Updated: The Italians Are Coming. New TFC President coming

[trane]

I recall a conversation I had with Aron Winter. He was quite frank about the challenges he was having. He grossly underestimated the level of ability of the players in the league when he came in. He specifically mentioned having players that couldn't do things that kids in Holland learned when they were kids.

This is what is so frustrating about this league, as a CB who learned the game in Italy, guys here (MLS guys I mean) are less positionally and tactically sound then when I was at 15, and I am not even exaggerating, and it is not like I was a defender headed for a professional career, I was just a good defender for my age. The things that I have seen my coach in Italy at 10-12 would have me benched.


In some ways guys in the CSL are seem better as defenders, they are not such good athletes as MLSers, but alot of them have learned to play overseas and it shows, when it comes to tactical play.

[portu]

For everyone who doubts Gandini's awareness of MLS go through his favorites on Twitter in there you will find a copy of 2014 MLS player acquisition rules (among other MLS related tweets and documents) shared by Grant Wahl. This guy is at the very least somewhat up to date with MLS goings ons, he would NOT be coming in blind. This is also a man that 214 top European clubs put their trust in to advocate for their interests in communication with UEFA and FIFA as second in command behind only the Bayern Munich chairman. This is a position he holds ahead of people like Fiorentino Perez (Real Madrid), Ivan Gazidis (Arsenal), Rosell (Barcelona), etcetera. Let's not be so picky and quick to judge and remember that Big Tim is calling the shots re: Presidency. Big Tim who hired Bruce Arena and values MLS knowledge (see Bezbatchenko).

Gattuso is a whole different story.

[MightyDM]

Let's stop discussing Nelsen. The guy was awful.

This discussion should be about TFC actually hiring a good candidate instead of a bumbling former player who didn't even have his cleats and never coached anythong prior to walking in the door.

Changing history isn't helpful. Nelsen's team was 4-4-4 on the road last year as posted earlier. In MLS, that is much better than average. "Awful" cannot in any way be applied to those results, it makes as much sense as saying he was purple.

vanney may well prove to be able to coach in a way that we don't surrender easy goals, it's just that there is precious little evidence of that in his record to date and it is such a basic flaw that he has to show he has corrected it very soon.

[MightyDM]

From Molinaro's article:



Of course, everyone here who is invested in seeing Vanney leave will deny that, but the way I see it any competent president is not going to fire anybody until they get a feel for the organization. I say they'll get the whole season to prove themselves.

you would think that generally but any competent football (soccer) person who watches the tape of the game v. Dallas knowing the same weakness has been exploited all season and that the coaching staff had two weeks to prepare for the game won't need long to form an opinion.

[brad]

Changing history isn't helpful. Nelsen's team was 4-4-4 on the road last year as posted earlier. In MLS, that is much better than average. "Awful" cannot in any way be applied to those results, it makes as much sense as saying he was purple.

vanney may well prove to be able to coach in a way that we don't surrender easy goals, it's just that there is precious little evidence of that in his record to date and it is such a basic flaw that he has to show he has corrected it very soon.

Have to factor into any discussion about Nelsens results that at least 15 points came from Defoes goals. For the most part the football was defensively solid at the expense of offense. We relied on Defoes ability to score.

When Nelsen opened the team up and started attacking and Defoe got injured our performances dropped.

When he was let go, the performances and results were bad and we were not on course to make the playoffs.

On top of that, there is all the behind the scenes incompetence like not prepping for the opposition and a bunch of other basic stuff he should have been doing.

[reggie]

according to anthony toteia(sp) roberto bettega may be the next prez of tfc.

[Qman]

speed changes everything.

Notice the biggest difference between USL and MLS is the speed of play (pace of the attacking players). This changes everything for the back 4. You go from being in your comfort zone to constantly being on your heals.

[Qman]

This is what is so frustrating about this league, as a CB who learned the game in Italy, guys here (MLS guys I mean) are less positionally and tactically sound then when I was at 15, and I am not even exaggerating, and it is not like I was a defender headed for a professional career, I was just a good defender for my age. The things that I have seen my coach in Italy at 10-12 would have me benched.

In some ways guys in the CSL are seem better as defenders, they are not such good athletes as MLSers, but alot of them have learned to play overseas and it shows, when it comes to tactical play.

speed changes everything.

Notice the biggest difference between USL and MLS is the speed of play (pace of the attacking players and ability to be creative at full speed). This changes everything for the back 4. You go from being in your comfort zone to constantly being on your heals.

[OgtheDim]

according to anthony toteia(sp) roberto bettega may be the next prez of tfc.

Now we got people in Italy googling "Toronto" and "Italian football administrator" and feeding any name that matches to Toronto sources.

[Phil]

Now we got people in Italy googling "Toronto" and "Italian football administrator" and feeding any name that matches to Toronto sources.

Anthony is pretty connected in terms of info especially from the Italian community. He knew about Seba pretty early on.

That said I don't know how accurate this is, he seemed to be a little bit on the fence about it tonight on the show.

[ag futbol]

Changing history isn't helpful. Nelsen's team was 4-4-4 on the road last year as posted earlier. In MLS, that is much better than average. "Awful" cannot in any way be applied to those results, it makes as much sense as saying he was purple.

vanney may well prove to be able to coach in a way that we don't surrender easy goals, it's just that there is precious little evidence of that in his record to date and it is such a basic flaw that he has to show he has corrected it very soon.

Yes, but he dropped too many points at home and as soon as other teams had tape on us and took away plan "A" we had no plan B. It was over, the writing was on the wall. He also picked the wrong DP who quickly pushed his way out after one year.

If Ryan Nelsen is a good coach let someone else prove it. I'll bet Carl Robinson is coaching in England at the championship level or better before Ryan Nelsen is ever again offered something above an assistant gig for any meaningful club.

Let's stick to talking about realistic people with proven track records if it's about another coach vs. Vanney. This (Vanney vs. Nelsen) is like comparing a punch in the face vs. kick to the shins (I'll take neither).

[trane]

This is what is so frustrating about this league, as a CB who learned the game in Italy, guys here (MLS guys I mean) are less positionally and tactically sound then when I was at 15, and I am not even exaggerating, and it is not like I was a defender headed for a professional career, I was just a good defender for my age. The things that I have seen my coach in Italy at 10-12 would have me benched.

In some ways guys in the CSL are seem better as defenders, they are not such good athletes as MLSers, but alot of them have learned to play overseas and it shows, when it comes to tactical play.

speed changes everything.

Notice the biggest difference between USL and MLS is the speed of play (pace of the attacking players and ability to be creative at full speed). This changes everything for the back 4. You go from being in your comfort zone to constantly being on your heals.

Sure, I agree . But you figure if you play in the MLS game in and game you should get adjusted to it, OR adjust your game to deal with it, get fast, think faster, sit back more, think a step ahead, read quicker. or at least you try not to play high and get caught.

[MightyDM]

Yes, but he dropped too many points at home and as soon as other teams had tape on us and took away plan "A" we had no plan B. It was over, the writing was on the wall. He also picked the wrong DP who quickly pushed his way out after one year.

If Ryan Nelsen is a good coach let someone else prove it. I'll bet Carl Robinson is coaching in England at the championship level or better before Ryan Nelsen is ever again offered something above an assistant gig for any meaningful club.

Let's stick to talking about realistic people with proven track records if it's about another coach vs. Vanney. This (Vanney vs. Nelsen) is like comparing a punch in the face vs. kick to the shins (I'll take neither).

sorry, but you said Nelsen was awful. His record was competent, particularly on the road and he left us in the playoffs. I am not arguing he was excellent, but he wasn't awful. He was a defensively sound coach who played the counter attack, not a bad strategy and one which Chelsea employed to defeat Man U just this week. Is Mourinho awful? All of this rewriting history to make him out to be a disaster distorts everything. If Nelsen at 4-4-4 on the road was awful, what is Vanney at 1- 9-1? Putrid.? Non existent? Imaginary?

[molenshtain]

sorry, but you said Nelsen was awful. His record was competent, particularly on the road and he left us in the playoffs. I am not arguing he was excellent, but he wasn't awful. He was a defensively sound coach who played the counter attack, not a bad strategy and one which Chelsea employed to defeat Man U just this week. Is Mourinho awful? All of this rewriting history to make him out to be a disaster distorts everything. If Nelsen at 4-4-4 on the road was awful, what is Vanney at 1- 9-1? Putrid.? Non existent? Imaginary?

Nelsen was 3 wins in 13 games when he got fired. He got figured out. Our defence and defensive midfield were massive disaster by the end. The 3-0 loss to the revs that led to his sacking was in the top 3 worst performances by the time over our 9 years. Let's not act like Nelsen was a defensive strategist. I'm fine counter-attacking in that manner if it's executed properly, like I am will all tactics, Nelsen just wasn't doing that.

[ensco]

I am tired of years and years of being used. I am getting close to walking away.

Peddie, once he realized something interesting was happening here, used TFC as a management training school. He could have cared less what the right thing for TFC was. (Anselmi failed but did his best. He and Beirne built the north stand in part to thwart the Argos. I remember.)

Klinsmann totally used us. Putting Winter in, cashing his cheque, then walking away and never mentioning it again. Hope you are proud of that Jurgen.

Leiweke has sold TFC out completely in the BMO reno. Some things need to be said. If it's good for the Leafs or the Argos, he will say anything vis a vis TFC. He seems to want to collect trophies so that he can build his resume for his next gig ("Look what I did - I got [insert here] Bradley/Defoe/Giovinco/Milan's business guy"). But anything that involves building the team properly or getting a decent MLS front office exec or manager in here? Not interested.

Can we get someone in here who has the well being of the team as his sole priority?

[ag futbol]

sorry, but you said Nelsen was awful. His record was competent, particularly on the road and he left us in the playoffs. I am not arguing he was excellent, but he wasn't awful. He was a defensively sound coach who played the counter attack, not a bad strategy and one which Chelsea employed to defeat Man U just this week. Is Mourinho awful? All of this rewriting history to make him out to be a disaster distorts everything. If Nelsen at 4-4-4 on the road was awful, what is Vanney at 1- 9-1? Putrid.? Non existent? Imaginary?

Comparing Nelsen's strategy to Mourinho is like comparing Vanney to Guardiola. Nelsen is a defensive to a fault. You can't just point to a road record when the team did not earn enough points at home to make the playoffs.

Taking one of the highest paid rosters in the league and playing football like a yo-yo prem team that is severely handicapped compared to its competitors is not a formula for success. Nobody good in this league is playing that way.

[Redcoe15]

I am tired of years and years of being used. I am getting close to walking away.

Peddie, once he realized something interesting was happening here, used TFC as a management training school. He could have cared less what the right thing for TFC was. (Anselmi failed but did his best. He and Beirne built the north stand in part to thwart the Argos. I remember.)

Klinsmann totally used us. Putting Winter in, cashing his cheque, then walking away and never mentioning it again. Hope you are proud of that Jurgen.

Leiweke has sold TFC out completely in the BMO reno. Some things need to be said. If it's good for the Leafs or the Argos, he will say anything vis a vis TFC. He seems to want to collect trophies so that he can build his resume for his next gig ("Look what I did - I got [insert here] Bradley/Defoe/Giovinco/Milan's business guy"). But anything that involves building the team properly or getting a decent MLS front office exec or manager in here? Not interested.

Can we get someone in here who has the well being of the team as his sole priority?

^^What he said!

[Auzzy]

From Larson: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/21...-changes---yet

[PizzaEatingYeti]

David Amoyal @DavidAmoyal · 9m9 minutes ago

Been told that a loss in next match will bring a coaching change at Toronto FC, and next manager is expected to be Italian (more to come)

Well, fu..ck, too bad that it's almost impossible for TFC to lose in the next game. Bye, bye Italian manager...
(I post this after reading just the thread opening post, an nothing else yet...).

[trane]

From Larson: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/21...-changes---yet

Fuck you Larson. Stability? Has Vanney not coached this team for some 20 odd games, and have we seen any growth. Instead of growth we have seen one of the worst games ever on defense, after he had two weeks in which he said they were working on the defense. I am sorry Mr. Media expert, but after this time it is not an illogical conclusion that Vanney does not cut it. Therefore if you have reached that conclusion the reasonable thing to do is start looking for alternative managers, and not wait like MLSE always does until the season is down the shite once again and then grab the first dude walking down the street. You fire Vanney only if you find that replacement and if he does turn things around then great. But waiting for another half a season when it looks like Vanney is not cutting it without looking at possible upgrades is poor, poor management. Particularly when you have invested and brought in such quality. You need to win now.

The analyses by Toronto media is always so fucking shallow.

[trane]

"For now, though, it appears everyone is safe barring catastrophe", I like that he says that. Did he not see the first half of the game???

[Pookie]

From Larson: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/21...-changes---yet

Bez -"We’ll make sure the city’s focus shifts back to Toronto FC.”

Are you a promoter or a GM? I'd recommend the organization's focus shifts back to football.

[OgtheDim]

...The second is Bez. “We’ll make sure the city’s focus shifts back to Toronto FC.”

Are you a promoter or a GM? I'd recommend the organization's focus shifts back to football.

That quote was in the context of getting 30K to a game, and he indicated the way to do that was by winning.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That quote was in the context of getting 30K to a game, and he indicated the way to do that was by winning.

Thanks for the context. I don't read any of the papers. You guys just do too good a job of getting me news the way I want it. It's somehow less frustrating when coming from you guys.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Fuck you Larson. Stability? Has Vanney not coached this team for some 20 odd games, and have we seen any growth. Instead of growth we have seen one of the worst games ever on defense, after he had two weeks in which he said they were working on the defense. I am sorry Mr. Media expert, but after this time it is not an illogical conclusion that Vanney does not cut it. Therefore if you have reached that conclusion the reasonable thing to do is start looking for alternative managers, and not wait like MLSE always does until the season is down the shite once again and then grab the first dude walking down the street. You fire Vanney only if you find that replacement and if he does turn things around then great. But waiting for another half a season when it looks like Vanney is not cutting it without looking at possible upgrades is poor, poor management. Particularly when you have invested and brought in such quality. You need to win now.

The analyses by Toronto media is always so fucking shallow.

Honestly don't we all think they should have at LEAST one coach on retainer the way their luck has been? The traditional "looking for a new coach" method is consistently too long and unsuccessful - unless they are aiming to only hire possibilities vs experienced coaches...

Its enough to roll your eyes out of their sockets when new coach talk begins.

[ronzilla]

I would only take Larson's article with a grain of salt. Rarely does he get anything right.

On the other hand, David Amoyal is far more credible and was one of the first (if not THE first) to announce the
Seba deal.

Hiring presidents, managers, etc does not happen over night and I have no doubt that TFC are exploring other
options, in case Vanney drags this team to the ground, which is highly likely.

[Chevy]

Fuck you Larson. Stability? Has Vanney not coached this team for some 20 odd games, and have we seen any growth. Instead of growth we have seen one of the worst games ever on defense, after he had two weeks in which he said they were working on the defense. I am sorry Mr. Media expert, but after this time it is not an illogical conclusion that Vanney does not cut it. Therefore if you have reached that conclusion the reasonable thing to do is start looking for alternative managers, and not wait like MLSE always does until the season is down the shite once again and then grab the first dude walking down the street. You fire Vanney only if you find that replacement and if he does turn things around then great. But waiting for another half a season when it looks like Vanney is not cutting it without looking at possible upgrades is poor, poor management. Particularly when you have invested and brought in such quality. You need to win now.

The analyses by Toronto media is always so fucking shallow.

+1. A patient in a coma is about as stable as you can get. Doesn't make it a good thing.

[Oldtimer]

I would only take Larson's article with a grain of salt. Rarely does he get anything right.

On the other hand, David Amoyal is far more credible and was one of the first (if not THE first) to announce the
Seba deal.

Hiring presidents, managers, etc does not happen over night and I have no doubt that TFC are exploring other
options, in case Vanney drags this team to the ground, which is highly likely.

You're really invested in this "regime change" scenario, but maybe you should consider taking a more "wait and see" approach. Over the years MLSE has shown it's ability to surprise even the most knowledgeable and savvy.

BTW, Larson was the first local guy to announce Giovinco's coming. How does that make him usually wrong?

Of course TFC have a back-up plan for Vanney, and we should always be open to upgrade players, managers, whatever to get better. That doesn't mean they are planning to fire him at this moment. It was only during Mo's regime that we didn't have a "plan B," and that was due to his monumental incompetence. Of course you're open to upgrade and remove under-performers. If Sigi came knocking on TFC's door, do you think they'd turn him down?

Looking at how MLSE traditionally operates, they would hire the Italian president, but tell him that he would have to accept the current staff, at least for now. He can only fire them if they continue to underperform. That's what they've always done in the past. Look at JFJ with the Leafs, or Bez with Nelsen. It's what they always do.

[Justin10000]

2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000

After 5 games??

Come on!

That's a bit hyperbolic.

[Milanista]

lol Leafs suck, Raps suck, TFC is sucking....when will Toronto sports team ever catch a break? My god this city is just brutal