Are we getting value for Bradley and Altidore?

[brad]

absolutely. the payroll of the team is pretty relevant when you consider that the on field results have been a joke and yet the team has one of the biggest payrolls in the league.

It raises questions as to the effectiveness of team management. Payroll should be reflected by on field performance. It definitely should.

TFC is a total fail.

I disagree. There is too much focus is on the total payroll in the MLS.

This only has a bearing on 3 players and three players can't consistently overcome the short comings of the rest of the team/tactics

And while those 3 players can and should make the team better. Plugging three good players into a bad team is only going to make a bad team a bit better. It's not going to make a bad team good.

[gate7]

I wonder if Vancouver would do a 1 for 1 Bradley Laba deal........My guess is that they wouldn't for the reasons that are obvous (laba is producing more for a smaller investment)......Simply said TFCs problems are management and they allways have been.

[gate7]

correct my math if im wrong but Bradley @ $6,000,000 yr ÷ 34 games(season) = $176,470 per game.So how many games is Bradley and Antiscore gonna miss this year?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Another year another woulda coulda thread after some losses...

Respect opinions and yours will be respected people.

No need to get butthurt from past disagreements. It's tough enough with the disappointing results without turning the knives on each other.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Edited title for discussion.

[shwade]

Does it really matter how much any of them get paid?

They overpaid these players to come here for sure. But the cap hit is all we should be concerned with. Are all players DP level - Yes. Then who cares what their contract is beyond some pin the tail on the scapegoat game we all play.

The only thing that looks clear is the man in charge of the teams performance is not able to coach them to the potential they should be achieving. As well we don't have any experienced defensive depth, the kind needed to compete in this league.

How much is Kaka, Giovinco, Keane etc being paid? Salary is absolutely relevant when compared to what we COULD be getting for the same price or less.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This. No one is saying Bradley sucks. He's been a disappointment since his first few games last year.
When we only have 3 spots to splurge on and have $60M there are far better ways to spend that money as has been demonstrated by other teams in this league. No one is paying more for their squad than Toronto and no one has less to show for it.
All of this is on Bez of course, who handed the keys to Vanney. We were lining up Giovinco, and have findley, Moore, Dike, Hamilton and possibly Gilberto. We didn't need another forward, we could have spent Altidore $$ on a winger or defender which was sorely needed. The money here is being mismanaged. If we could get Cheyrou as a non-DP then why in fuck do we have altidore making 5 million a year.

Winger? Defender? Keep playing if you're going to start. Who? Who was available and do you think would've come here?

And will this discussion change our present lack of those talents?

[shwade]

Its still very early in the season. When Bradley isn't tired and firing at 100% we all know his quality. I feel the problem is not with the dps or attacking part of the field, its the defence and keeper. Bendik is very athletic but terrible at reading the game.

Will he ever be not tired though? He's gone for every US friendly, the Gold Cup, World Cup. The only time we've had him at 100% was March - May last year when he had a few months off before.

[shwade]

Winger? Defender? Keep playing if you're going to start. Who? Who was available and do you think would've come here?

And will this discussion change our present lack of those talents?

Wait...you want me to list defenders and wingers who could have came here? Isn't that Bez's job? With $5 million you don't think we could have gotten a decent winger or defender?? Giovinco wasn't 'available' but they went out and got him. That's their job.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wait...you want me to list defenders and wingers who could have came here? Isn't that Bez's job? With $5 million you don't think we could have gotten a decent winger or defender?? Giovinco wasn't 'available' but they went out and got him. That's their job.

So you don't care who it was that came here instead? Just some Defender and winger and that's how we compare value?

[C.Ronaldo]

Id focus more on invsible Osario and Findely.

I was all for Osario sucess, but he is playing nowhere near the level he needs to be.
And Findley is grossly overpaid

[shwade]

So you don't care who it was that came here instead? Just some Defender and winger and that's how we compare value?

Umm...I'm not sure if we're going anywhere with this, you clearly aren't understanding what I'm trying to say or you're just being difficult.

What we NEEDED was a winger or defender..agree or disagree?
You want me to sit here and list all the wingers in Europe who could've been lured here with a $5m payday? Uh, I have a job already..that should be left to Bez. My point is that Altidore money could've been spent strengthening positions that we are lacking in when we already have a wealth of forwards.

[TFC07]

Who cares how much they're making when their cap hit is same as someone like Laba or Edu (who's DP).

Question should be we being asking is: are they worth DP slot and create a buzz in this market?

I agree that we can get better players with amount of money MLSE is willing to pay, but since we're run by Americans now, they will try to sign their own and follow MLS agenda of signing USMNT players. This is a good and bad thing same time (we get more wiggle room from MLS FO to break their "rules", but same time, these USMNT player signings don't generate much interest in this market like European signings like Giovinco).

However, I feel coaching is and always has been biggest issue with this team. I feel these players aren't being fully utilized to their strength and current coach is asking too much from players who make $100,000 to perform like DP's.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Umm...I'm not sure if we're going anywhere with this, you clearly aren't understanding what I'm trying to say or you're just being difficult.

What we NEEDED was a winger or defender..agree or disagree?
You want me to sit here and list all the wingers in Europe who could've been lured here with a $5m payday? Uh, I have a job already..that should be left to Bez. My point is that Altidore money could've been spent strengthening positions that we are lacking in when we already have a wealth of forwards.

So you think we could've got better value instead of getting the 2 DP's we did.

um. and ok.

It's possible. Now what? Get rid of them now?

I guess they've served the business side of selling tickets already. They still have most of MLS to visit still so they'd prolly stay within the league. Who would you trade them for?

[TFC07]

Id focus more on invsible Osario and Findely.

I was all for Osario sucess, but he is playing nowhere near the level he needs to be.
And Findley is grossly overpaid

Osorio isn't playing middle of the field which is hurting his "effectiveness" on the field. Osorio is at his best when playing middle of the field like we saw in his first year with TFC.

Bradley signing has hurt Osorio's game since Bradley is more Box-to-Box midfielder while Osorio more attacking mid. Osorio is usual at his best playing along with DM (like Warner) while he plays more advance role in midfield and not to worry too much in defensive end.

[Phil]

How much is Kaka, Giovinco, Keane etc being paid? Salary is absolutely relevant when compared to what we COULD be getting for the same price or less.

Its all relative to the market though.

I can't even see parity within this league on value. LA is an easy sell - the weather, the city and the fact that they win will certainly reduce pricing demand, your only obstacle is to lure the players from other markets. Toronto with its constant struggle, cold winters, nasty springtime weather along with the fact we have a weaker dollar and other impressions gives us a disadvantage to get players so we overpay.

Your point is valid on that big picture dollars to donuts thing, but really with the way the salary cap works the only real tangible comparison is are we getting the right mix of DP's and what is their effectiveness for the team?

[brad]

Umm...I'm not sure if we're going anywhere with this, you clearly aren't understanding what I'm trying to say or you're just being difficult.

What we NEEDED was a winger or defender..agree or disagree?
You want me to sit here and list all the wingers in Europe who could've been lured here with a $5m payday? Uh, I have a job already..that should be left to Bez. My point is that Altidore money could've been spent strengthening positions that we are lacking in when we already have a wealth of forwards.

We were handcuffed by the Defoe situation. It's not as cut and dry as just being able to unload him and then go buy whoever we wanted. Any discussion of the Altidore situation needs to factor that in.

[brad]

I wonder if Vancouver would do a 1 for 1 Bradley Laba deal........My guess is that they wouldn't for the reasons that are obvous (laba is producing more for a smaller investment)......Simply said TFCs problems are management and they allways have been.

Hard to say, but unlikely for the reasons you mentioned + the fact that Bradley will miss a bunch of games for Internationals and Laba will not.

That said, Laba is excelling in a good, well coached side. Bradley is faltering in a poorly coached side. It is entirely possible that if such a switch occurred Laba would be faltering and Bradley would be starring

TFC is the place where good players go to suck. And when they move on, they often do much, much better

[shwade]

Its all relative to the market though.

I can't even see parity within this league on value. LA is an easy sell - the weather, the city and the fact that they win will certainly reduce pricing demand, your only obstacle is to lure the players from other markets. Toronto with its constant struggle, cold winters, nasty springtime weather along with the fact we have a weaker dollar and other impressions gives us a disadvantage to get players so we overpay.

Your point is valid on that big picture dollars to donuts thing, but really with the way the salary cap works the only real tangible comparison is are we getting the right mix of DP's and what is their effectiveness for the team?

I guess this is what it comes down to as I mentioned in an earlier post as well..being Toronto we have to overpay - KC wasn't willing to spend that much on Bradley. Vancouver is killing it with a significantly lower payroll. It's just frustrating that Bez couldn't do better with the DPs (minus Giovinco and Bradley to an extent).

As far as what to do with them...well we're handcuffed aren't we? We have a history of getting rid of DPs in a season or less, we should be turning the tide now. I understand the Altidore swap was pure desperation but being in this position all the time is demoralizing.

[brad]

We have approached it wrong. Our management looks at DPs as the answer, not a piece of the puzzle. Build a solid MLS team and push it over the top DP's and you have a Supporters Shield and MLS caliber team.

Build a mediocre team and put three DPs in, you have a mediocre team that might punch above its weight but will still be a mediocre team.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not fair to judge this yet because I don't think our manager has the team set up to succeed. We are just rolling out the same game plan which exposes the back line, forces a lot of pointless & slow midfield possession, and leave Altidore frozen alone up top. No efforts have been made to correct any of these issues and until they do then I am not judging our DPs.

[barticusz]

Can we all calm down for a second?

Altidore - he's doing as much or more than Gilberto when we first arrived. Altidore will score in this league, the team just needs to get the ball to him in the box. When's he's gotten the ball in that position he's either drawn fouls or taken his chances and actually hit the net.

Bradley - If you guys don't think this guy is putting it all out there then I'm not sure what you're watching. Lots of people were calling for him to play higher up and he finally did. This resulted in Warner being the guy to distribute from the back and I think it's fair to say we don't have the same composure with Warner playing that role. On top of that, the rest of our team have been brutal. Jackson constantly giving the ball away, Osorio doing very little of anything, bad passes by our full backs etc. When we've controlled the ball in the offensive end, we were most successful in creating chances with both Bradley and Cheyrou distributing.

As for the money they're getting paid, I think they're salaries don't matter as much as what the rest of the team does at the salary they're getting paid.

[Milanista]

Osorio isn't a winger, our weakness is on the flanks...we are so bad that teams crowd the middle of the park and we have no wingers or full backs that can attack...right now its easy playing TFC and giovinco has been the only threat so far

[dupont]

We are 1-4 with three points. I wonder if people would be as pessimistic if we had the same three points but getting there with three ties and less losses. I'm not sure... all I know is that we are one of the top threats in the league offensively which is a huge plus. Our defense is terrible though. I actually think the three DPs are working out. Our problem is that they didn't address the backline sufficiently. In MLS, it seems like you don't need to overspend on DPs though for defenders so it's probably something that can still be addressed somehow.

[Milanista]

and you see no issue with our wing play along with our horrible goalie?

We are 1-4 with three points. I wonder if people would be as pessimistic if we had the same three points but getting there with three ties and less losses. I'm not sure... all I know is that we are one of the top threats in the league offensively which is a huge plus. Our defense is terrible though. I actually think the three DPs are working out. Our problem is that they didn't address the backline sufficiently. In MLS, it seems like you don't need to overspend on DPs though for defenders so it's probably something that can still be addressed somehow.

[gate7]

Hard to say, but unlikely for the reasons you mentioned + the fact that Bradley will miss a bunch of games for Internationals and Laba will not.

That said, Laba is excelling in a good, well coached side. Bradley is faltering in a poorly coached side. It is entirely possible that if such a switch occurred Laba would be faltering and Bradley would be starring

TFC is the place where good players go to suck. And when they move on, they often do much, much better

good enough for me...At least I can agree that our concerns are more effective in blaming the usual suspect.. Front Office


players might just be scapegoats?

[Frings22]

Is the same ole same ole every season. Why not employ the Academy to play for minimum wages and use the money to bring in top HT entertainment like AcDc or some other well known pop rock blues bands to play HT and any extra can be used to give away free beer and hot dogs until it runs out. The place will fill up and stay filled. :@)

Someone hire this guy :P

[Fort York Redcoat]

Is the same ole same ole every season. Why not employ the Academy to play for minimum wages and use the money to bring in top HT entertainment like AcDc or some other well known pop rock blues bands to play HT and any extra can be used to give away free beer and hot dogs until it runs out. The place will fill up and stay filled. :@)

This sounds like what the Argos did. It was schlock then as well.

[bigtfcfan]

I have been watching Bradley very objectively and really trying to see him play well, but i really can't, he doesn't do anything useful. Laba on the other hand, you don't even have to try to see it, he just shines in most games and its really clear to see how well he does.

[barticusz]

I have been watching Bradley very objectively and really trying to see him play well, but i really can't, he doesn't do anything useful. Laba on the other hand, you don't even have to try to see it, he just shines in most games and its really clear to see how well he does.

Laba plays one role and that's the destroyer.. get the ball back and pass it off to someone else.. aka Morales who then creates offensive magic. Bradley plays a different game from him and his an overall better player IMO. PS. I love Laba and we need a player like him on this team because we don't have anyone to fill that specific role. At least not anyone that can do it as effectively as him.

These comparisons are pointless. If we put Laba on this team ahead we'd still have the same issues.. The reason is we still don't have a solid RB or our healthy CB pairing.

Why not focus on a bigger problem then Bradley and that's Osorio.. Where has he been this year and for most of last year? He's getting lots of minutes but he's invisible half the time. He doesn't standout defensively and he doesn't create offensive changes. All he's done is pass the ball around. We need more out of him.