The Vanney Era Deathwatch Thread

[notthesun]

All right, game is over so let me get all my thoughts out on here. I know I will probably get a ton of flak for this, but I'll say it anyways.

In my mind, today's game should mark the end of the Bezbatchenko era. Not Vanney's.

I firmly believe the biggest reason we lost today was because Bez failed to build a structurally sound roster. I think Vanney made mistakes, but overall tried to do the best with what he had. As the guy tasked with building the team, Bez is the one that should bear responsibility for the state of the back line. Who can sit here and honestly tell me Vanney messed up horribly today? What specifically did he get terribly wrong? The formation was the one that's brought us our most success this season; hell, it had us outplaying Montreal for the first half on the weekend and competitive in the 2nd half save for those 10 awful minutes. Back line selection? Morrow is a given. Can we realistically say Zavaleta or Hagglund would have done better than Kantari and Williams? Jackson had a shocker, but who do you stick there instead? Delgado?

Besides Morrow, we've been grasping at straws all season at the back. Could Vanney have coached in a such a way that the back line would have been stronger? I don't know. Maybe. But I think the blame lies with Bez. All of that and we also don't have a midfielder that can sit in front of our CBs and provide an anchor for us to rely on (and yes, we're all thinking of a particular player of that type). That's on Bez too. And we started Robbie fucking Findley at RM today, with no player a significant upgrade on him on the bench (I definitely would have started Delgado or Warner, but it's not like that would have changed much). That's Bez, again.

We have holes everywhere in our lineup, and as a result I have a hard time believing Vanney just coached us out of the playoffs. I think this is a squad issue way before it's a coaching issue, and therefore I think the guy in charge of building the squad should get the axe, not the coach. It's one thing if we have talent pool that should be able to compete with the best but we just can't get it done. It's another thing when the talent pool isn't good enough. I look at the roster we had today and I don't feel like there's some kind of untapped potential. We certainly played below ourselves today, but our best today wouldn't have been a blowout win, it would've been a 1 goal squeaker. Our squad isn't that good. People always talk about how we underachieve, but it's always in the context of the money we spend (which is a little misplaced due to the salary cap and DP rule). On a player-for-player, pound-for-pound evaluation, I don't think we underachieved. I think this is what we are right now.

Now look at Montreal. They have quality depth spread out across their team. Two capable outside backs with an average CB and the best CB in the league. One of the most dangerous and creative midfielders in the league aided by speed on the flanks and defense-first focus in the middle. And a striker that scores nearly every chance, but just as importantly provides unseen levels of hold up play to maintain possession when things get bogged down in the middle of the pitch (seriously - Drogba's hold up play is almost unfairly good, no one else in the league comes anywhere close at all). They have a balanced roster and every midseason signing they made helped them achieve that balance. I suspect I will get hounded for this, but I don't think Biello is some revelation as their coach. Honest truth, I question what evidence there is for him being better than Klopas, or - yeah, I'm gonna say it - Vanney. He plays a simple 4-2-3-1 and his players basically pick themselves. Montreal didn't turn their season around by firing Klopas, they turned it around by signing Drogba, filling in some other pieces, and in the end creating a truly balanced roster. I guarantee you we would have made the playoffs last year if we signed Giovinco when Nelsen was fired. Absolutely guarantee it (we wouldn't have looked as good as Montreal do now because we had a host of other issues, but it would've been enough to get us into the playoffs, that I promise you).

This result proves that Bez utterly failed in building this squad, especially the midseason additions. I love the guy, but signing Gomez was idiotic. We needed a holding mid. And Bez simply signed the wrong guys on defense, and didn't address the hole at RM.

Now. With all of that being said, I'm not completely against the idea of firing Vanney. I think we could bring in someone else and still succeed. I think Bez has to go, or at least has to have zero say in personnel decisions moving forward and someone needs to be brought in for that. But I would be satisfied by keeping Vanney but hiring a new GM. I think overall this is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and I think we should treat it that way first, and evaluate the coaching second.

[Red CB Toronto]

The issue I would have with that is that I never like the idea of a new GM having a head coach forced on him.

All right, game is over so let me get all my thoughts out on here. I know I will probably get a ton of flak for this, but I'll say it anyways.

In my mind, today's game should mark the end of the Bezbatchenko era. Not Vanney's.

I firmly believe the biggest reason we lost today was because Bez failed to build a structurally sound roster. I think Vanney made mistakes, but overall tried to do the best with what he had. As the guy tasked with building the team, Bez is the one that should bear responsibility for the state of the back line. Who can sit here and honestly tell me Vanney messed up horribly today? What specifically did he get terribly wrong? The formation was the one that's brought us our most success this season; hell, it had us outplaying Montreal for the first half on the weekend and competitive in the 2nd half save for those 10 awful minutes. Back line selection? Morrow is a given. Can we realistically say Zavaleta or Hagglund would have done better than Kantari and Williams? Jackson had a shocker, but who do you stick there instead? Delgado?

Besides Morrow, we've been grasping at straws all season at the back. Could Vanney have coached in a such a way that the back line would have been stronger? I don't know. Maybe. But I think the blame lies with Bez. All of that and we also don't have a midfielder that can sit in front of our CBs and provide an anchor for us to rely on (and yes, we're all thinking of a particular player of that type). That's on Bez too. And we started Robbie fucking Findley at RM today, with no player a significant upgrade on him on the bench (I definitely would have started Delgado or Warner, but it's not like that would have changed much). That's Bez, again.

We have holes everywhere in our lineup, and as a result I have a hard time believing Vanney just coached us out of the playoffs. I think this is a squad issue way before it's a coaching issue, and therefore I think the guy in charge of building the squad should get the axe, not the coach. It's one thing if we have talent pool that should be able to compete with the best but we just can't get it done. It's another thing when the talent pool isn't good enough. I look at the roster we had today and I don't feel like there's some kind of untapped potential. We certainly played below ourselves today, but our best today wouldn't have been a blowout win, it would've been a 1 goal squeaker. Our squad isn't that good. People always talk about how we underachieve, but it's always in the context of the money we spend (which is a little misplaced due to the salary cap and DP rule). On a player-for-player, pound-for-pound evaluation, I don't think we underachieved. I think this is what we are right now.

Now look at Montreal. They have quality depth spread out across their team. Two capable outside backs with an average CB and the best CB in the league. One of the most dangerous and creative midfielders in the league aided by speed on the flanks and defense-first focus in the middle. And a striker that scores nearly every chance, but just as importantly provides unseen levels of hold up play to maintain possession when things get bogged down in the middle of the pitch (seriously - Drogba's hold up play is almost unfairly good, no one else in the league comes anywhere close at all). They have a balanced roster and every midseason signing they made helped them achieve that balance. I suspect I will get hounded for this, but I don't think Biello is some revelation as their coach. Honest truth, I question what evidence there is for him being better than Klopas, or - yeah, I'm gonna say it - Vanney. He plays a simple 4-2-3-1 and his players basically pick themselves. Montreal didn't turn their season around by firing Klopas, they turned it around by signing Drogba, filling in some other pieces, and in the end creating a truly balanced roster. I guarantee you we would have made the playoffs last year if we signed Giovinco when Nelsen was fired. Absolutely guarantee it (we wouldn't have looked as good as Montreal do now because we had a host of other issues, but it would've been enough to get us into the playoffs, that I promise you).

This result proves that Bez utterly failed in building this squad, especially the midseason additions. I love the guy, but signing Gomez was idiotic. We needed a holding mid. And Bez simply signed the wrong guys on defense, and didn't address the hole at RM.

Now. With all of that being said, I'm not completely against the idea of firing Vanney. I think we could bring in someone else and still succeed. I think Bez has to go, or at least has to have zero say in personnel decisions moving forward and someone needs to be brought in for that. But I would be satisfied by keeping Vanney but hiring a new GM. I think overall this is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and I think we should treat it that way first, and evaluate the coaching second.

[Areathrasher]

Had your chance. Fucked it royally, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Areathrasher]

Everyone who is ripping on Vanney, what do you want him to do? If you give the chef rotten ingredients, he will not produce a gourmet meal. Bezbatchenko needs to provide Vanney with players who are capable of providing defense. We are all pissed at the result, and rightfully so. Another year, another disappointment. Until the team has the players that are needed, all the coaching in the world won't make a difference. Garbage, no matter who (read: coach) serves it to us, it's still gonna be garbage.

You think Bez was going after Perquis and Kantari on his own prerogative?

[SirBobSaget]

I can't think of any player brought in over the last 2 years that has actually been value for money. I can think of many who are way overpaid and on unmovable contracts.

[Canary10]

I can't think of any player brought in over the last 2 years that has actually been value for money. I can think of many who are way overpaid and on unmovable contracts.

I think Delgado has been a pretty useful player. He's the only one I can think of.

[Davenport]

Someone who attempts to build a team without sorting out the defence first obviously know f all about the game. Get rid

[ronzilla]

Had your chance. Fucked it royally, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I can't believe some people here are defending him

[billyfly]

Bye bye Vanney and Bez.

[69Chevy396]

All right, game is over so let me get all my thoughts out on here. I know I will probably get a ton of flak for this, but I'll say it anyways.

In my mind, today's game should mark the end of the Bezbatchenko era. Not Vanney's.

I firmly believe the biggest reason we lost today was because Bez failed to build a structurally sound roster. I think Vanney made mistakes, but overall tried to do the best with what he had. As the guy tasked with building the team, Bez is the one that should bear responsibility for the state of the back line. Who can sit here and honestly tell me Vanney messed up horribly today? What specifically did he get terribly wrong? The formation was the one that's brought us our most success this season; hell, it had us outplaying Montreal for the first half on the weekend and competitive in the 2nd half save for those 10 awful minutes. Back line selection? Morrow is a given. Can we realistically say Zavaleta or Hagglund would have done better than Kantari and Williams? Jackson had a shocker, but who do you stick there instead? Delgado?

Besides Morrow, we've been grasping at straws all season at the back. Could Vanney have coached in a such a way that the back line would have been stronger? I don't know. Maybe. But I think the blame lies with Bez. All of that and we also don't have a midfielder that can sit in front of our CBs and provide an anchor for us to rely on (and yes, we're all thinking of a particular player of that type). That's on Bez too. And we started Robbie fucking Findley at RM today, with no player a significant upgrade on him on the bench (I definitely would have started Delgado or Warner, but it's not like that would have changed much). That's Bez, again.

We have holes everywhere in our lineup, and as a result I have a hard time believing Vanney just coached us out of the playoffs. I think this is a squad issue way before it's a coaching issue, and therefore I think the guy in charge of building the squad should get the axe, not the coach. It's one thing if we have talent pool that should be able to compete with the best but we just can't get it done. It's another thing when the talent pool isn't good enough. I look at the roster we had today and I don't feel like there's some kind of untapped potential. We certainly played below ourselves today, but our best today wouldn't have been a blowout win, it would've been a 1 goal squeaker. Our squad isn't that good. People always talk about how we underachieve, but it's always in the context of the money we spend (which is a little misplaced due to the salary cap and DP rule). On a player-for-player, pound-for-pound evaluation, I don't think we underachieved. I think this is what we are right now.

Now look at Montreal. They have quality depth spread out across their team. Two capable outside backs with an average CB and the best CB in the league. One of the most dangerous and creative midfielders in the league aided by speed on the flanks and defense-first focus in the middle. And a striker that scores nearly every chance, but just as importantly provides unseen levels of hold up play to maintain possession when things get bogged down in the middle of the pitch (seriously - Drogba's hold up play is almost unfairly good, no one else in the league comes anywhere close at all). They have a balanced roster and every midseason signing they made helped them achieve that balance. I suspect I will get hounded for this, but I don't think Biello is some revelation as their coach. Honest truth, I question what evidence there is for him being better than Klopas, or - yeah, I'm gonna say it - Vanney. He plays a simple 4-2-3-1 and his players basically pick themselves. Montreal didn't turn their season around by firing Klopas, they turned it around by signing Drogba, filling in some other pieces, and in the end creating a truly balanced roster. I guarantee you we would have made the playoffs last year if we signed Giovinco when Nelsen was fired. Absolutely guarantee it (we wouldn't have looked as good as Montreal do now because we had a host of other issues, but it would've been enough to get us into the playoffs, that I promise you).

This result proves that Bez utterly failed in building this squad, especially the midseason additions. I love the guy, but signing Gomez was idiotic. We needed a holding mid. And Bez simply signed the wrong guys on defense, and didn't address the hole at RM.

Now. With all of that being said, I'm not completely against the idea of firing Vanney. I think we could bring in someone else and still succeed. I think Bez has to go, or at least has to have zero say in personnel decisions moving forward and someone needs to be brought in for that. But I would be satisfied by keeping Vanney but hiring a new GM. I think overall this is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and I think we should treat it that way first, and evaluate the coaching second.

Cheyrou was a good signing. Perquois played his finest game recently, and got injured. Delgado is ok. Giovinco was a steal. Altidore is questionable. Add these players to most MLS teams and they would contribute. The problem on defence is critical. And our keeper is woeful. He should have stopped the first goal tonight, not that it mattered in the end.

[billyfly]

The worst team in the World. Remember that quote?

[notthesun]

Cheyrou was a good signing. Perquois played his finest game recently, and got injured. Delgado is ok. Giovinco was a steal. Altidore is questionable. Add these players to most MLS teams and they would contribute. The problem on defence is critical. And our keeper is woeful. He should have stopped the first goal tonight, not that it mattered in the end.

The book is definitely still out on Perquis. He showed well in his most recent run of starts, but you expect a lot more for his salary and pedigree.

Bez has made some decent moves and a few great ones. But he's made some awful ones, and the ones he hasn't made have cost us dearly.

[notthesun]

Just a quick note also - at the end of the day we lost 2 road games to end the season. Not excusing the performance today, but losing on the road is not exactly unheard of in MLS.

The real failure in this stretch run was laying an egg against Columbus at home. We had to win that game.

[MKR]

well i guess that's that then.

[Ultra & Proud]

He's done.


We go no further forward and threaten ruining what we have if we stay the course.


Vanney Pro's


- consistency at manager position
- had offence click at times
- out coached opponents a few times
- good media presence
- smart guy, knows league


Vanney Con's


- consistently inconsistent
- offence inconsistent and sputtered when things got tight
- lack of flexibility when it mattered
- played favourites who should not have started
- had a hand in signing two expensive CB busts (French guys come from Vanney)
- had 45 matches to address defence and didn't. Still no evidence of plan to change that.
- failure to motivate. We looked lackadaisical since we clinched
- easy to figure out. We played the same line up and set up that lost us the last 3 matches. No changes.
- Started Findley on top of Jackson who was told to push forward. No cover. Should have been Warner.
- Konopka played okay down stretch then Bendik started for no reason. Afterwards Konopka looked shaky. Who does that in important matches down the stretch?
- looked unprepared a lot all season. Sometimes played well but it looked like a lot of that was from good individual efforts.
- not many players improved under Vanney. Morgan did and then he got lost in the shuffle for some reason. Osorio did as well but he'd probably get better under anyone this side of Mariner. Jackson too but he was once a decent player.
- failure to get 'up' for the biggest matches. You come out like that in the first playoff match and against Montreal and there should be questions. It's really inexcusable.
- for a guy who the GM said was put in charge because the previous manager had too many excuses, he sure has a lot of them himself and I accept none of them.


We stay the course and I am willing to bet the 2016 TFC will allow 50 goals against again minimum. It is Vanney's system. That much is clear. No personnel you can afford at the back in MLS will change that.

[tfcleeds]

I expect this thread will be closed in the next few days. He's as good as gone.

[OgtheDim]

With the exception of the goalie in and out (which reminded me of the Jay's post clinch issues), most of what you are saying DM could describe the seasons of Kreis and Arena. (although I dispute the Osorio point - that is squarely on Vanney)

And if they lose tonight, Vermes could be described much the same.

Or Porter if Portland loses.

If Vanney gets tossed for an experienced MLS guy who can meld a team together, I'm OK with that (not a Capello - let NYCFC make that stupid mistake).

But I know darn well we are going to still have issues cause every team has issues.

[Ultra & Proud]

Two good things about Vanney staying all year:

1) not hearing folks say he didn't get a full year to do his plan
2) Timing may be right to land Kreis.

[tfcleeds]

Two good things about Vanney staying all year:

1) not hearing folks say he didn't get a full year to do his plan
2) Timing may be right to land Kreis.

Yeah, Kreis would certainly be an interesting option. He's obviously worked with Manning before, and if rumour has it correct, he didn't quite jive with all the big names at NYCFC.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeah, Kreis would certainly be an interesting option. He's obviously worked with Manning before, and if rumour has it correct, he didn't quite jive with all the big names at NYCFC.

He jived with Villa just fine but not so much with the two old guys he had forced on him that he never wanted. Now if they signed those two rumoured DPs from down south he wanted instead of the creaky twins who knows what would have happened.

[ag futbol]

Bez deserves another year, vanney doesn't deserve another minute.

No thanks. Too many terrible signings he needs to take responsibility for.

This guy has zero experience evaluating talent prior to this year - hit the eject button already.

[Ultra & Proud]

We will see what kind of guy Manning is this off season. Is he the chance giving, see how it pans out guy or is he the "I want my own guys" guy?

[trane]

Fuck. I am not happy. We had our best year, but it was not good enough, or at least the results were not good enough.

I am not sure how you keep him.

[Ultra & Proud]

Fuck. I am not happy. We had our best year, but it was not good enough, or at least the results were not good enough.

I am not sure how you keep him.

A sensibly run organization wouldn't but here we are. We all know where we are on the sense meter. We ain't gots none.

[MightyDM]

Everyone who is ripping on Vanney, what do you want him to do? If you give the chef rotten ingredients, he will not produce a gourmet meal. Bezbatchenko needs to provide Vanney with players who are capable of providing defense. We are all pissed at the result, and rightfully so. Another year, another disappointment. Until the team has the players that are needed, all the coaching in the world won't make a difference. Garbage, no matter who (read: coach) serves it to us, it's still gonna be garbage.

Vanney made zero adjustments from Sunday, tactically or in personnel. His opposite number made two player adjustments and focussed his tactics based on what worked on Sunday. That's nothing to do with personnel provided by the GM, it's all a difference in coaching.

[jloome]

You think Bez was going after Perquis and Kantari on his own prerogative?

THIS: Vanney played in France. He overestimated the ability of both, probably. And Bez is at least equally to blame, if not totally, for the shit job of scouting these players. When two players show up at a club and the collective expression from fans of their former clubs is SHOCK that they were signed, that's a really bad sign.

A basic lack of professionalism and bad calls on talent. At the very least it should cost Bez his job, as knowing Giovinco was a good signing doens't count for shit, I"m afraid; but I really don't think Vanney ever gave them much chance to win, either. Did we put out the same lineup or tactical setup for more than two games in a row at any time this season? Consistent teams that build together win; our players were moved from spot to spot weekly, dropped in and out of tactical changes, and simply weren't good enough to adapt to whatever it is he was trying to do.

Robbie Fucking Findley? Really? To me, that says it all right there. Because there's no way that was a "bez alone" signing, not when Vanney both played with and coached him.

[ag futbol]

Vanney made zero adjustments from Sunday, tactically or in personnel. His opposite number made two player adjustments and focussed his tactics based on what worked on Sunday. That's nothing to do with personnel provided by the GM, it's all a difference in coaching.

I still want to know what coaching adjustment stops a horrid backpass and a flat footed defender falling over his own feet. Heck what coach would tell his RB to gamble on a less than 50 / 50 ball and leave the back complete exposed if he loses the challenge (which he did).

I am no Vanney fan (would prefer if he didn't come back), but come on, there were plenty of horrid individual errors in addition to tactical problems.

THIS: Vanney played in France. He overestimated the ability of both, probably. And Bez is at least equally to blame, if not totally, for the shit job of scouting these players. When two players show up at a club and the collective expression from fans of their former clubs is SHOCK that they were signed, that's a really bad sign.

A basic lack of professionalism and bad calls on talent. At the very least it should cost Bez his job, as knowing Giovinco was a good signing doens't count for shit, I"m afraid; but I really don't think Vanney ever gave them much chance to win, either. Did we put out the same lineup or tactical setup for more than two games in a row at any time this season? Consistent teams that build together win; our players were moved from spot to spot weekly, dropped in and out of tactical changes, and simply weren't good enough to adapt to whatever it is he was trying to do.

Robbie Fucking Findley? Really? To me, that says it all right there. Because there's no way that was a "bez alone" signing, not when Vanney both played with and coached him.

Quite simply, if Bez wants to call himself GM he needs to take responsibility for what's on the roster. We better hope there is a way out of some of these contracts, otherwise our hopes of getting better in the near future are basically nil.

[MightyDM]

All right, game is over so let me get all my thoughts out on here. I know I will probably get a ton of flak for this, but I'll say it anyways.

In my mind, today's game should mark the end of the Bezbatchenko era. Not Vanney's.

I firmly believe the biggest reason we lost today was because Bez failed to build a structurally sound roster. I think Vanney made mistakes, but overall tried to do the best with what he had. As the guy tasked with building the team, Bez is the one that should bear responsibility for the state of the back line. Who can sit here and honestly tell me Vanney messed up horribly today? What specifically did he get terribly wrong? The formation was the one that's brought us our most success this season; hell, it had us outplaying Montreal for the first half on the weekend and competitive in the 2nd half save for those 10 awful minutes. Back line selection? Morrow is a given. Can we realistically say Zavaleta or Hagglund would have done better than Kantari and Williams? Jackson had a shocker, but who do you stick there instead? Delgado?

Besides Morrow, we've been grasping at straws all season at the back. Could Vanney have coached in a such a way that the back line would have been stronger? I don't know. Maybe. But I think the blame lies with Bez. All of that and we also don't have a midfielder that can sit in front of our CBs and provide an anchor for us to rely on (and yes, we're all thinking of a particular player of that type). That's on Bez too. And we started Robbie fucking Findley at RM today, with no player a significant upgrade on him on the bench (I definitely would have started Delgado or Warner, but it's not like that would have changed much). That's Bez, again.

We have holes everywhere in our lineup, and as a result I have a hard time believing Vanney just coached us out of the playoffs. I think this is a squad issue way before it's a coaching issue, and therefore I think the guy in charge of building the squad should get the axe, not the coach. It's one thing if we have talent pool that should be able to compete with the best but we just can't get it done. It's another thing when the talent pool isn't good enough. I look at the roster we had today and I don't feel like there's some kind of untapped potential. We certainly played below ourselves today, but our best today wouldn't have been a blowout win, it would've been a 1 goal squeaker. Our squad isn't that good. People always talk about how we underachieve, but it's always in the context of the money we spend (which is a little misplaced due to the salary cap and DP rule). On a player-for-player, pound-for-pound evaluation, I don't think we underachieved. I think this is what we are right now.

Now look at Montreal. They have quality depth spread out across their team. Two capable outside backs with an average CB and the best CB in the league. One of the most dangerous and creative midfielders in the league aided by speed on the flanks and defense-first focus in the middle. And a striker that scores nearly every chance, but just as importantly provides unseen levels of hold up play to maintain possession when things get bogged down in the middle of the pitch (seriously - Drogba's hold up play is almost unfairly good, no one else in the league comes anywhere close at all). They have a balanced roster and every midseason signing they made helped them achieve that balance. I suspect I will get hounded for this, but I don't think Biello is some revelation as their coach. Honest truth, I question what evidence there is for him being better than Klopas, or - yeah, I'm gonna say it - Vanney. He plays a simple 4-2-3-1 and his players basically pick themselves. Montreal didn't turn their season around by firing Klopas, they turned it around by signing Drogba, filling in some other pieces, and in the end creating a truly balanced roster. I guarantee you we would have made the playoffs last year if we signed Giovinco when Nelsen was fired. Absolutely guarantee it (we wouldn't have looked as good as Montreal do now because we had a host of other issues, but it would've been enough to get us into the playoffs, that I promise you).

This result proves that Bez utterly failed in building this squad, especially the midseason additions. I love the guy, but signing Gomez was idiotic. We needed a holding mid. And Bez simply signed the wrong guys on defense, and didn't address the hole at RM.

Now. With all of that being said, I'm not completely against the idea of firing Vanney. I think we could bring in someone else and still succeed. I think Bez has to go, or at least has to have zero say in personnel decisions moving forward and someone needs to be brought in for that. But I would be satisfied by keeping Vanney but hiring a new GM. I think overall this is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and I think we should treat it that way first, and evaluate the coaching second.

Disagree.

[MightyDM]

I still want to know what coaching adjustment stops a horrid backpass and a flat footed defender falling over his own feet. Heck what coach would tell his RB to gamble on a less than 50 / 50 ball and leave the back complete exposed if he loses the challenge (which he did).

I am no Vanney fan (would prefer if he didn't come back), but come on, there were plenty of horrid individual errors in addition to tactical problems.


Quite simply, if Bez wants to call himself GM he needs to take responsibility for what's on the roster. We better hope there is a way out of some of these contracts, otherwise our hopes of getting better in the near future are basically nil.

under Vanney, it's something like 32 out of 42 games that we went behind in the first half. Isn't that enough?

[notthesun]

Disagree.

An inspired response, but I'm going to stick with my view of things.