Let's talk about Steven Caldwell

[MartinUtd]

I didn't want to have to do this, but the new transfer rumours thread has already been derailed.

So lets have at it.

The PROS?
-He's experienced
-He's a great vocal communicator
-Leader in the locker room
-Strong tackler
-Well positioned (the high line was a coaching decision, not his)

The CONS?
-Long in the tooth
-Slow on his feet
-Arms prone to flailing (handball and foul hazard)
-Expensive contract ($364k)

It's way too early to project what kind of a season he'll have based on the Vancouver game and more specifically, letting Manneh in behind him. The way I see it is, this is the last year of his contract and we've had a lot of turn over so it's best to keep him for stability reasons. It'd be nice to give Hagglund the odd start beside Perquis because we'll want to know if they're a viable CB combination going forward. For now though, I'm happy with Caldwell. When the summer transfer window arrives I could be signing a different tune, but for now I want him on the team and in the starting XI.

[BelfastBoy]

What he lacks in ability, he makes up for in leadership. Need a guy like this around and in the starting XI. Probably should be his last year though.

[pdubs]

he needs to tape his arms to his sides. it bothers me to no end when he flails all over the place.

[brad]

I look forward to seeing two experienced CB's play together for what I believe is the first time in our history.

[Detroit_TFC]

I look forward to seeing two experienced CB's play together for what I believe is the first time in our history.

This is the key point. Our back line is weak compared to other parts of the team but it's head and shoulders beyond what we usually have to work with. I just don't know.

[Red4ever]

Martin I love almost every contribution you make to this board and don't get me wrong, this is a discussion worth having, but I have never felt as strongly about the midfield with which we have surrounded our defenders. Let's see what they can do. This thread is a little early for this season.

Its one game. I'll jump back in and judge him after 5 or 6 games.

[MartinUtd]

I look forward to seeing two experienced CB's play together for what I believe is the first time in our history.

Did Tyrone Marshall ever pair with Olivier Tebily? Because that's about the closest I can think in terms of experience. Too bad Tebily had to leave so quickly.

[ag futbol]

^ agreed, too early.

One game does not a season make.

[MartinUtd]

Martin I love almost every contribution you make to this board and don't get me wrong, this is a discussion worth having, but I have never felt as strongly about the midfield with which we have surrounded our defenders. Let's see what they can do. This thread is a little early for this season.

Its one game. I'll jump back in and judge him after 5 or 6 games.

Thanks for the kind words. I'll freely admit its too early to have this discussion. But it is a discussion people seem to want to have so I'd rather make a thread for it than clutter up the brand new (single page) transfer thread.

[buddies]

I don't know why either Warren Creavalle or Greg Vanney aren't taking more of a hit than Caldwell for our defensive misgivings on Saturday. Caldwell was hung out to dry if you ask me. I PVR'd the game and after reading all of the stuff directed at him I decided to watch it over again on Sunday. Caldwell was the one left man on man against the second coming of Ben Johnson in Manneh but at least he was in there hacking away. Creavalle was nowhere to be found everytime a ball was lobbed in behind our defence. I don't know whether to blame him or Vanney and I'm surprised that none of the reporters covering TFC asked Vanney about it either. Either Creavalle was way out of position (often not even in his own half) or Vanney asked him to push forward. A blind man could see that we needed him back there after the first breakaway so why it took till halftime to correct the situation ... I don't know. That issue whether it was Creavalle or Vanney, it doesn't matter. It nearly cost us the game.

[A Stick]

He's good in the air and you can see that he's a natural born leader, but he has not been the same since his mid season injury of last year. Hopefully barring injuries one of the young guys will be pushing him for a starting position by the quarter mark of this season.

[brad]

Did Tyrone Marshall ever pair with Olivier Tebily? Because that's about the closest I can think in terms of experience. Too bad Tebily had to leave so quickly.

I think you are right - pretty sure they did, but not for very long.

[Ultra & Proud]

I don't know why either Warren Creavalle or Greg Vanney aren't taking more of a hit than Caldwell for our defensive misgivings on Saturday. Caldwell was hung out to dry if you ask me. I PVR'd the game and after reading all of the stuff directed at him I decided to watch it over again on Sunday. Caldwell was the one left man on man against the second coming of Ben Johnson in Manneh but at least he was in there hacking away. Creavalle was nowhere to be found everytime a ball was lobbed in behind our defence. I don't know whether to blame him or Vanney and I'm surprised that none of the reporters covering TFC asked Vanney about it either. Either Creavalle was way out of position (often not even in his own half) or Vanney asked him to push forward. A blind man could see that we needed him back there after the first breakaway so why it took till halftime to correct the situation ... I don't know. That issue whether it was Creavalle or Vanney, it doesn't matter. It nearly cost us the game.

This is exactly what is was. Caldwell was left out to dry by Creavalle who was AWOL often in the first half. Obviously Caldwell has lost a step but he was playing the high line Vanney wanted and would never recover to catch Manneh. From that position I am not sure Marvel Wynne a few years back would have been able to either. But I do realize that this is a Toronto FC supporters forum so thusly there has to be a goat on the squad at all times regardless of results. I guess in the early stages of 2015 it'll be Caldwell.

[jloome]

I don't know why either Warren Creavalle or Greg Vanney aren't taking more of a hit than Caldwell for our defensive misgivings on Saturday. Caldwell was hung out to dry if you ask me. I PVR'd the game and after reading all of the stuff directed at him I decided to watch it over again on Sunday. Caldwell was the one left man on man against the second coming of Ben Johnson in Manneh but at least he was in there hacking away. Creavalle was nowhere to be found everytime a ball was lobbed in behind our defence. I don't know whether to blame him or Vanney and I'm surprised that none of the reporters covering TFC asked Vanney about it either. Either Creavalle was way out of position (often not even in his own half) or Vanney asked him to push forward. A blind man could see that we needed him back there after the first breakaway so why it took till halftime to correct the situation ... I don't know. That issue whether it was Creavalle or Vanney, it doesn't matter. It nearly cost us the game.

Bit of both. Creavalle is an athletic freak and I suspect Vanney overestimated his ability to play two ways with a high line. It's tough at best when you have a winger helping out, but when you have a guy of Manneh's speed up front, it's very dangerous.

It may have just been a legit gamble that giving them the right channel would force the striker wide repeatedly, making him less dangerous as a forward and more of a winger. But if so they underestimated how quick Manneh is.

As for who takes the blame... no one. We won. Several of us have noted it was a tactical error, but it was corrected a half-time. I'll be very surprised if he makes the right call off the top of the game every week but because we have talent now, we have some leeway to push things and correct as the game progresses.

[ManUtd4ever]

Caldwell's tenure dictates that he deserves a longer look and some leeway in order to adjust to Vanney's tactical approach, but if he can't cut it after a few more games, I would replace him with Hagglund in the starting lineup.

[ryan]

Very fast pitch with top speed players. Won't face that every game.

[JuliquE]

Caldwell's tenure dictates that he deserves a longer look and some leeway in order to adjust to Vanney's tactical approach, but if he can't cut it after a few more games, I would replace him with Hagglund in the starting lineup.

Very fast pitch with top speed players. Won't face that every game.

These two are everything.

[Lumpy]

Long live Steven Caldwell !!!!

[PopePouri]

Caldwell's tenure dictates that he deserves a longer look and some leeway in order to adjust to Vanney's tactical approach, but if he can't cut it after a few more games, I would replace him with Hagglund in the starting lineup.

It extends to Hagglund as well.

Hagglund needs to prove himself on the ball. He was extremely poor during preseason.

[Carts]

Very fast pitch with top speed players. Won't face that every game.

Ya you could tell he was weary of the plastic pitch all match. Which is good awareness, but was awkward to watch at times...

3-1 win, 3pts on the road, natural surface coming up in Columbus - let's do it all over again on Saturday...

Carts...

[Section_105]

Also.....he was part of the group that went out of their minds getting the CBA done. he was probably still feeling the effects of all of that as well.

[MightyDM]

The criticism of Caldwell is missing the point that a high line must be accompanied by high pressing, or the back four is systematically picked off by any competent midfielder. In the first half we were not pressing at all and this allowed the Whitecaps the time to pick us apart. Vanney seemed to point this out in his press conference with his comment about not letting them turn. It's a team mistake, not just a Caldwell mistake.

[flatpicker]

Caldwell just limped by me in the Eaton Centre. Unless it was his clone. He looked a bit uncomfortable.

[ensco]

He isn't coming back, is he. This is just Frings all over again.

What do we need to do to get his cap hit freed up?

[Shway]

He isn't coming back, is he. This is just Frings all over again.

What do we need to do to get his cap hit freed up?

He would have to retire...or be put on the season ending injury list I believe.

[portu]

Caldwell is probably never going to reach the level expected of his salary again. If he truly cared about this club he would take a pay cut

[OgtheDim]

Funny ya'll should bring this up.

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN 9h9 hours ago Caldwell out for Saturday. I'm told New York game would be optimistic at this point. Could be involved after that.


So, Philly.

[Auzzy]

I don't even think there's a "season-ending injury list" in MLS. Cap hit & roster spot stays tied up. (Maybe one of the capoligists can correct me.) I think retiring helps -- I guess that's why they've sometimes offered retiring players coaching or front-office jobs.

[MartinUtd]

Certainly seems like Frings all over again. If they're saying he's close to recovery then I doubt he's going anywhere until the season is over. I just hope he still has it when he does come back.

[jabbronies]

Caldwell is done. I wished he could've played out the season, but it's been too long now.
He wasn't fast enough to begin with and this time off does not help him. Even if he does come back, he won't come back to where we need him to be.

Don't be surprised to see a "Steven Caldwell retires" thread before the transfer window closes, followed a week or so later by a headline that reads"TFC sign CB {insert name here}".