Can everyone in here please knock on wood.
Can everyone in here please knock on wood.
3rd isn't good enough... We spent 100million and renovated our stadium. We should be first overall, and have games in hand.
BS.
Why would Giovinco's status or our winning record (when it's due to the players) affect whether or not Vanney is a good coach? The two are totally separate. I am starting to see pretty good tactical adjustments on Vanney's part. Undoubtedly experience, plus the quality of the staff around him for him to learn from is starting to show some benefit. He had some pretty astute moves against DC, with the Altidore substitution once DC had tired legs being tactically brilliant and likely led to the win.Originally Posted by Initial B
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Suggest we all save ourselves 390 pages and just pick it up from this thread...
http://realcavsfans.com/community/in...s-coach.44309/
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Well for Real fun, you could see this RSL thread from 2007 on Kreis:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/...-kreis.610920/
I just don't like the fact that he's not a proven coach. What we need right now is someone who has experience laying out their game plan and getting players to buy into it (it could be argued that JK is doing that). Canning Ellinger was the right thing to do, but we should have replaced him with someone with more experience and a history of managing winning sides. Dumping JK into the head coaching role had a very amateurish/desperate feel to it, and that's not something our team really needed this year.
It would have been better to bring in someone who has a better coaching resume and let Jason learn from them as an assistant if he was going to someday be handed the reigns.
Klinnsman would have been a better choicebut we'll live with what we have.
I'm just curious what you don't like about Kreis. Yeah, he hasn't won much but he took over a team in shambles and it did improve, some, under him.
I'm not saying he's gonna be a great coach, but I think it's too early to write him off. You guys are there, though, so you have obviously different insight, hence my question.Or my favourite...RSL PPG under John Ellinger = 0.897
RSL PPG under Jason Kreis = 0.880
RSL % of games won under John Ellinger = 22
RSL % of games won under Jason Kreis = 20
RSL % of games with at least a draw under John Ellinger = 46
RSL % of games with at least a draw under Jason Kreis = 48
doesn't sound too different from us, does it?everyone here should be on their knees praying that kreis does not suck total ass in his second season. i hate coaching revolving doors, but i refuse to put up with the same old average crap. if kreis starts off next year like ellinger did his second season, start looking for the fire kreis threads from me. he hasnt proven much yet, hopefully he can prove me wrong and become a decent coach. i hate to say it, but im betting against him.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 06-08-2015 at 09:39 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Oldtimer, you love the Kreis analogy, but it's just one data point, and not very relevant - totally different mgmt setup, and a long time ago now
I agree that Vanney should be given a year, and I said that lots wanted him gone.
Last edited by ensco; 06-08-2015 at 09:52 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
There was/is a "Fire Jim Curtin" thread in the Philly section on Big Soccer too.
They are doing ok now...
It's more the supporter attitudes that I was pointing out, they are quite funny as they mirror us so well! I have no idea how good Vanney will turn out. He seems to be tactically-minded and willing to learn. I like the technical way the team is playing right now. Those are all good attributes. Just like with the "Deathwatch" statement, calling him Kreis 2.0 is wayyyy too early at this point.
Another good analogy. Supporters tend to be very impatient. When management mirrors that and fires the coach every year, you end up like NY were for many years, going on-and-on without ever winning anything.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Ive always called for him to stay for at least this season. That being said i understand why people wanted him gone (8 years of garbage and mismanagement). My biggest thing was not so much that they wanted to rush him out the door but that a) they had no reasonable potential replacement and b)hated the fact that we had fired so many coaches in the past but wanted to do the same here. Super happy to see him stay, its still to early to call him a success but he has done well.
Vanney seems to have put it together, great, but still does not mean that with the start of the season, we should not have been looking around for a proven coach, as the signs were not positive until this run started. Clearly now he has earned an opportunity, but lets face it a stretch of horrible games and that picture changes. It is the nature of the job.
................ We started the season with SEVEN STRAIGHT ROAD MATCHES... you cannot judge a manager based on such a small sample size that is so heavily skewed against them. I talked about the fact that he's mostly been in charge of road matches and to confirm that, he's managed 24 MLS matches thus far. 58% of those matches have been on the road. He's just finally catching up to having played an equal number at home and away which is a much better sample to crucify a manager over (if you feel the lust to do so).
We started the season off 3-4 on the road. We're now 4-4-1 on the road. How is that a horrible stretch? We have the best road record in the league (points wise), and we're the third best road team (points per game).
"Now he has earned an opportunity" - man, we as a fanbase called out MLSE all the time for their snap judgements in the past however we consistently raise the pitchforks prematurely.
Every (almost) manager is fired eventually.
We should just use a VanneyCon #. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON
I'd say we are at VanneyCon 4.
I will not say that your few is not valid. Clearly, it is, and right now Vanney is looking good. But road or not, I think 24 games is a fair sample size, and particularly for me, was not the record by the quality on the pitch particularly on the defensive side. Even if you consider that he was mostly on the road you would figure he would get more draws.
I think we just fundamentally differ on how long a manager should be given prior to determining their fate. 24 isn't even 3/4 of a single season. If we're using that as a template to fire coaches we're never going to create any consistency.
To bring in hockey (shudder), I loved what Babcock had to say in his introduction. He talked about the need to create a state where players felt safe to do their job. There's so much media scrutiny and overreaction to everything in Toronto that it becomes impossible to achieve anything.
This is why I wanted Nelson to be given time and was upset with his firing, and also why I now will fully support giving vanney at LEAST 2 full years, but my preference would be 3. Let the team grow together, just once and then we can see how that will turn out.
^ But too me is more then how many games, it is also what is happening on the pitch, if the manager has 10 games, they are losing 6-0 and running into one another on the pitch, particularly if there is not track record, then 10 games is more then enough. I do not see these thinks in absolute terms but examine them on a case by case bases.
But again, as I was saying at the time to just fire him when there was no quality replacement was not something worth doing.
This is good but I liked using the doomsday clock analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock
At one point I had Vanney at 3 minutes to Midnight and I was expecting it to drop to 2 minutes after our 2 home matches but after this run of form, I would probably reset the clock to a full 5 minutes to Midnight.
All Vanney questioning was appropriate earlier. Now he has made adjustments and players are performing. Things can change but right now, he should be safe. I still however believe an Italian is lined up somewhere just waiting for the right time to step in.
Scolari signs with Guangzhou evergrande. I'm not advocating firing vanney but if you have the money, you can hire a big name
No points again this weekend. Fire Vanney.
LOL!!!! Well played!
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
Or he did not lose so keep him.
His tactics were a mystery to us all.
The players were completely absent.
It's not entirely their fault, how could they win when the supporters made no noise?
Fucking Creavalle didn't do anything once again. But what really baffles me is his decision not to start Giovinco. He's been ace for us the last few weeks. Now he doesn't even see the pitch, and of course we didn't win
Letting Giovinvo go to the Bahamas for a few days, disgraceful stuff. #VanneyOut
This is one I always love.
It's like their heads were somewhere else...
Inzaghi fired from Milan
11;34 PM 26' till MIDNIGHT
^ I think it should be 11:45, he bought some time during the good run, but not that much.
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