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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Curious about the Jays. Do you know how much of the jump comes from people in the rest of Canada vs in the GTA?
    Hey Brad... Just some stats for you... Its Canada compared to the GTA, but Ontario vs Que/Maritimes vs Alberta-Sask-Manitoba vs BC...

    Aug 26th Jays Rating = 1,678,000

    SN East = 283,000 (17%)
    SN Ontario =900,000 (53%)
    SN West = 171,000 (10%)
    SN Pacific = 320,000 (19%)

    (I rounded the %)

    Carts...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


  2. #212
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    Amazing numbers!

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    According to Chris Zelkowich's blog the TFC game drew only 50,000 viewers on Sunday. The Jays are killing everything now averaging FOR THE YEAR 880,000 per game for their 140+ games with their four games over the weekend averaging over 1.7 million. NFL and CFL the only others in the Top Ten of this past weekend.

    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...190426882.html

    While the success of the Jays is hurting some sports audiences -- CFL ratings are down 12 per cent on TSN -- they didn't affect the NFL on its opening week. Taking advantage of a Jays rainout, Thursday's opener between New England and Pittsburgh averaged 708,000 on TSN -- a 40 per cent improvement on last year's opening game. That doesn't factor in the unknown numbers who watched that game on NBC, so that should bode well for the NFL this season.
    Despite competing with the Jays and the CFL, the NFL did well on the weekend, too. CTV' early games were up 14 per cent over last season's first weekend, while the late game showed a 20 per cent jump.
    And while the Saskatchewan-Winnipeg game (702,000) fared well against the Jays on Saturday, the Friday night Hamilton-Toronto battle was well below average. Sunday's Ottawa-B.C. game (464,000) was outdrawn by CTV's late afternoon NFL package (817,000.)
    Maybe that explains what happened with Toronto FC, whose Sunday afternoon game against New England drew all of 50,000 viewers to Sportsnet 360.
    Here are the most-watched English-language sports events from the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:
    1. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees Game 2, Saturday, Sportsnet: 1,870,000
    2. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees Game 1, Saturday, Sportsnet: 1,760,000
    3. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Friday, Sportsnet: 1,730,000
    4. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Sunday, Sportsnet: 1,430,000
    5. NFL, Ravens-Broncos/Saints-Cards, Sunday, CTV: 817,000
    6. CFL, Roughriders at Bombers, Saturday, TSN: 702,000
    7. NFL, early games, Sunday, CTV: 685,000
    8. CFL, Stampeders at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 635,000
    9. NFL, Giants at Cowboys, Sunday, TSN: 520,000 (NBC viewers not measured)
    10. CFL, Redblacks at Lions, Sunday, TSN: 464,000
    11. CFL, Ticats at Argonauts, Friday, TSN: 418,000
    12. Tennis, U.S. Open men's final, Sunday, TSN: 391,000
    13. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge men's final, Sunday, Sportsnet: 372,000
    14. Tennis, U.S. Open women's final, Saturday, TSN: 265,000
    15. Soccer, Liverpool at Manchester United, Saturday, Sportsnet: 236,000
    16. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge women's final, Sunday, Sportsnet: 204,000
    17. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping, Sunday, CBC: 173,000
    18. Auto racing, NASCAR Sprint Cup, Saturday, TSN: 163,000
    19. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge men's quarters, Saturday, Sportsnet: 144,000
    20. Basketball, Canada vs. Venezuela, Friday, TSN: 143,000
    21. Soccer, English Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 142,000
    22. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping (evening), Saturday, CBC: 140,000
    22. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge (evening), Friday, Sportsnet: 140,000
    24. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping (afternoon), Saturday, CBC: 136,000
    25. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge semifinals, Saturday, Sportsnet: 116,000

  4. #214
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    The issue for TFC Sunday wasn't the Jays (that game was a 1pm start). The issue is the lack of buzz. They drew 20% of the Liverpool-Man United game earlier the same day. That is not validation for Leiweke spending $100M.

    The Jays drawing 1.4M Sunday, head to head with the NFL, including the Bills, that is unreal.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The issue for TFC Sunday wasn't the Jays (that game was a 1pm start). The issue is the lack of buzz. They drew 20% of the Liverpool-Man United game earlier the same day. That is not validation for Leiweke spending $100M.

    The Jays drawing 1.4M Sunday, head to head with the NFL, including the Bills, that is unreal.
    Now tomorrow night with the Reds going head to head against the Blue Jays juggernaut, that will be an interesting number to see.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Better not show Giovinco that chart. He has moved to a place where his team is being trounced by show jumping in the ratings.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelPat View Post
    According to Chris Zelkowich's blog the TFC game drew only 50,000 viewers on Sunday. The Jays are killing everything now averaging FOR THE YEAR 880,000 per game for their 140+ games with their four games over the weekend averaging over 1.7 million. NFL and CFL the only others in the Top Ten of this past weekend.
    To be fair the Jays are the only professional baseball team for the entire country. If Montreal still had a team or if Vancouver had a team would the Jays still have those numbers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Better not show Giovinco that chart. He has moved to a place where his team is being trounced by show jumping in the ratings.
    He might feel worse when someone shows him what curling actually is.

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    Hat tip to OgTheDim, who posted this elsewhere. A great read.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...he-future.html

    TSN getting 260K for the playoff game cannot be characterized as anything other than massively disappointing.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Hat tip to OgTheDim, who posted this elsewhere. A great read.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...he-future.html

    TSN getting 260K for the playoff game cannot be characterized as anything other than massively disappointing.
    2.6million unique viewers over 2 networks for a first round Thursday night playoff game... It could be worse.
    Thats being said, I thought this game would be marketed much much heavier than it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    2.6million unique viewers over 2 networks for a first round Thursday night playoff game... It could be worse.
    Thats being said, I thought this game would be marketed much much heavier than it was.
    The "unique viewer" game causes guffaws in the industry - it is never defined (it is clicks, most likely, but who knows? There clearly was an online audience, but there is an online audience for everything, it's not something any TV sports advertiser pays for yet, whatever people may think.

    If you are watching the game online and you reload six times watching the game because it's buffering, that is six clicks. Watch the highlights 3 or 4 different times? That is 3 or 4 clicks.

    btw the lower you go on the ratings list, the more the online presence increases. It's true for everything, NASCAR, curling, soccer, you name it.... but like I said, they get paid ad click rates for that, which is a tiny fraction of TV viewer rates
    Last edited by ensco; 12-06-2015 at 10:00 AM.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The "unique viewer" game causes guffaws in the industry - it is never defined (it is clicks, most likely, but who knows? There clearly was an online audience, but there is an online audience for everything, it's not something any TV sports advertiser pays for yet, whatever people may think.

    If you are watching the game online and you reload six times watching the game because it's buffering, that is six clicks. Watch the highlights 3 or 4 different times? That is 3 or 4 clicks.

    btw the lower you go on the ratings list, the more the online presence increases. It's true for everything, NASCAR, curling, soccer, you name it.... but like I said, they get paid ad click rates for that, which is a tiny fraction of TV viewer rates
    The unique viewer number is still only television, not online streaming. Average audience is whatever amount of time is deemed enough to say that person was watching the game, while being part of that 2.6 million unique viewers can be as little as channel surfing and watching the game for a couple minutes before moving on to something else. So as you alluded advertisers aren't going to care about that number, in most cases it's just something for networks to include in press releases.

    But unique viewers for online streaming is tracked by IP addresses, not clicks. You can reload a stream as much as you want, the viewer count won't increase because you are connecting from the same address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    The unique viewer number is still only television, not online streaming. Average audience is whatever amount of time is deemed enough to say that person was watching the game, while being part of that 2.6 million unique viewers can be as little as channel surfing and watching the game for a couple minutes before moving on to something else. So as you alluded advertisers aren't going to care about that number, in most cases it's just something for networks to include in press releases.

    But unique viewers for online streaming is tracked by IP addresses, not clicks. You can reload a stream as much as you want, the viewer count won't increase because you are connecting from the same address.
    That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

    It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-06-2015 at 05:22 PM.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

    It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.
    I am willing to believe that 2.6M number on TV way before I believe it includes anything from online viewership. The only online source for that game that Bell would report on is TSN/RDS Go, which are both complementary to a cable/satellite subscription and thus anyone with access to those platforms would have access to TSN or RDS on TV.

    The game was on the main TSN/RDS network. You think it's impossible that 2.6 million people turned their sets to see what was on TSN at the time of the game (or more specifically, a number proportional to 2.6M out of the people who provide data to Numeris)?

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    And another article by Johnathan Tannenwald, this time about MLS Cup ratings.

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    ^That online viewership number of 32000 "average minute impressions" is interesting. They are trying to put real numbers out there (that is a well-understood Nielsen TV metric), to give people some real info to base trends off. That is only 5% of the TV ratings, lower than I would have thought.

    I respect ESPN for talking about this like grownups. It is a courtesy the property owners in this country will not give us. Instead they feed us unadulterated BS about "2.6 million unique viewers".

    Going to bookmark this guy. He is discussing this topic on a whole other level. Thanks Og
    Last edited by ensco; 12-13-2015 at 10:19 PM.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    ESPN's 32K online number is truly conservative, as it probably won't catch people watching illegally or through VPNs. However you slice it though, the reality is that online viewership is miniscule

    But I congratulate them for thinking this through. There will be real growth from here, and we (the advertisers, the public and the networks) can all measure that growth in a way that is consistent with existing industry standards. Someday it will matter.

    Can we finally please stop having every conversation about TFC's TV ratings hijacked by narratives about supposed big online viewing numbers that are total nonsense? I get that there are a bunch of very smart people here that have unplugged and/or go 100% over the top. But in aggregate, it's less than nothing.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-14-2015 at 09:24 AM.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    The numbers are terrible, been terrible and will be terrible. This is rationalized somewhat by being concentrated in favorable demographics and also there are general growth trends (year over year % change varies). I used to think there were easy, mechanical fixes (days, times, celebrity signings, etc) for ratings improvements that could be leveraged by better marketing by the networks but now I think it is simply cultural and only time will improve things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

    It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.
    I think I speak for the masses when I ask… it was on TV? Who played?

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    Look soccer on TV here in North America apart from the big events, The World Cups, The Euros and so on does not do good numbers when compared to the so called big four in North America. MLS on TV is a very hard sell . Those numbers for the MLS Cup final does not surprise me why would we think that based on the numbers the MLS was getting during the regular season the MLS Cup numbers would be any better. I'm a soccer fan it's my number one sport by far so for me it's natural for me to be a TFC fan, but I will watch TFC when I can on TV when they play away or I can't make it to the stadium. I also watch non TFC MLS games when I can too, and for me without question I will watch the championship game of the league the team that I support plays in, so of course I will watch an MLS Cup. I realize that the great majority of people that follow TFC probably would never watch an MLS game that TFC is not involved in even the championship final the MLS Cup. I do find it odd that people who have an interest in TFC would not even watch an MLS Cup because when it comes to the other North American sports league Leafs fans or Canadians fans do watch say the Stanley Cup Finals even when their teams are not in it, but not true when it comes to the MLS where most TFC fans probably like someone mentioned would not of known when it was on or who was playing in it. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    Look soccer on TV here in North America apart from the big events, The World Cups, The Euros and so on does not do good numbers when compared to the so called big four in North America. MLS on TV is a very hard sell . Those numbers for the MLS Cup final does not surprise me why would we think that based on the numbers the MLS was getting during the regular season the MLS Cup numbers would be any better. I'm a soccer fan it's my number one sport by far so for me it's natural for me to be a TFC fan, but I will watch TFC when I can on TV when they play away or I can't make it to the stadium. I also watch non TFC MLS games when I can too, and for me without question I will watch the championship game of the league the team that I support plays in, so of course I will watch an MLS Cup. I realize that the great majority of people that follow TFC probably would never watch an MLS game that TFC is not involved in even the championship final the MLS Cup. I do find it odd that people who have an interest in TFC would not even watch an MLS Cup because when it comes to the other North American sports league Leafs fans or Canadians fans do watch say the Stanley Cup Finals even when their teams are not in it, but not true when it comes to the MLS where most TFC fans probably like someone mentioned would not of known when it was on or who was playing in it. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is I guess.
    To be fair....the level of play is also much better in the NHL than MLS. I wouldn't be surprised if the EPL gets a lot more viewers in North America than MLS and that is all down to the quality of play....

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    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    FYI

    Forbes demands people drop their ad blocker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    FYI

    Forbes demands people drop their ad blocker.
    that's why god created incognito mode

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    It shows you MLS is heading right direction based on numbers mention in that article. Not only numbers up, but they got right demographic viewing their product that they can build on for long term.

    I just wish MLS got rid of local blackouts so I can ditch TV and watch TFC play online (legally and in HD/4K) on MLS app.

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    ^That article is pure PR spin. "30M discreet viewers" is not something advertisers pay for, it's a function of putting it on Euro TV.

    I agree with the trend part, but MLS is 10-20 years away from being "4th". You need to look at the ratings for a Stanley Cup playoff game, vs MLS Cup. It's not close.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^That article is pure PR spin. "30M discreet viewers" is not something advertisers pay for, it's a function of putting it on Euro TV.

    I agree with the trend part, but MLS is 10-20 years away from being "4th". You need to look at the ratings for a Stanley Cup playoff game, vs MLS Cup. It's not close.
    Outside of Canada and the Northern states, MLS is already 4th. Mind you, 4th is close to zero compared with gridiron.

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    It's national, not just the northeast. And it's not remotely close. MLS is miles behind hockey, even in southern markets.

    Just to make this clear - in Boston and Los Angeles, a recent for instance:

    Revolution MLS Cup TV ratings last year were 3.17 in Boston and 1.66 in LA last year, when they played.
    http://sportsvideo.org/main/blog/201...-hit-for-espn/

    Bruins Stanley Cup Final TV ratings in 2013 were 43 ish in Boston. Kings did 12 ish in LA in 2014. Over many more games.

    It is not really a debate.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-25-2015 at 12:05 PM.
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    Here is an article in reference to TV hockey ratings in some markets in the US, I agree they are better than MLS ratings but some of these hockey TV ratings in a lot of hockey markets are nothing to gloat about either. http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-conte...35975EE590.jpg. I see a lot of markets with 0. whatever as the average viewership in a lot of hockey markets, yes MLS is way behind but some of those markets have MLS like numbers. These numbers were from a sportsnet article back in April 2015.
    Last edited by SoccMan2; 12-28-2015 at 12:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Outside of Canada and the Northern states, MLS is already 4th. Mind you, 4th is close to zero compared with gridiron.
    The 4th what? Professional league? Well that's also misleading.

    NFL, NASCAR, College Football, College Basketball. There is no way MLS is topping any of those leagues in the south, west, or whatever. I don't know what the regional number are for the nba but judging by their mega TV which has salaries in the stratosphere I doubt they are under MLS.

    Let's just back this up and admit the TV ratings are terrible because they've only tweaked this formula as far to be good, local, live entertainment. As a TV product, it's better than it was 5 years ago but not good enough to be a ratings winner.

 

 

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