Kantari and Williams both seem like "For now" pick ups.Originally Posted by Jack
Kantari and Williams both seem like "For now" pick ups.
Gomez isn't exactly a long-term signing, either. We picked up three players that, on the surface, addressed the areas we needed to address. They might not be as good as we'd like, but I am pleased that our management was doing something to shore up our weak areas.
I am concerned about Vanneys tactics in today's NER match. Like several previous matches we have lost, he keeps Bradley forward even whenCheyrou and or Warner are not there as CDM. With predictable results. We gave up the first goal in the first half again. The statistics on this are incredible and not in his favour. Something wrong.
I agree. the solution is simple, there is no salary cap on coaches, Bez should get on an airplane to Iceland right now and offer their national team coach a $10 million contract!!
no...BEZ should be looking for another job never mind looking for another coach.
Actually, I agreed with his tactics. A high offense forced their strong attackers back for most of the game. This loss isn't on him. It's on our forwards not finishing, combined with two enormous brain-farts. You can't coach away stupidity, it even occurs with otherwise good players at times (Michael Bradley, what were you thinking?).
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Bradley up on the big screen shouting at himself "Fucking Hell" pretty much answered that question.
Ya, that was an incredibly major vapour lock by our captain.
Pain.
I really just want to move on from this game and forget all about it. Honestly, even Giovinco should have had 1 or 2 goals. We just didn't have the luck on our side yesterday as much as NER had it on theirs. That's football. I think we win that game 9 times out of 10 - but that won't happen when you burn your chances like we did.
So moving on ...
This is becoming very obvious and I am shocked that anyone would see it differently. It's not about the mistakes yesterday - they are symptoms not causes - it's obvious, over many games, that we lack spine and can't shut teams down.
It's one thing for Klinsmann to do play Bradley forward when he has Jermaine Jones and Omar Gonzalez etc, behind Bradley, but with the spine we have, this is nuts.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Vanney deserves some criticism, but I don't think the results of the last two games reflect the way we played for the most part. It's tough to pin the blame entirely on the manager when individual errors cost us points in both matches. We deserved a draw in Seattle and a victory yesterday based on the run of play.
Exactly. There are times for drama, and Vanney is not perfect, but this game isn't one of those times.
If he had played Bradley back, TFC would have been forced into a defensive shell, and the Revs would have just peppered shots at our goal, with pretty well the same result or worse.
Sometimes it's on the players, and this pretty clearly was one of those times.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Bradley isn't a DM. Suggesting its Vanney's fault for the lack of a DM is suggesting that its Vanney's fault for Cheyrou's injury and Warner's rush of blood to his head about the Mohawk'd one dribbling past Cheyrou down on the ground.
If anything, its Bez's fault for us not having a 3rd possible player to play DM. That's a pretty minor quibble in this league where most teams don't have 3 decent DM's. And we had one - he flamed out at RB and went off so we could get some allocation to get Gomez.
Vanney should of never had Altidore out left and Giovinco in the middle.
The coach is there to coach away stupidity,either by practicing until stupidity is kept to a minimal and/or organizing in a way that mistakes are minimized. As good as we have been offesively, he has not improved us defensively, and this is why we get back to this thread, after most losses because we are simply not good enough defensively, and in the football world it is on him.
But now it is too late. It is what it is, lets hope that Giovinco and Co can score 3+ a game and maybe we will be ok.
i would have been much happier with Moore in the middle with gionvino and altidore at his sides
Findley had a good game though, to be fair. A 4-3-3 going forward with Altidore in the middle and a midfield of Bradley - Cheyrou - Warner/Osorio wouldn't be bad going forward.
Michael Bradley has been coached by some of the best coaches in Italy. Stupidity happens, even with otherwise good players who have had excellent training.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
It's Vanney's fault if he uses Bradley in a role that requires DM coverage, and there isn't any DM coverage.
I was satisfied with the Seattle game, but anyone who thinks yesterday was just of of those days is wrong, imho. Every good team we play does the same thing to us, and wins without breaking into a sweat.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Problem is we have individual errors that cost goals. On other MLS teams when one guy does an MLS level mistake that team will have usually a guy or two covering for that mistake. It seems that when we have our mistake moments we have 3 or more players all going to shit at the same time while the rest just stand there and watch. These compounded errors speak of the squads inability to focus completely for 90 minutes and that's on the coach.
So if Bradley was played as a DM as many of you think he should have, how many more defensive mistakes would he have made that cost us goals?
Fact is, he's best as offensive or box-to-box, not as a DM. Vanney called this one right.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
its more than the coach, theyve been working on a nation wide reform of football for a decade or so now, something Canada could use
Bradley is not an attacking mid. He is either a box-to-box midfielder or a DM, although he is too aggressive going forward when he has played in that role this year. He is not a true AM, playing up there has its advantages, because he is tenacious and aggressive and he creates, and has good vision.
Bradley is also not being coached in Italy at the moment, but by Vanney in Canada, so he is Vanney's player, so what he does is Vanney's responsibility. That is the nature of being a manager. He is not a trainer, but a manager. A manager is ultimately responsible for the performance of his group. BY the way a group is a collection of individuals, so at some point all groups mistakes can be seen as individual mistakes, but no matter how one sees it we have made to many of them, and we are not getting enough of this group of individuals.
In football, I do not know about hockey, but in football managers mater. A good manager gets the most out of his group of individuals. Vanney has done well offensively, but unfortunately not well enough to counterbalance our continued defensive deficiencies.
This is the bottom line, we can pussy foot around it, we can be partisan to Vanney, who admittedly has his qualities as a manager, but in one key area he keeps on failing. That is the reality. Now I will give you this, this late in the season it is late to fire him, there are not enough games left for it to make a difference.
We may still make the play offs, but we will need a miracle turnaround on defense and/or monster performances on offense to get anything more, then perhaps just getting in the play-offs.
I am looking at this thread it was started on May 13 of this year. This is not a new problem, and it continued from last year. This team just does not defend well enough, to be a serious contender.
This last one irks me, Vanney plays Creavalle out of his natural position and performs terribly as a RB, he then becomes the scape goat and is shipped off to get Gomez who has done fuck all since he came here, for some reason Vanney cant find it in him to play him ahead of Findley who has been shite all year since until last game.
So we had a pretty decent midfielder from what I saw in Creavalle who was given the short end of the stick being played out of position, and now we got an extra forward to do nothing instead of an extra depth midfielder.
Not saying putting Creavalle into the NER match would have solved things, but I sure as hell didn't see our extra veteran forward being put to use in a match where we were getting 20+shots.
Last edited by Richard; 09-14-2015 at 04:12 PM.
Ok, but it's not like Vanney has been getting Bradley to unlearn what he learned in Italy. It's really unfair to blame him for the defensive mistake Bradley made. That's on the player 100%.
As far as Bradley's best position, I'll agree he's not a true AM, but he's not a DM either. Box to box really is what he is at his best.
There was no DM.
Any game against NER requires a DM.
Chicago and Orlando have worse defences then ours,truth be told.
We were playing a tilted 3-4-3, which effectively is like playing a 5-2-3, with at least one centre back left over to offer cover. So you don't really need it. What we need is better defenders. Perquis, Williams are shit, Kantari may be too. Zavaletta and Hagglund both have promise but some issues.
We outhshot them 21-4 and we outpossessed them 60-40. We gave them two of their three goals. Why anyone thinks this has anything to do with Greg Vanney is beyond me.
EDIT: I'll also add that I don't think Bez really scouted Perquis or Kantari, he just took them on pedigree. Fans from both clubs were quite clear they were baffled by TFC's decision, as both defenders had been average for most of their career and shit for some time.
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