Given the ultimatum from Manning, Vanney needs 8 points from the road trip or he's gone.
Given the ultimatum from Manning, Vanney needs 8 points from the road trip or he's gone.
Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud
It's "I can easily replace you if I want."
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Even with Vanney, your new price of $17 is a bargain to watch Giovinco play. Sorry you didn't renew.
so who will be the coach after they go 1- 5-2 next season?
You know what, I thought Manning had been around longer. He talked about "2 weeks" in his presser today. I just checked, he was announced on Oct. 12th, I thought it had been much earlier than that. I guess time crawls when you're miserable...
After hearing the full interview from Manning, I'm a bit less upset. Context matters. He sounded pretty reasonable.
However, I don't know if the comparisons with Kreis' first seasons at RSL that Manning made, & the overall "improvement" mantra, are really so useful. Kreis wasn't gifted a player like Seba for example. Manning talked about the improved number of points since last year, but I would say that was 99% Seba, & 0% Vanney. Defensively, I think we actually gave up 4 more goals than last year.
Oh well, I guess we have to live with it now. Somehow I was hoping for something more encouraging, especially as I have to make decisions about season tickets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_gxUam-ccY
This is worth a watch. "Straight shooter" is an understatement.
I wish you would stop with this tripe, on almost every thread. Show me where they will sell me a ticket for $17. It's $646 for a pair of season tickets, and it's going to keep going up excessively. After 9 years of TFC frustration, most of the people from my family & from work who used to go to games with me, aren't interested anymore. People are feeling even more hopeless for next season, due to Vanney, pitch chewed up by CFL, and more. Often I'm going alone to games as a result -- so they want me to pay $646 up front for what will often be a single seat. And if I did manage to sell a single or a pair of tickets for a game this year, it was often only for $15 per seat. It's hardly worth the hassle when there's so little demand, and the team is so inept in many aspects. I can see Seba on TV for much less than that. Plus I can usually pick up single tickets for $15 or less from others, sometimes free, w/o having to worry about the whole season.
At the most, sharing with a seat neighbour who's in the same boat makes more sense, which was my latest plan. Now he's not getting back to me. I wonder if he's changed his mind after today...
Fraser because no one of any use will be available that early and Kreis will be gone. Unless they totally clean house and then it'll be Bent I guess.
Then we give that person a year and a half or so because stability is important and then we can keep going from one inexperienced guy to another as not many guys with good resumes are floating around when we fire guys in May/June.
And that's why things never work out here. It's not that we change managers so often, it's that we fire them at the wrong times and then replace them with inexperienced options.
Not if we improve nothing and stand pat. Then he, like us, will be hit and miss to do anything offensively just like it was down the stretch when teams froze Seba out for full matches. Then I will assume he will get massively frustrated and you could see it growing in him as the season wound down and then he will leave. By the time that all goes down in 2017 that $17 will be $20+ and we'll be looking at another rebuild at an inflated cost.
All because we crave stability. At least we will be stable at inconsistency.
Plus I almost forgot that we'll get to see all this with a chewed up pitch to boot. Now that's value.
Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 11-03-2015 at 04:48 PM.
Watching the videos, Bezbatchenko has really improved on his public speaking. Not really related to this thread, but found it interesting.
i will still support TFC...probs will go to most of the games,but i will not renew,they will not get my 4 k up front.how these 2 clowns still have a job
first 8 games on the road...bradley and jozy and seba probs missing 6 to 9-10 games next season,they really take our fan base for granted.
These are all things that are par for the course. We wanted a roof so we ht the road for 8. We wanted good players so then you lose them as well for a bunch of matches. It's how things go. No one likes it but it is what it is.
Now by not doing desso or the tile system and letting the pitch get mangled and by keeping a manager who isn't up to task along with the price increase are signs that they take us for granted.
Based on their comments, it feels like our top 3 stars aren't down with the Vanney. The fact that he's staying is concerning no? Is our club going to side with Vanney if they were to say "I want the fuck out of his clueless shitshow?"
Last thing I want is these guys getting the "this club is fucking unfixable" feel in their gut.
As always interesting to see other peoples interpretations of what people say/how they act.
Can continue to say i dont agree with most on the forum.
You ARE in a Vanney hate thread.
BTW, I do believe in stability, and if Kreis did turn TFC down it would be best to give Vanney another year as he is genuinely showing that he is learning.
I'm not being a dick but honestly, what has he shown that points to him learning? I see no difference from first 10 matches to the last 10 from his side other than the fact that Seba was no surprise anymore and our game plan was easy to negate after teams saw us a few times. I didn't see a whole lot of answers from him but I saw a few questionable moves.
Uh, you know we are not playing a home game until the first couple of weeks of May?
We kick off the season with 8 games on the road. Worst case scenario is that this stretch will be awful and Manning will have to act and fire Vanning. If this happens we're looking at a new coach in May, and that's not likely to be an experienced one like Kreis. So we're probably looking at Fraser at that point. He'll want to make changes, and that'll be tough to do once the season is deep into games. Very likely if Vanney doesn't work out in that first 8 game stretch then the season will be a loss. Then look to get another inexperienced guy at the helm, he'll need a full off-season and will "deserve" a new season of his own. Rinse, repeat. We've seen it before.
To me the problem was never stability. Could any of you imagine giving Winter or Mariner 2 season starts? How do you figure that would have gone? How about Mo as coach? 2 season starts? I guess not. So the problem is not stability as much as it's finding a proper coach who can do something good that would allow him to EARN to stay beyond one season. That's when we will finally get some stability. But we have to weather the storm of Vanney who has lost the dressing room and have proven so far to not be able to fix the defense. Last 10 games in 2014 had 1.5 goals against per game. 2015 1.7 goals against per game. Meanwhile Vanney says he doesn't believe we need a new (or another) CB.
It's worrisome. But I hope that Manning is the difference maker.
I think Vanney may be right in that we don't necessarily need a new CB, I think the back line could use some better protection as defense is a team tactic and a lot of our defensive issues can be blamed on the midfield or forwards not tracking back.
He tinkered with the tactics all year long, and yet the problem persisted. Got worse towards the end. I definitely think we need a very strong CB. It's pretty much the first thing that comes to mind when I think about a NEED on this team, here and now.
So happy that we have a President that has not only preached stability but is acting upon it now. Love that we are keeping Vanney.. and completely agree with needing to give coaches 3 years, I've said it before and it's nice to see the President say the exact same thing.
STABILITY.. FINALLY!
Stability light. He gets 8 games basically. Short leash. Vanney falls short in those 8 games of 8 pts (or about) then we'll be looking for a new coach in May. Do you still feel happy?
You only want stability when you have a winning coach, which vanney is far from.
I only keep replying because you and others in light grey keep saying there is a 42 per cent increase, (in every thread, btw,) but it is up to $323 for 19 games which is only $17, which needs to be said.
if you don't want to renew because it isn't worth $17 that's your call, and I respect it (but urge you to reconsider). We have great times at TFC no matter how infuriating it can be. However, the 42 per cent argument doesn't sit with me because the absolute price level of these tickets isn't outrageous. That's all.
and I said it all politely this time. Don't leave us!
This is how I feel. I felt Nelsen should have been given the season and we should have had a proper search if he did not make the playoffs.
That wasn't to be. Now that we have seen Vanney for a season and a quarter we know that his tactics have appalling weaknesses defensively, particularly in midfield protecting the defence, and sometimes in selections. For example, after the adjustments Montreal made in the second half of the last game of the regular season, it was clear Vanney needed to make tactical or strategic adjustments. He could have started with a 4-2-3-1 in the playoff game, could have played Warner ahead of Jackson instead of Findley, could have played Morgan with Morrow at RB and Jackson ahead of him. All of those were done during the regular season and worked, in some games. Instead, he did nothing. Totally puzzling. Furthermore, he doesn't get the best out of Bradley and Altidore.
On on the other hand, and to be fair because I have always been concerned about him, from the first game he coached in which we conceded to a poor Philly team and lost, he has shown some signs of improvement - I couldn't make the comment I made above if he had not played those combinations during the season, successfully. Not enough for me, but it must be said.
I am wondering if one of his weaknesses is an inability to handle superstars. Jozy, who can do great things, should have come off the bench for the playoff game and we should have started in the 4-2-3-1. Bradley is fantastic but the balance is never right when he is in the team. On the other hand, Osorio and Delgado blossomed under Vanney and we often played well when some or all the DP's were not available - see, Red Bulls. Perhaps his apparently too calm manner, or perhaps top level players don't respect him, but it could be a serious issue.
now he is coming back, but on a short leash. Us that smart? Surely if management thinks he should return it should be with full support, a clear analysis, and a strategy to buttress his weaknesses. Simply saying 8 in 8 isn't fair to him, or the club.
Last edited by MightyDM; 11-03-2015 at 11:08 PM.
wow. Inspires, and exudes, confidence.
Manning's decision is silly. Unless Vanney has a magical transformation over the winter, he will be fired after 8 games, and then we will be back to picking the first person available. I thought we were going in the right direction, but once again MLSE corporate stupidity think seems to be penetrating.
Oldtimer, this is not a Vanney hate thread read the discussion on here. At the end of the day it is an honest assessment for what he is. Give him another year because he is learning? Based on what do you make that conclusion?
Anyway it is what it is. Our owners are losers in terms of sport and despite of true signs of improvement the lack of true leadership, and people who can read and analyze the situation realistically has hurt as again. This is ship run by middle managers who are afraid to rock the boat. We kept Vanney for stability, to show us what he can do, and he has shown that he cannot organize his team defensively. I am ok with not firing him if you have no good replacement, but this means that they will not be looking, UNTILL the season is well underway. THat is ridiculous.
I'm pretty darn sure Manning has a list in his head of who he will go to as a replacement for either Bez or Vanney if things don't improve. Guys been around the game a long time and knows coaches and player evaluators at various levels.
Almost all decent MLS coaches have come up from the college level - I would not be surprised to see a replacement come from that route.
He didn't say he believes in Vanney.
I did not want Vanney, yet another rookie hired without a search, same for Bez. While I have been excited about Bradley and Gio, I have always worried that you really can't build a team that his way (and that was before this year's bizarre scenario, where all the teams with the lowest payrolls are at the top of the standings). So I want change.
But I want thoughtful change. For a change.
Manning has the hand he was dealt, not the hand he wants. Leiweke had a blank sheet, not so this time. A hundred million has been invested in 3 players. Most of the roster constructed around trying to build chemistry for those three players. That plan, like it or hate it, could possibly yet work, if it gels. You can't say it won't, even if you don't fancy the odds.
Hiring Kreis means going nuclear and starting over.
So he will let it ride, then blow it up if it doesn't turn.
Given that, I LOVED the 8 game test. He is telling Bradley, the team, the fans, very clearly where he stands here. It isn't his plan, so don't expect patience or any understanding. Only results will hold him off.
The cost is losing Kreis to Philly or wherever, but I can live with that. Blowing this up is another 2-3 year process, it's worth something to be careful about that given the history here.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
^
Why is replacing a coach blowing up and starting over. Managers come in all the time and the team moves forward, without any blow up , but with changes in approach and tactics, some player change can be done in the off season but this is not a roster that has to be blown up.
I want thought full change too, but it is better in the off-season, then 8 games in. Having said that I like what I have heard from Manning I just do not like giving Vanney the 8 games, because there is no logical reason to think that Vanney will improve for the 8 games.
Last edited by trane; 11-04-2015 at 08:20 AM.
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