If he had that production when he was here, he wouldn't have been let go.Originally Posted by king10
If he had that production when he was here, he wouldn't have been let go.
He did have production in the second half of the season. If we had 4 dp slots or if bradley didnt run the show and bring his overpaid buddy altidore who scored a whopping zero goals last year gilberto would still be here.
the same could be said for laba who got shoved out the door for defoe and bradley. Now look at him at vancouver. Tops in mls west.
Last edited by king10; 04-19-2015 at 11:40 AM.
Moderator
Someone give this man a cookie. I said (and not to pretend I'm some sort of unique sage - a bunch of other people did too), that TFC didn't do nearly enough to improve defensively this season, before the games even started.
Which is not to say I think this season is doomed already, by the way - any more than we were set for success when we got off to a pretty good start last season.
And it's not some secret that we are hugely overpaying Altidore. Bringing him in was salvaging a bad situation with Defoe, so TFC put together what they could to leave all parties as satisfied as possible. We are still in incredibly early days with Altidore - including still not even having played a home game yet.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Moderator
Your first sentence is irrelevant, and your second sentence bears no relation to the reality of how and why the Altidore swap was made.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Fail to see how taking half a season to adjust to a new league and new country then being productive in the second half is irrelevant to demonstrating productivity for the team that the original poster called into question. But ok then.
Last edited by king10; 04-19-2015 at 11:44 AM.
Dude, if you think bradley shouldn't be here, you've lost the plot. None of your arguments make the least bit of sense.
cheers
Never said he shouldn't be here.
Said he's overpaid and not world class. Big difference. Also think he has too much power over decisions when he is jetting out for the usMNT every second weekend for non fifa friendlies when he should be staying with his club team that is in shambles and he is supposed to lead and captain. You'd think that maybe as a captain knowing he's already missed a game this year and will miss a bunch more for the Gold Cup he'd turn down a call up for a non fifa friendly and use the bye week as a captain to rest and train with his team.
Also, my argument is we should've kept gilberto and saved the money instead of paying altidore over $5 million when he scored zero goals last year.
cheers
Last edited by king10; 04-19-2015 at 12:31 PM.
This. No one is saying Bradley sucks. He's been a disappointment since his first few games last year.
When we only have 3 spots to splurge on and have $60M there are far better ways to spend that money as has been demonstrated by other teams in this league. No one is paying more for their squad than Toronto and no one has less to show for it.
All of this is on Bez of course, who handed the keys to Vanney. We were lining up Giovinco, and have findley, Moore, Dike, Hamilton and possibly Gilberto. We didn't need another forward, we could have spent Altidore $$ on a winger or defender which was sorely needed. The money here is being mismanaged. If we could get Cheyrou as a non-DP then why in fuck do we have altidore making 5 million a year.
Couldn't agree more with everything you said.
this^
I read a lot of your posts trane, you clearly know a lot about the game but calling Bradley a world class midfielder at Roma and Th best CM in MLS is a laugh. Hell, he SHOULD BE the best cm in this league but he's far from it, not even the best midfielder on our team (Cheyrou) and that's where the disappointment comes from.
He was a decent Serie A player but king 10 already pointed out just how little he contributed/played at Roma. There's no way he would've moved to a Roma type club in Europe. He would have had to go to an Everton at most and taken half the salary he's making here.
I blame Leiweke for this mess. I could only see a manager being a decision-maker, if he is a qualified specialist.
Leaving Nelsen there, even for a half season allowed Tim B, glorified accountant, get comfortable in the role he was not supposed to assume, practically directing the club.
Leiweke should go over Bez head now, and appoint a president ( or something like this ) to lead the club. I am fine with a equivalent of Floro or Osieck.
This should bring some sense of continuity and direction to this failing franchise.
You should probably take a look at the Ottawa Fury vs Minnesota United game last night. De Guzman was influential. I think the problem with all these TFC players is that they've never had coaches that knew how to utilize them. Marc dos Santos knows how to best utilize his players. TFC might want to take a look at hiring him if Vanney flames out and Klopp/Arena are not available.
I wanted to make that comment too regarding De Guzman, having watched that game against Minnesota. I think he was selected MOTM. It's fascinating to see him played a role that fit him and the expectations consistent with that role. He was influential controlling the pace, breaking up plays, making simple passes. I still think that the majority of supporters have been completely unfair in their assessment of him. I even had friends come along with me to TFC games that didn't really follow the team (they only watched EPL) and they identified De Guzman as a stand out player that unfortunately had teammates not on the same wave length (e.g. a lot of passes into space that team mates didn't think to run in to). I will maybe concede that De Guzman may not have deserved the DP tag, but he was not a bad player.
This. De Guzman was a holding mid DP with the expectations of an attacking creative midfielder. We had him playing a position he never played.
I see a strong similarity between JDG and Bradley, in which Bradley has this expectation that he's a creative attacking mid who will consistently create goals. But like my man Yohan said all he is a box to box midfielder, who needs space to make decisive passes. He's never was, and never will be that player to influence a game from his 1v1 ability, and on the ground tight through balls to the forwards..
All in all, IMO you can't build a team off a box to box midfielder. Too much responsibility defensively, too much responsibility offensively.
Bradley has been given the keys. The team will be built around him, He is asked his opinion on team decisions. When we fire Vanney and who replaces him also are things that probably will be asked of him. So it does not matter if we overpaid for Altidore, We did as he wished and we got rid of defoe as well. He will be given his stay at the helm until he proves otherwise. the team will continue to be built around Bradley. Dp's get call ups, The better the player, the more call ups. We need a good coach more than anything
Oh this is just glorious. After the petulant fit you threw after I started a thread saying "lets talk about the effectiveness of Gilberto" last year, you go ahead and post this!? And now to top it all off we're waxing poetically about Julian De Guzman.
LO-fucking-L
Pedro Morales won't. Obafemi Martins won't. Neither will Kaka or Villa
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Altidore may never justify his price but that's irrelevant.
Altidore is the cost of the bath that MLSE took on Defoe. That's on Leiweke.
We shouldn't hold Altidore accountable to a salary that Tim L overpaid for Defoe. The best way to shed Defoe's ridiculous contract was to take Altidore in a swap.
Altidore is here and we best get behind him.
Lol someone's still butthurt about an Internet discussion a year ago...get over it. If you actually bothered to read you would know that the main concern here is how the money could be better spent - Gilberto was earning peanuts compared to Altidore, but thanks for your contribution.
How much a DP earns is largely irrelevant. Whether they make 1 million or 6 million matters little in the grand scheme.
About the only way it matters is if you think about the higher costs being passed on to SSH's if the team ever turns around. The way I see it is MLSE is going to fleece you if that happens regardless of how much they have in DP's. Plus, it will probably never happen.
Its still very early in the season. When Bradley isn't tired and firing at 100% we all know his quality. I feel the problem is not with the dps or attacking part of the field, its the defence and keeper. Bendik is very athletic but terrible at reading the game.
It doesn't help that the midfield loves to turn the ball over for no reason. Bradley is #1 culprit at turnovers
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The tone in this thread is very off putting. You guys can disagree with one another without ridiculing the other person and being condescending pricks. If it keeps up, we can shut down the thread and hand out some breaks from the message board, but I trust that we can carry on some adult-level discussion where we disagree without being dicks to one another.
Mmmmkay?
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Hold on that is not quite what I am saying. I do think he is one of the best if not the best CM in the MLS, and I do think he is a world class player, as a CM, meaning that he could play in the best leagues. Do I think he tries to do to much at times yes,but he is one of the best box to box players, in this league, a better system and you would get more out of him. As for Roma, he left in part because they have serious depth at that positions and with strootman and Nanigolan who are also box to box types he moved down the pecking order. My point is that he could easily have moved to a team just like Everton, a team just outside of the champions league( or at the lower levels of the cl) in any of the top euro leagues, so we had to pay him big money for him to come here. He did contribute little at Roma after the first year, that is why we were able to get him.
Roma made the champions league that year, and Strootman was already with the club, and too my recollection naingolan was brought in before the trade, this is why Bradley was willing to leave and Roma willing to let him go, because he was playing less with those too on the club, as they are the same type of player. Now Strootman and Naingolan are two of the best box to box mids in the world. But Roma had been in North America that summer and if you recall they were quite potent already, against us and against the MLS all stars.
JDG went from TFC to some 2nd division Dutch team, then to the Ottawa Fury some 30th rate Canuck team. (sarcasim)
If Bradley were to leave he could join more than likely any top or near the top team in EPL or La Liga. Would he make as much no, but so what. Maybe the system that Vanney runs just doesn't work.
Its really apples and oranges here the 2 aren't comparable.
Perfect question - both players in their primes who would you build your team around? that should tell you all right there as to who you all think is really the 'better' player.
Does it really matter how much any of them get paid?
They overpaid these players to come here for sure. But the cap hit is all we should be concerned with. Are all players DP level - Yes. Then who cares what their contract is beyond some pin the tail on the scapegoat game we all play.
The only thing that looks clear is the man in charge of the teams performance is not able to coach them to the potential they should be achieving. As well we don't have any experienced defensive depth, the kind needed to compete in this league.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
Agreed.
If your play backs up that dollar figure you get paid its irrelevant what any player makes. But when the team is where it is currently it will always come into question by everyone, mainly fans since we pay to watch.
absolutely. the payroll of the team is pretty relevant when you consider that the on field results have been a joke and yet the team has one of the biggest payrolls in the league.
It raises questions as to the effectiveness of team management. Payroll should be reflected by on field performance. It definitely should.
TFC is a total fail.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote