Despite the confidence in my previous post, I'm actually quite conflicted on whether bunkering, when we are ahead and trying to close-out and hoping for the occasional lucky counter versus parking the bus. Our history of blowing leads and ties late in the game has left me with some sort of TFC PTSD.Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen
We should go back to you original question, if we were to make changes in the back line - what should they be? It's a good question!
"Failure simply isn't an option at this stage. TFC pushed its chips to the middle of the table when it splurged on Bradley and Defoe and reinforced its bet by making savvy acquisitions elsewhere. This collection of players is capable of delivering on the promises made during the close season. There are no more excuses available for TFC. Only success will continue the process of atoning for the past and establishing a higher standard for the future." FOX Sports
True. But climbing a big mountain feels better than going up a hill.
The out of it by mid season point is also true for mid table EPL teams too. No real relegation danger, no chance to win. I don't think their attendance suffers
Last edited by Pookie; 05-03-2015 at 10:48 AM.
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And an established league filled with teams that have existed for generations, knitted into the very fabric of the communities they play in, with allegiance being a borderline religious responsibility in many cases.
It'd be like a soccer league filled with the equivalent of the Montreal Canadiens (EPL), versus a league filled with the equivalent of the Florida Panthers (MLS).
Maybe 30 years from now they can move to a more "traditional" European format, but for now, the playoff format is a smart move. Keeps fans interested longer, because more teams have more to play for, for more time.
And frankly, I don't see why the European format is so much better anyway. Put more emphasis on the achievement of winning the Supporters Shield, keep the playoff format in, and you can have the best of both worlds.
Bam, done. I'm a problem solver.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
So how do you put more emphasis on the Shield?
Current winner (and #2 seed) already get through the knock out round and have the inside edge to host the Cup final.
What would be wrong with making the playoffs more exclusive… like an MLB format? I prefer the old MLB where just the division champs moved on but even now… 5 of 15 qualify. 33%. Versus 12 of 20 or 60%
Take it further there are 2 expansion clubs this year. If the East, if two of the ten are expansion clubs that generally finish last… TFC's odds to make it should be about 75% (6 of 8). That's better than the Argos chances this year..
I agree the diluted form of MLS playoffs is sub-optimal. They should really tighten things up. Not opposed to playoffs but please avoid including more than half the league. MLB type format definitely makes sense IMO.
Btw was anyone actually interested through the entire playoffs last year? It was too long and disjointed IMO.
Last edited by ag futbol; 05-03-2015 at 12:29 PM.
The off weeks didn't help that at all.
I think an expanded playoff format should look at rewarding the top two teams in both conferences more. Straight qualification to the conference semis perhaps?
Could sweeten SS challenge by attaching a $200K* GarberBuxs gift certificate to the win.
* or whatever amount would make it an incentive, anything below $75K seems too low.
Excuse me. Pardon the interruption, but ...
CLEANSHEET!!! Again!
That is all.
Ask and ye shall receive? The new playoff format has the 3-6 seed teams in a one game 'play-in' at the higher seed's stadium with the 1 and 2 teams given a bye to the two legged 'conference semi-finals'. At least they increased the importance of finishing higher in the table. Last year, the 3rd seed didn't have to play that extra game. If you get in through the 5-6 seed you don't get a home playoff game unless you go through.
That's all I'll say about that.
Shakes - has got it about right. The thing that we could add is some prize money for winning the league and automatic entry to CONCACAF. Winning the play-offs would also get you into the CONCACAF tournament. I'd like to see 2 divisions with promotion and demotion. Fix the international and bye weekend nonsense...and a few more mid-week games.
Pro / Rel is the ultimate MLS
Id love to see him play in montreal
He's on a USL contract and is thus ineligible for Voyageurs Cup play.
Mexico uses playoffs to determine their champion. A league with a long history and plenty of tradition. Admittedly, they only have eight teams in their playoffs, so there is a bit more of an achievement in making it. They've been using the Liguilla to determine the champion since the 70s and their league is very healthy.
Last edited by Jack; 05-03-2015 at 11:12 PM.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Good Weekend. Both Chicago and New York lost. With the next 7 games at home we should be able to move up in the table
The thing I never understood- the biggest annual soccer competition in the world, champions league, is a playoff. You have your regional divisions. The division winner plus x wild card teams make the playoffs. You then do a round robin playoff before getting to home and home knock out before 2 teams are left standing for a grand final. No-one seems to complain about it taking away from 'winning the division'. Even though in most european leagues only 4 or 5 teams really stand a chance from day one of the regular season.
The problem isn't that the playoffs make the regular season matter less. The problem is that in north america soccer isn't big enough to be seen as important in the regular season and the playoffs. NFL regular season matters like crazy, so does college football. NHL/NBA and MLB regular seasons would all matter if they only played 30-40 games (playing as many as they do makes the regular season matter less).
You are comparing separate tournaments. League vs Champions League. One is a playoff and one is a single table. They involve different teams for the most part.
Playoffs make the season matter less here because its the same teams competing for the Shield.
Comparing league playoffs to CL is disingenuous.
Look at NA sports fans. I heard just this weekend " I only watch it (NA sport) in the playoffs." Does that sound uncommon to anyone here? You don't get that as often with footy fans saying "I only tune in for the CL".
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I used to agree with this but now I'm not so sure. MLS modeled itself on North American leagues (really, the NFL) because it felt it needed to appeal to fans of other sports to get as big as those leagues. But if the TV ratings don't improve and if MLS doesn't get better media in general in America then that strategy may be revisited.Pro / Rel is the ultimate MLS
Pro Rel ain't gonna help TV ratings.
If anyone knew what would help TV ratings it would be happening now. We're heading into unchartered territory here. Looking at what the NFL and NBA did to increase TV ratings so long ago won't help now so almost anything is possible going forward.
MLS owners that paid $40-100m to join the league will never agree to a format where that team that they paid $40-100m for could be playing second tier soccer.
It does everywhere else.
What if they got payments from a parachute? or somethin' ..
People keep saying this and yet owners do exactly that in every other country. You think all those Champ. and League one teams in ENgland are local fan-owned clubs or something?
Most fans want it; it's been polled three times in the last five years on both MLSSoccer and SBI, and pro/rel has won each time, handily. On top of that, we're rapidly getting past the point where we'll have a reasonable number of teams for a first division.
Pro/rel makes life exciting for clubs at the bottom end fo the table /top end of div. 2, which gives fans of teams out of the playoffs a reason to say involved. ANd all of those clubs that go down over there don't automatically go broke; they downsize their expectations until they can get back to the top flight.
Add in some extremely restrictive covenants on pro/rel -- i.e. to be promoted a team must have a min. seasont ticket base and big enough stadium, plus win a playoff against the team going down -- along with financial aid from the top league to the team that is relegated, and it's not hard to accomplish.
People cheer for their LOCAL team. That's the whole point of the fan-based culture that drives MLS. If the second divsion's quality is good enough, people won't abandon their home team en masse for going down a flight. Generally, they don't in other countries. They lose a small portion.
So most of the hyperbole about pro/relegation is just that.
Not going to happen. TV sponsors wouldn't like it either with markets potentially not covered due to a team's performance. They'll go AL-NL like MLB if they grow large enough (I'd assume).
We can't compare what was grandfathered into Europe with what exists currently in NA. European owners would scrap relegation if they could get away with it.
We don't actually know that. Pro Rel existed before the TV contracts. Although there might be some ratings that come from "Oh look at those poor fans weep" day, and from the playoffs to go up, there is little to indicate that this audience wouldn't be there otherwise.
We just don't know.
The idea that Pro/Rel can help in North America is based on suppositions of what might happen. We do know what would happen if Pro/Rel were instituted - investor flight.
I know for certain that apart from about 8 long term Div 1/EPL teams, all teams in England are locally supported first and foremost and are set up purposefully to be working at a certain level. When/if they go up, they have to make adjustments/investments. Many are unwilling to make those investments so happily sit mid table between 2 leagues. Sugar daddies come and go.
This is not a recipe for excitement.
And don't get me started on the bias inherent in SBI and MLS polls.
I'll keep ignoring playoffs but I'm not going to tout pro rel until the "pyramid" is anywhere near stable. It is not.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
But it grew naturally in those other places. And it might here when there are too many teams that think they can win it all to play each other twice in one season.
the other difference, of course, is that in those other places the leagues started as groupings of clubs whereas here the league started as a single entity selling franchises. MLS is closer in structure to Tim Hortons or McDonalds than it is to other soccer leagues.
But, anything can happen. If the TV ratings don't go up a lot the next TV deal may not look very good and there might be investor flight then anyway. Drastic measures may need to be taken.
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I still don't think investors will. Elsewhere in the world, that structure of Promotion/Relegation is already in place, so people who buy teams in that structure do so knowing that that's how it works. Over here, people paid good money to own teams in a non-competitive environment. No competition for contracts, and a structure where teams that do bad are given the resources to become good rather than fall further back. It's a completely different animal from places like Europe, with a different kind of investor. I'm also not convinced that the north american fan will support their team as heavily in the second division as they would in the first division. You can talk about what they should do, but investors only care about what they will do. Just look at the attendances of the teams that came up to MLS from lower divisions before and after they came up to MLS. I think all of them had a dramatic increase in attendance when they moved up to MLS.
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