The Vanney Era Deathwatch Thread

[pdubs]

He is the only real option. If he was available and interested I would take him 100%. He would represent a natural progression and not a tear down.

At this point I don't think restarting with a new direction and manager is the way to go this off season. Now if Vanney flounders or we get more of the same next year then yes but not this winter.

Like this point of view. Kreis is exactly what we need. MLS level coaching vet, with a big payroll and not hampered by old DP's like at NYCFC. If not Kreis or so other MLS coach then I would play the waiting game with Vanney. Vanney has a lot of potential unfortunately expectations will be raised next season. This year I am satisfied with playoffs and lots of people have and will call me out for that. Next year tho if Vanney is still at the helm, first round bye it the minimum for me.

[brad]

The defensive issues are not just on the back 4. Midfield do not provide enough cover, and goalkeeping is also suspect.

Think it was a mistake going into the season with Caldwell as a stater in the back due to his age and injuries, and it hurt us. Let's hope the offseason sees the back line strengthened and goal keeping situation improved.

Midfield is likely a tactical shift - don't really think we need things stregthened there. To me - it seems like Vanney needs to find the balance between attack and defense.

[Yohan]

The defensive issues are not just on the back 4. Midfield do not provide enough cover, and goalkeeping is also suspect.

Think it was a mistake going into the season with Caldwell as a stater in the back due to his age and injuries, and it hurt us. Let's hope the offseason sees the back line strengthened and goal keeping situation improved.

Midfield is likely a tactical shift - don't really think we need things stregthened there. To me - it seems like Vanney needs to find the balance between attack and defense.

Midfield problem can easily solved by a DM who is defensively aware (a la Laba) or covers a lot of ground (Alonso, Chara). Honestly, a good DM allows you to do so many things. Cheyrou is not a good DM. more of a supporting CM in a 5 man midfield is about all he's good for now.

[kwhisperer]

TFC 15W-15L-4D

Bradley 11-12-2
Altidore 9-11-3

w/o Bradley 4-3-2
w/o Altidore 6-4-1

So not only do they both miss a bunch of games (nearly 1/3) to USMNT duties, they also don't seem to help the winning pct.

Here's a better way to build a team
Cheyrou 14-11-3
w/o Cheyrou 1-4-1

Enough with the overpaid US Internationals

Interesting numbers.

Is there a number for games without both?

[C.Ronaldo]

Interesting numbers.

Is there a number for games without both?

cheyrou, osario, giovinco. pivotal roles!!!

[trane]

I am not for a tare down but for finding someone who could build on what Vanney has done, unless we are talking about someone trully expection and with a proven track record, BUT I am not for letting go of Vanney just to replace him once again with the first guy that sends a resume. If there are no good candiates then you do not replace Vanney.

[OgtheDim]

TFC 15W-15L-4D

Bradley 11-12-2
Altidore 9-11-3

w/o Bradley 4-3-2
w/o Altidore 6-4-1

So not only do they both miss a bunch of games (nearly 1/3) to USMNT duties, they also don't seem to help the winning pct.

Here's a better way to build a team
Cheyrou 14-11-3
w/o Cheyrou 1-4-1

Enough with the overpaid US Internationals

Yes, lets just over react shall we without seeing the context of the games involved.

Our record this season was 15-15-4


BTW, both Bradley and Cheyrou were excellent in the first half on Sunday.

And both were crap in the second half.


Choose your poison.

[Kamp Berg]

TFC 15W-15L-4D

Bradley 11-12-2
Altidore 9-11-3

w/o Bradley 4-3-2
w/o Altidore 6-4-1

So not only do they both miss a bunch of games (nearly 1/3) to USMNT duties, they also don't seem to help the winning pct.

Here's a better way to build a team
Cheyrou 14-11-3
w/o Cheyrou 1-4-1

Enough with the overpaid US Internationals

I don't know if you can really say that Bradley is not worth having on your team, but I would say you could make two points: Osorio has really stepped up and could be the future CM for this team. And that some of the players crap out a bit when Bradley is on the field. You can't blame that on Bradley but it does need to be corrected. My biggest criticism of Bradley is that sometimes he seems to think he is playing with the USMT when he is playing for TFC. TFC just isn't good enough for him to play the same for both. He needs to compensate when he is with TFC.

[SirBobSaget]

I don't know if you can really say that Bradley is not worth having on your team, but I would say you could make two points: Osorio has really stepped up and could be the future CM for this team. And that some of the players crap out a bit when Bradley is on the field. You can't blame that on Bradley but it does need to be corrected. My biggest criticism of Bradley is that sometimes he seems to think he is playing with the USMT when he is playing for TFC. TFC just isn't good enough for him to play the same for both. He needs to compensate when he is with TFC.

Since you mention Osorio
Starting Osorio 13-11-2
w/o Osorio 2-4-2

And on and on, basically Altidore and Bradley were not difference makers. Replace them with DPs from strong international countries and we would be way better off. If your calling up an Italian from MLS its because he's lighting it up, calling a USMNT is just because.

[Kamp Berg]

Since you mention Osorio
Starting Osorio 13-11-2
w/o Osorio 2-4-2

And on and on, basically Altidore and Bradley were not difference makers. Replace them with DPs from strong international countries and we would be way better off. If your calling up an Italian from MLS its because he's lighting it up, calling a USMNT is just because.

It's pretty hard to argue with your last point!

[ensco]

Bradley had lots of moments but was not one of the top 5 CMs in MLS this year (well, you could argue this, he was maybe around the 5th best in the league). Altidore was not one of the top 5 strikers either.

They cost $11M and are not really moving the needle competitively enough. Plus people are not buying tickets to see them.

Is it them, or Vanney? Somebody better come to an opinion fast on that, because these two are still owed $45M

[Kamp Berg]

Altidore appears to need an attitude adjustment. If he can make one, I think he is a good fit for the team and for Giovinco. That said, there are other strong hold up strikers that would fit just as well.
As for Bradley, I think the issue is that the team is not built for a box to box midfielder. In our present set up we need a strong dm and a cam. Funny enough it seems like Osorio and Laba could have addressed those needs (maybe).

[Oldtimer]

TFC 15W-15L-4D

Bradley 11-12-2
Altidore 9-11-3

w/o Bradley 4-3-2
w/o Altidore 6-4-1

So not only do they both miss a bunch of games (nearly 1/3) to USMNT duties, they also don't seem to help the winning pct.

Here's a better way to build a team
Cheyrou 14-11-3
w/o Cheyrou 1-4-1

Enough with the overpaid US Internationals

This is a perfect example of "how to lie with statistics." In almost all of the games that Bradley missed there was a USMNT and other NT matches going on, same with the majority of Altidore's absences. That means that our opponents were also missing key players. So it's not a simple question of "do you subtract our DPs and win" because you need the other clubs to subtract their DPs as well.

[ensco]

This is a perfect example of "how to lie with statistics." In almost all of the games that Bradley missed there was a USMNT and other NT matches going on, same with the majority of Altidore's absences. That means that our opponents were also missing key players. So it's not a simple question of "do you subtract our DPs and win" because you need the other clubs to subtract their DPs as well.

You've made the right point with the wrong argument. The correct question is, how does the record break down home vs away?

The "net DP" factor is probably pretty trivial.

[Oldtimer]

You've made the right point with the wrong argument. The correct question is, how does the record break down home vs away?

The "net DP" factor is probably pretty trivial.

You've got a point, however, the problem isn't with my argument, so to speak, it's that the wrong questions are being asked. I would not say the net DP factor is trivial, whether Montreal has Drogba or not (for example) is huge. As you've mentioned, though, home vs. away is much more important. In that, TFC is very similar to other teams that made the playoffs. The difference from top to bottom in the playoff bracket is very small.

[Areathrasher]

Similar to how Marc Dos Santos is going to SKC to be an assistant to Vermes.

Are there any coaches in NASL/USL with great defensive records that could come in and assist Vanney and Fraser on the defensive side of things?

[Oldtimer]

Similar to how Marc Dos Santos is going to SKC to be an assistant to Vermes.

Are there any coaches in NASL/USL with great defensive records that could come in and assist Vanney and Fraser on the defensive side of things?

[Areathrasher]

#WhereisPreki

[ag futbol]

Assume that's sarcasm but defence needs to be taken in context. Preki's teams do not play great defence, they simply play defensive above all else.

It's not a winning strategy in this league anymore unless you can find some balance in the counter attack (which he never did).

He'd play defensive if we were down 2-0 with 20 minutes left. What is that doing other than sandbagging your stats?

[Ultra & Proud]

Preki's teams do not play great defence, they simply play defensive above all else.

But his team here was no matter what, the best defensive showing we've had. And that roster was f'ing terrible.

[brad]

But his team here was no matter what, the best defensive showing we've had. And that roster was f'ing terrible.

If that was our best defensive showing, that is pretty sad. Out of 16 teams, we were 10th worst for goals against...

My strongest memory of Preki games where watching us sit back at the end of the match, hoof the ball out aimlessly to the opposition over and over, tire out and concede late goals.

[ag futbol]

But his team here was no matter what, the best defensive showing we've had. And that roster was f'ing terrible.

When you want to play 9 men behind the ball at all times that will happen. All this is doing is creating a statistical mirage that we are competitive when we were not.

I disagree it was the best defence, because we often positioned ourselves defensively while being behind on the score board - which is pointless. I'll take a team that loses 3-1 and gets caught on the counter while trying to tie over one that is too scared to leave its own end and basically cements a 2-1 loss.

[Shakes McQueen]

Prekiball was awful. It's not that hard to play defense, if that's ALL you play.

[pdubs]

One of Vanney's main goals was to play more attacking and positive soccer. We are doing that. Problem is we don't really have that solid leader on the back line/keeper to keep things organized. We have no balance.

A lot of our goals we let in this year were off idiotic defending, laziness and some questionable team selections. Granted injuries happen but Perquis/Kantari are not the stud defenders we were looking for. Both are #2's in MLS. Not sure if their wage justifies both of them being here, especially since Williams looks like a solid MLS CB and Zavaleta is looking good.. If Bez/Vanney can't recognize we still need a legit #1 CB and a new Keeper, then both of them should be out of here.

This isn't the transfer thread but they also need a legit DM. Warner good backup, Cheyrou can't cover all that ground anymore.

Still like the core that Vanney/Bez have made. Just need some key pieces to complete the team, pushing guys more into depth roles.

[pdubs]

Forgot what I just said. Vanney needs to go. Last thing I expected was our team to shit the bed if our first playoff game and embarrass us so badly. His team selection was terrible and he didn't mix things up enough even when down 3-0. Needs to be gone. Bez idk... certain players should never wear our jersey again.

[Initial B]

After watching this game, I'll be okay if Vanney is let go after this season. I just watched him get out-coached by an interim replacement with even less MLS experience than he has. Vanney made no changes to the lineup from what I saw on Sunday, while the Montreal coach made adjustments and reaped the benefits. Vanney hasn't taught them how to defend this season, either. Perhaps he isn't the second coming of Kreis after all.

And if Bez hasn't made major changes by the time training camp rolls around, Fire him.

[ag futbol]

I'm okay with a coaching change but....


1) no reinventing the wheel and coach to a coach who wants to rebuild the whole roster because he plays a completely different style. We need to work with what we have to a certain extent.

2) Bez walks plank as well. Sorry human calculator, you are not good enough.

[Richard]

We should probably add in Bez's name into the thread title, they both got an equal part in this.

[ronzilla]

Bez deserves another year, vanney doesn't deserve another minute.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Everyone who is ripping on Vanney, what do you want him to do? If you give the chef rotten ingredients, he will not produce a gourmet meal. Bezbatchenko needs to provide Vanney with players who are capable of providing defense. We are all pissed at the result, and rightfully so. Another year, another disappointment. Until the team has the players that are needed, all the coaching in the world won't make a difference. Garbage, no matter who (read: coach) serves it to us, it's still gonna be garbage.