TBH id like to see Vanney around for 2 seasons. Im still not convinced, outside of the few times hes been insistent on playing players out of position when hes got players in those positions, that hes a poor coach.
TBH id like to see Vanney around for 2 seasons. Im still not convinced, outside of the few times hes been insistent on playing players out of position when hes got players in those positions, that hes a poor coach.
I'm trying to figure out why anyone would want Vanney instead of a high profile european coach/ a proven mls coach. The guy has never held a professional coaching role, just an assistant coach role. Don't get me wrong, I would love for us to keep a coach for more than a year but Vanney simply isn't the right guy for us. We have world class players on our team being coached by an amateur.
Mostly because of the recent history of coaches within MLS, almost all of whom started out as assistant coaches.Originally Posted by Frings22
Carl Robinson, for example.
Hopefully the new President, who can not be here soon enough, will be tasked with choosing a manager.
The early signs with Owen Coyle are good.
On that topic and somewhat related
i believe Giovinco and Bradley will have a say as to the next coach. Mark my word, their agents will be requesting improvement.
i have never liked Vanney, i would prefer to have Nelson back ....Also, i agree that the firing of Nelson in August was the worst think Bez did.
I have noticed that Vanney always changes his strategy after the first half as the opposition always knows his game plan..... i blame Vanney for having Hagglund at the RB which Castillo destroyed him... and putting Bradley as a high midfielder.
Vanney needs to go.... I would recommend Donadoni as the new coach. Parma season will be over and that it would be a new challenge for him... also, he would be happy that he will be paid on time.
Donadoni was rumored to be in the running back when we hired Aron Winter.
Which high profile coach would come to Toronto/MLS and succeed having never been here before?
Which proven MLS coach is free to come to TFC?
My two dilemmas with these statements.
Its all fine and great to say these things but how can we back them up.
This is not to mention would we give this guy time to work his magic? Past and present suggests no.
Hell Jesse Marsch was tossed out early at Montreal with a poor record and he so far has done well at NYRB, granted its 5 games into the season
It should be acknowledged this was probably at least partially a function of the league's frugality.
I get the coaching pool in NA isn't deep. USL records don't seem to translate and the few NCAA that are good are loathe to give up job security. Foreign coaches don't seem to be able to handle the imperfect mix of an MLS roster.
Still ... It seems like plan A for most teams is putting some inexperienced former MLS'er in the role, which IMO leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.
Im gonna step away from this thread. Bit frustrating as we seem to have this annually, same responses each time and get the same results every time.
The early signs with Owen Coyle are good.
On that topic and somewhat related
Well apart from the nice patriotic American Dream idealistic view frankly proven to be false notion that people who came to the US and Canada were allowed to use their knowledge as against being brought over for brute strength and to be consumers, don't ya think it would also be equally "stupid" to stifle the flow of soccer knowledge that comes from people who have only been assistants?
Look, I get some people don't like Vanney. But if 7 games this season at 2-2-3, with those wins being at home, is enough to give a lot of past history the boot....well then....
If our management structure continually changes, I don't see how we can garner any fluidity with coaches here.
I don't think TFC's failures have much to do with the people hired but more so the revolving door of staff which is never-ending.
It all starts at the top (MLSE). Everything else is moot.
It's bc TFC continues to hire morons to coach this team
Way to take it the completely wrong way.
Well apart from the nice patriotic American Dream idealistic view frankly proven to be false notion that people who came to the US and Canada were allowed to use their knowledge as against being brought over for brute strength and to be consumers, don't ya think it would also be equally "stupid" to stifle the flow of soccer knowledge that comes from people who have only been assistants?
Look, I get some people don't like Vanney. But if 7 games this season at 2-2-3, with those wins being at home, is enough to give a lot of past history the boot....well then....
The point that was post was trying to make is maybe we should start to move past the "MLS experienced candidates only need apply" type of thinking. One I have been 100% guilty of succumbing to. Especially if the league is going to continue to grow and improve.
Truth
I guess we just wait and see, so much speculation
It's pretty obvious that whatever Vanney is doing isn't exactly inspirational. But you can't necessarily blame him for injuries/suspensions/international duty etc. I'm sure its been said already, but we haven't even had a home game yet! lol
If a club president is all that is being added, then so be it. It will be needed once Lieweke actually leaves. But I don't think a coaching change is warranted just yet.
And what I was replying to at the beginning of this was
which is the very background of recent successful coaches in MLS.The guy has never held a professional coaching role, just an assistant coach role.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 04-22-2015 at 02:35 PM.
I agree. Even though I think he made severe tactical mistakes in the last game, he's only a handful of games into being a head coach. Too early to write someone off just because of what we've gone through in the past. Giving him the season at least.
Re: MLS experience
Sounds like pure protectionism.
Canadian hockey coaches do find jobs in KHL despite much bigger differences from NA.
Smarter operators do value experience.
comparing hockey to MLS is a false comparison
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I was going to write a long post about why Vanney should get more time, but I realized all the arguments already have been made. And we'd be just rehashing old arguments and I don't feel like writing a long post anymore.
Frustrating to watch this drama though
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
THIS. If Bez didn't call Nelson's last game a 'must win' TFC would have made the playoffs last season with Nelson. It was all Bez's fault and Nelson shouldn't have been fired. The team was doing better than ever in TFC's history with Nelson so firing him was a huge mistake.
Isn't it. I keep getting caught up and feeling forced to write a comment. I very much think Vanney has done some good things with this group so far this year, but we need to see what he continues to do in the next few months with his players back.
Originally Posted by starter
Re: MLS experience
Sounds like pure protectionism.
Canadian hockey coaches do find jobs in KHL despite much bigger differences from NA.
Smarter operators do value experience.
Do tell.
building cohesion with int players with NA players in a low salary cap setting has proved to be challenging for most foreign managers.
Re: MLS experience
Sounds like pure protectionism.
Canadian hockey coaches do find jobs in KHL despite much bigger differences from NA.
Smarter operators do value experience.
Do tell.
again, another argument that's be rehashed multiple times. I do recommend reading Beckham Experiment and why Ruud Gullit failed (well, Gullit sucked as a coach on basis, but foreign managers just don't quite get the intricacies and challenges of NA soccer)
it's not just the Xs and Os.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
No, it definitely is not helping. It is absolutely unfair at this point to be calling for his head though. Even if he may not be "the man" for the long term, who are we going to court when being a coach here is like being the first guy off the boat at Normandy.
I think something everyone needs to consider, is the words that we say, do not fall on deaf ears. Toronto is a viscous market to be associated with a sports team. I am sure Vanney feels the pressure, and more. He needs all the support that can be mustered. A person can have a vision, but often, you need tools to see that vision through.
So before saying we need to sack the coach, does anyone here feel that Sir Alex Ferguson could step into the locker room and turn this into a winning club? Simply by the fact that he is the coach?
I have my tickets. I will be there. I will be disappointed with a loss, and excited with a win. I will be a fan (or sheep, as some will call us). But I will not have expectations that are un-realistic.
Playing better????? You have to be kidding. One half in Vancouver and bits of RSL and Chicago we have looked decent to excellent, otherwise we have been unwatchably bad. And at the critical moments, we concede the easiest of goals and in the case of Dallas, the most predictable of goals.
Flashes of potential excellence, yes, but combined with the worst play defensively we have seen and the worry is that that is how it looked last year under Vanney. I actually hope he turns it around but lets be realistic, Dallas was on him and the mental fragility or whatever versus Chicago and RSL is too in my books. Plus playing Crevealle out of position with out a plan to protect him, I mean come on.
Going by his interview early today he said that he told the defenders to keep the opposing forwards in front of them at all times and let the mids do their work. That obviously didn't happen.
So the question is; did he coach the players properly and they just aren't listening or is Vanney lying to save face?
All due respect, these are just opinions, based on statistically insignificant numbers.
Perhaps there is a way to do it right, with capologists on hand.
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