collapse this year, were the consensus pick to win MLS Cup yet again. Many here demand an experienced MLS coach. Guess what, LAG have that. Beyond doubt the LAG are a model to follow for teams like TFC who are willing to throw cash around. It's all in the way its's spent. We don't look for Robbie Keanes we look for Jermaine Defoes...any name that will put a bum in the seats but not necessarily a name that will put a bum into late round playoff seats. We've done this all along. I'd argue there's direct parallels between signing Bradley and Defoe to signing Frings and Koevs years back in terms of bringing in the best talent available who were open to MLS moves at their respective times. This isn't a one year sample size.

    If our boys gave it 110% and left it all on the field vs MTL and lost 3-0 I would be supporting until the bitter end. However, seeing the heartless disgrace of a performance that was is inexcusable. This team should have done better. Period.

    I rather go down like NE and at least see my star players giving a shit.

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    thats why i will not renew..because of the i dont give a shit meter in that last game,it was a disgrace to lose to our bitter rivals like that.and the fact that we have not heard from our new prez yet,but im getting email after email about renewing..wtf

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    I believe that Manning is going to be holding a "end of year" press conference tomorrow to address the media. I expect there will be a lot of very tough questions for him to field. Welcome to Toronto!

    I like the fact that we hired Manning, but I'm very concerned that he is going to throw his support behind Vanney for the sake of "consistency". Vanney has done nothing but prove that this job is beyond him. His decision making, inability to fix problems, and failure to properly motivate the team has proven to us all that he is in over his head. I will reserve judgement on Manning until after that press conference, but if he chooses to keep inexperience and failure at the helm of this club then I will officially have lost all faith in him as the new president of TFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    I believe that Manning is going to be holding a "end of year" press conference tomorrow to address the media. I expect there will be a lot of very tough questions for him to field. Welcome to Toronto!

    I like the fact that we hired Manning, but I'm very concerned that he is going to throw his support behind Vanney for the sake of "consistency". Vanney has done nothing but prove that this job is beyond him. His decision making, inability to fix problems, and failure to properly motivate the team has proven to us all that he is in over his head. I will reserve judgement on Manning until after that press conference, but if he chooses to keep inexperience and failure at the helm of this club then I will officially have lost all faith in him as the new president of TFC.
    Even tho I think Vanney should be canned, it must be someone who is a clear upgrade over him. If not then we are just spinning our wheels again. For example if we fire Vanney then put Fraser in place what is truly the point? As bad as the season ended he did get us into the playoffs. Granted many have said that was on the back of Giovinco but honestly a lot of teams rely on their big DP's to deliver something special. Giovinco is more then special it is what it is. If a Kreis or someone of that ilk is available, no question pull the trigger. Experiences European manager? Yea maybe. Another Nelson/Vanney experiment, nope.

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    Vanney should have been fired at the end of the game. He had the entire season to make this team into a contender and failed miserably. Last playoff spot. He makes poor decisions and does nothing at all to correct them for the following games. Very inept coaching and should have never been hired in the first place. What worries me most is he could be back next year and even with the addition of a few new players, this team will be fighting for last playoff spot and get run over again if they make the knock-outs. This guy is delusional if he believes he brought the team into their first playoffs, when it was clearly Giovinco's success. Vanney is a cancer to this team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    NCAA rules need to change. Right now, they can sub in and out whenever, so their players just run constantly at their man mark instead of keeping shape. That's why MLS is so chaotic; no on marks people out of the play, no one moves as a full-field unit. It's just constant pressure; it's why when a team like Man Utd takes a friendly against Seattle seriously, they destroy them. Because a disciplined tactical team will just run the ball around the field until their chicken-with-their-heads-off opponents run out of gas.

    It's like dink tennis. It can be hard to beat if you're not playing at a high level. If you are, you just kill them with net play.

    I agree with the Italian coaching idea, but it's nothing to do with citizenship: The Italian league has been financially gutted. Combine that with the fact that they've always favored defensive shape and counterattack, and you have teams having to do far more with far less money.

    But any league with more limited finances and higher draws is probably a good place to find a coach: Switzerland, Japan, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil.

    They key, to me, isn't getting a great tactical coach; Aaron Winter had them moving better than any of his predecessors. It's also being enough of a motivator and disciplinarian that you cut out as many stupid mistakes as possible.

    I actually think maybe Vanney just isn't smart enough. There were times when we obviously move the ball with more pace and precision, and when we were concentrating on using our skilled spine, we were a far more dangerous team than when we played wide. ANd yet he made the classic rookie coaching mistake of continually trying to outcouch the other team with adaptive formations instead of small adjustments to their own game and shape. So we lacked cohesion constantly. To me, this is something even a friggin Football Manager fan knows will not work.

    Having said that, I don't think Jason Kreis or Mike Petke would be any better. Neither strikes me as both intelligent and dominant enough to control the room. The latter, maybe, but not hte former. That's why they got rid of Petke in NY and brought in Jesse Marsh. They knew Petke was not smart enough to survive without Thierry Henry setting up two-out-of-three goals.

    If we can't get a better, experienced coach, then I say we keep Vanney. But I figure his job hangs by the thread of availability and Bez's offseason moves.

    To me, the bigger issue now is why Bezbatchenko has a job. The successful player he signed, Giovinco, was already a renowned player. In Bradley, he brought in a player too aggressive and self-confident for a milquetoast like Vanney to handle; in Altidore, he brought in a player who has given up being anything but a hold-up man and poacher, despite his potential. And the less said about his defensive picks, the better. Perhaps the fact that he was a USL defender has given him a false sense of security that he knows a good defender when he sees one.

    We need someone who understands not only talent and pedigree, but CONSISTENCY and intelligence, are key to who you sign. Kantari and Perquis were coming off strings of failures, with one crocked and not playing even before he was crocked (Perquis) and the other anchoring one of the worst defenses in the French first division right into relegation. What about that didn't send off alarms?

    I've afraid his law degree and glasses have given Bez an aura of "smartest guy in the room" to the folks at MLSE. But it's clear from his haphazard choices that he isn't.
    Great points.

    As critical as I have been, I have given Vanney credit for some solid offensive play through out the year, but when I think about it, I cannot think of one game that our good offensive performance was not against a team that could defend well ( by MLS standards), it always seems that we had good offensive games against teams that were also poor defensively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    Great points.

    As critical as I have been, I have given Vanney credit for some solid offensive play through out the year, but when I think about it, I cannot think of one game that our good offensive performance was not against a team that could defend well ( by MLS standards), it always seems that we had good offensive games against teams that were also poor defensively.
    We murdered San Jose at home who gave up 39 goals on the year, tied 2nd best in the league. That was probably our best game of the season in terms of sheer performance. Your point in general stands though, most of our best games came against lesser opposition (about what you'd expect for a mediocre team, which we were).

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    Also beat DC away and NYRB at home. But yeah we had some defensive horrors too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Also beat DC away and NYRB at home. But yeah we had some defensive horrors too
    The win at D.C. was our best result of the year. Home field advantage is the great equalizer in MLS, so beating (at the time) the 1st place team in their park with a solid overall performance was huge. On the other hand getting blanked by Columbus at home when even a draw would have guaranteed a home playoff date was the ultimate choke.

    Our performance in the playoff game was dreadful but the results to end the year - two road losses to one of the hottest teams in the league - are not very surprising. The narrative that the regular season is worthless because of the playoff format or the expanded playoffs is complete baloney. Every home team won their knock out game.

    Columbus in the penultimate week and the home opener loss vs. Houston go down as our worst losses of the season IMO.

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    UPDATE: Jason Kreis has been sacked.

    Commence wild speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    UPDATE: Jason Kreis has been sacked.

    Commence wild speculation.
    Would it be really THAT wild?

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    God damn, they did not mince words either in that statement. Threw him under the bus and ran over him a few times for good measure.

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    Get Jason Kreis this very minute. I read somewhere that he was on a $1 million salary per year. Surely it's worth it to bring in a successful and experienced manager who has actually won the cup? Let's just do this!

    End of year presser tomorrow. Will probably learn that Vanney stays. Hope not.

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    Id be shocked if Vanney goes. If he does Bez does too so we can also expect another GM and yet more turn over.

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    Would Manning pick Vanney over Kreis? A man that turned around RSL and won the league?

    I don't know. I hope he's smart enough to make the obvious choice.

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    Kreis doesn't seem like the biggest fan of MLSE. I remember him speaking out about us not giving Preki enough time. I'd be pretty surprised if he signs here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon View Post
    Kreis doesn't seem like the biggest fan of MLSE. I remember him speaking out about us not giving Preki enough time. I'd be pretty surprised if he signs here.
    Having Bill Manning here would solve that problem as they are very familiar with each other have worked together at RSL for years. In many ways it's a perfect fit.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Having Bill Manning here would solve that problem as they are very familiar with each other have worked together at RSL for years. In many ways it's a perfect fit.
    Sure does sound like it. They know each other really well, so there's no way Manning is not aware of Kreis' situation right now. He should also know that the majority of TFC fans want Vanney out. In comparison the majority of NYCFC fans actually wanted Kreis to stay. Always tough to start a brand new team from year zero. At least Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Montreal, Orlando started with a foundation of playing in the USL/NASL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    Sure does sound like it. They know each other really well, so there's no way Manning is not aware of Kreis' situation right now. He should also know that the majority of TFC fans want Vanney out. In comparison the majority of NYCFC fans actually wanted Kreis to stay. Always tough to start a brand new team from year zero. At least Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Montreal, Orlando started with a foundation of playing in the USL/NASL.
    did you take a poll or something? because other than few people here, doesn't seem like people are on fire vanney train yet
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    If Kreis is interested in TFC, (and that's a big if), then Vanney's days are numbered.

    Then again, Kreis will be under pressure to deliver immediate results, and what if even Kreis stumbles for whatever reason? We're far too easy to pull out a blade on a manager. Will Vanney's credentials buy him a 2nd year? Because this TFC roster cannot play the way Kreis normally plays.

    And if Vanney goes, Bez needs to go with him.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    did you take a poll or something? because other than few people here, doesn't seem like people are on fire vanney train yet
    I really haven't seen that many people, if any, come out in complete support for Vanney. I don't know any personally. Where are you seeing this? The main reason some people don't want Vanney fired is because we tend to then turn around and hire another inexperienced coach. Again. Again, again. I don't want that either. But I'd trade him for an experienced coach with a successful history, and certainly Kreis fits that package.

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    Where's the dump drunk full of cash?

    I think this is a hire most people would be pleased with. I should would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    did you take a poll or something? because other than few people here, doesn't seem like people are on fire vanney train yet
    People are for sure. Lots of people I have talked to are on the sack Vanney train or even worse, the fuck TFC and follow another team train. That flat display put a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths and they are looking at the manager as the one to blame. The only one who gets off sort of easy is Bez. People are happy he got Seba and even Bradley & Jozy. They tend to overlook the duds he acquired also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    I really haven't seen that many people, if any, come out in complete support for Vanney. I don't know any personally. Where are you seeing this? The main reason some people don't want Vanney fired is because we tend to then turn around and hire another inexperienced coach. Again. Again, again. I don't want that either. But I'd trade him for an experienced coach with a successful history, and certainly Kreis fits that package.
    you don't have to say something to support Vanney. or to fire Vanney.

    assuming something is pretty silly thing to do, with lacking evidence
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Twellman has been pretty bang on when it comes to being and MLS insider/rumor guy for the last few years.

    If he's saying he fancies TFC, then there is probably smoke to that fire.
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 11-02-2015 at 07:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    you don't have to say something to support Vanney. or to fire Vanney.

    assuming something is pretty silly thing to do, with lacking evidence
    All you have to do is go on Twitter for a bit, read user comments for a bit, read the comments in here, and you'll easily find that it's clearly the vast majority of TFC supporters who are not happy with Vanney - and would replace him with a more experienced coach. You don't need to do a poll to also know that the vast majority of "people" left in The Walking Dead are, well, walking dead. I've seen hundreds of people speak out about Vanney with great negativity, and maybe a handful wanting otherwise.

    It's pretty safe to assume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Twellman has been pretty bang on when it comes to being and MLS insider/rumor guy for the last few years.

    If he's saying he fancies TFC, then their is probably smoke to that fire.
    or Twellman could just be trying to put 2+2 together, but with TFC, the answer usually ends up being 5

    tomorrow's press conference should be interesting...

    for the record, I'm on board hiring Kreis only if
    1. Bez also gets fired. Vanney is Bez's man. I doubt he wants to work with Kreis. The GM must be on same page with the manager. And Bez has enough of an ego.
    2. Kreis gets at least 2 seasons. This TFC roster is one Giovinco long term injury away from missing out the playoffs, and there is going to be some turnovers. (though Robbie Findley probably survives the cut)
    3. Either Bradley gets traded or gets told to know his role. I prefer trade because Bradley has too much influence with TFC hierarchy, way too much for merely a player. (Lampard pretty much got Kreis fired IMO) Kreis has to own the locker room, and he'll butt heads with Bradley if Bradley doesn't toe the line.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    If we do choose to get Kreis over Vanney, Bez is definitely out as well.

    In that case, what happens to the vacant GM role? Can Manning and Kreis take over the responsibilities? Usually you'd want your GM picking his coach...

 

 

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