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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    interesting that most of the viewers are 35-49 yrs old. And 40% are female. people in my section seem younger and not alot of women.

    still numbers are so low and pathetic that you cant read too much into it. Got to hand it to MLSE they've put the money into the Stadium despite getting no traction on interest level. Maybe some of that money would have been better spent on marketing.
    I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    It would be interesting to see what the ratings would be like if we ever managed to put a winning streak together.
    i think they got worst every game when defoe got on his run first half of last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable
    if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box
    Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

    Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable
    I don't think soccer viewing is intrinsically younger than other sports. The BMO crowd is mostly suits and families, away from the south end. I could see that argument for basketball though. That is a younger, hipper crowd at the ACC.

    MLS being a minor league is part of it, but TFC especially is a complete joke to most casual fans.

    I don't think any of us here want to wallow in the depth of that. Most people have to practically apologize for watching or going to the games! Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.

    The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-07-2015 at 07:15 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post

    The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.
    Yes, winning is the only thing that will do it. Any other kind of identity change will just be more marketing from a huge corporation that likely won't resonate with people. But if the team wins no one cares how soulless the corp is behind the scenes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.
    Haha ain't that the truth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box
    A very narrow viewpoint which is completely wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

    Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.
    Precisely.

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    Legal cord cutting isn't always the less expensive option when you factor in data, equipment and event costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

    Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.
    yah, my household certainly isnt poor, we just find no need for cable. We never watched it when we had it. rather donate it than burn it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Legal cord cutting isn't always the less expensive option when you factor in data, equipment and event costs.
    maybe not in Canada, but eventually it will have to be

    if you live in the states
    mls live + netflix + Sling (cable service over an app, http://www.cnet.com/news/sling-tv-ev...-need-to-know/)
    and if you want the good stuff, + HBO GO
    all that on amazon fire tv

    100% legal, better, and cheaper than cable

    not to mention their antenna channel selection and quantity is superior to ours,
    Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 04-07-2015 at 09:35 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don't think soccer viewing is intrinsically younger than other sports. The BMO crowd is mostly suits and families, away from the south end. I could see that argument for basketball though. That is a younger, hipper crowd at the ACC.

    MLS being a minor league is part of it, but TFC especially is a complete joke to most casual fans.

    I don't think any of us here want to wallow in the depth of that. Most people have to practically apologize for watching or going to the games! Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.

    The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.

    The live event crowd is younger than the that TV audience. also i'm in 107 and i find most of the people in the seats aren't the seatholders, they just got free tix given to them and just decided to go, that might affect the numbers because the people in the seats are the ones with the $$$.

    I find hardcore footy fans won't even sniff at TFC. They will watch EPL, champions league, even the ethiopian league on GOLTV, but they don't consider TFC football.
    Last edited by Qman; 04-07-2015 at 09:45 AM.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    interesting that most of the viewers are 35-49 yrs old. And 40% are female. people in my section seem younger and not alot of women.

    still numbers are so low and pathetic that you cant read too much into it. Got to hand it to MLSE they've put the money into the Stadium despite getting no traction on interest level. Maybe some of that money would have been better spent on marketing.
    They're not as bad as people think.

    A prime time Raptors game against a marquee opponent drew under 150,000. The $$$ cost for rights and production is much, much, much higher.

    To get 90,000 mid day during a long weekend, on a secondary channel is quite strong.

    If it was on a major network (on all TSN 1/3/4/5 or all SNet On/Pac/Est/Wst) you can add 50,000 or more just with that.

    I know people compare it to NHL, Curling, CFL, Jays - but in truth, the numbers have been strong (always blips and dips for sure) and growing over the long haul.

    Liverpool vs ManU did over 350,000 on TSN (1/3/4/5) at 9:30am on a Saturday - marquee match at a non-marquee time. The audiences for footy are growing - they take time - but they are growing and feedback/thoughts are positive within the industry.

    Carts...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


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    The reality is that TV ratings are becoming increasingly less significant, and that's not just some isolated Toronto-centric guess or opinion. The purpose of TV ratings is to set advertising rates, and advertisers generally prefer to target audiences younger than the people who still respond to TV ratings surveys. Digital advertising has already surpassed TV in Canada, and is continuing to increase while TV advertising decreases. The median age of CBS viewers in the U.S. is 58.7 years old and going up.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle20764831/
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/b...or-old-people/
    http://www.businessinsider.com/tv-vs...#ixzz3LhL5M3RB
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/niel...ideo-1.2944432

    Not only do younger people watch less of the old-fashioned TV channels, but Numeris now has to advertise to encourage people to participate in their surveys.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/...ticle22838581/

    "To assemble the panels, Numeris needs to call people at home, ask them a few questions and invite them to participate."
    Think about that. It's 2015 -- who still answers phone calls from unrecognized numbers, or even still has a home phone? Is it any wonder that it's things like curling that still do well in TV ratings?
    Last edited by Heepster; 04-09-2015 at 12:54 PM.

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    Interesting.

    Numeris has been doing ads on 102.1 (i.e. 30 - 50 year old land) for months begging for people to answer the phones when they call.

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    its im no expert, but I imagine product placement is becoming increasingly important for TV and audiences that have gotten use to commerical free viewing
    shirt sponsors in soccer, microsoft phones in house of cards, McDs cofee mugs one one of those talent shows, etc

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Interesting.

    Numeris has been doing ads on 102.1 (i.e. 30 - 50 year old land) for months begging for people to answer the phones when they call.

    That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.



    TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country. They are pagers that people wear that catch a signal in Canadian TV signals whether your at the mall, gym, streaming on computer, watching PVRs or live TV. You have to wear them all the time. Everything is tracked. If you don't wear it for 15 minutes during the day, you'll get a call to make sure your wear your pager.
    Last edited by Qman; 04-09-2015 at 01:36 PM.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.



    TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country. They are pagers that people wear that catch a signal in Canadian TV signals whether your at the mall, gym, streaming on computer, watching PVRs or live TV. You have to wear them all the time. Everything is tracked. If you don't wear it for 15 minutes during the day, you'll get a call to make sure your wear your pager.
    Okay, but point stands that younger population don't watch TV as much as old generation to a point that we got BBM (or whatever they're calling themselves these days) trying to get younger crowd to participate to do their surveys.

    Reality is that TV ratings is becoming less relevant and advertisers are invest in more into online ads than ever before to target younger generation.

    In the long term, Cable TV will become what landline phone is right now. Cable TV will be there, but less relevant since a lot more people will be watching their shows/sports through internet/mobile device. This is why we're seeing telecommunication companies offering unlimited Canada wide-calling and texting while reducing data today unlike decade ago where it was other way around (limited talk minutes and texts while offering a lot of data).

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    Easter weekend ratings for MLS were #31. Caps vs Galaxy at 109k and #34. TFC vs Fire at 90k. Top rated football match was #25. Liverpool vs Arsenal at 176k which had the early Saturday 730am slot.

    NHL & curling continue to dominate with Jays coming on strong.

    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...143005264.html

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heepster View Post
    Is it any wonder that it's things like curling that still do well in TV ratings?
    It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

    If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

    Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

    Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

    Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

    If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

    Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

    Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

    Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.
    Although there is a difference between participating in a sport as a youth and paying to watch a professional sport as an adult, there's probably enough of a connection to support this.

    The big issue for MLSE and companies like them will be how do they get people to pay to watch sports? Especially non 'best in the world' sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Okay, but point stands that younger population don't watch TV as much as old generation to a point that we got BBM (or whatever they're calling themselves these days) trying to get younger crowd to participate to do their surveys.

    Reality is that TV ratings is becoming less relevant and advertisers are invest in more into online ads than ever before to target younger generation.

    In the long term, Cable TV will become what landline phone is right now. Cable TV will be there, but less relevant since a lot more people will be watching their shows/sports through internet/mobile device. This is why we're seeing telecommunication companies offering unlimited Canada wide-calling and texting while reducing data today unlike decade ago where it was other way around (limited talk minutes and texts while offering a lot of data).

    right now streamers are extremely low number of viewers. but your right, in the future, streaming could become more relevant. MLB has the biggest potential with games during the day (when most work) and lots and lots of games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carts View Post
    Liverpool vs ManU did over 350,000 on TSN (1/3/4/5) at 9:30am on a Saturday - marquee match at a non-marquee time. The audiences for footy are growing - they take time - but they are growing and feedback/thoughts are positive within the industry.

    Carts...
    problem with this is alot of these viewers, won't watch MLS and think its shit.

    If you can get almost every premiership game every week, all these footy fans bypass MLS totally. Thats got to be a big concern for MLSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.
    TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country...
    What? Of course it has something to do with TV ratings. As the article describes, they first have to call people to get them to agree to do it. They don't have squads of enforcers roaming Canada and tackling randomly selected people they force to wear a ppm whether they want to or not.
    And, what they avoided mentioning in the article is how much of it is still done by asking people to fill out and return diaries by mail, as they've been doing for decades. Someone I know did it just last October, although only for radio according to him, and then a couple of weeks later they sent him a pointless and annoying 70-page survey to be completed. He said he made the mistake of answering his phone in the first place only because he was expecting a call from a relative.
    Last edited by Heepster; 04-09-2015 at 06:33 PM.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    Although there is a difference between participating in a sport as a youth and paying to watch a professional sport as an adult, there's probably enough of a connection to support this.

    The big issue for MLSE and companies like them will be how do they get people to pay to watch sports? Especially non 'best in the world' sports.
    I don't think participation in sport has much impact on viewership. They are two very different things.

    I would hazard a guess that participation is on the decline because of the rise of video games - kids would rather play FIFA or NHL on their Xbox than play an actual sport.

    MLSE have had a problem so far getting people to pay to watch sports. Despite the ups and downs (err downs) that TFC have had people still go. As long as people are buying their Leafs seasons they will be happy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heepster View Post
    What? Of course it has something to do with TV ratings. As the article describes, they first have to call people to get them to agree to do it. They don't have squads of enforcers roaming Canada and tackling randomly selected people they force to wear a ppm whether they want to or not.
    And, what they avoided mentioning in the article is how much of it is still done by asking people to fill out and return diaries by mail, as they've been doing for decades. Someone I know did it just last October, although only for radio according to him, and then a couple of weeks later they sent him a pointless and annoying 70-page survey to be completed. He said he made the mistake of answering his phone in the first place only because he was expecting a call from a relative.

    the article has lots of fuckups in it. The call people primarily for the focus group business - why don't you have cable, how have your viewing habits changed, view on advertising, that shit. PPM users are random and represent all parts of society - social economic, age, region, etc

    The diaries haven't been done for years and years for TV. It just radio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    ... PPM users are random ...
    Please explain how you think they get people to do this if you don't think they have to first call them and get them to answer and agree to participate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    ... The diaries haven't been done for years and years for TV. It just radio.
    Really now? Odd that the Numeris (the name they just adopted in June 2014, less than a year ago) website has instructions for people on how to fill out their TV ratings diaries if they haven't existed for "years and years".
    http://en.numeris.ca/participants/tv-diary
    Last edited by Heepster; 04-09-2015 at 09:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heepster View Post
    Please explain how you think they get people to do this if you don't think they have to first call them and get them to answer and agree to participate.Really now? Odd that the Numeris (the name they just adopted in June 2014, less than a year ago) website has instructions for people on how to fill out their TV ratings diaries if they haven't existed for "years and years".
    http://en.numeris.ca/participants/tv-diary
    PPM data is used for the ratings. Overnight/fast numbers come out one-two days later. You can't do TV diaries in two days. Switched to PPMs over 5-7 years ago. TV diaries aren't done for ratings, they do it more information on viewing habbits. bbm's website is worth shit -- its the last place you should look.
    Last edited by Qman; 04-09-2015 at 11:35 PM.

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    Uh, yeah, I guess their own website is just full of completely fabricated stuff about themselves.
    And you still didn't answer the question about how you think they get people to participate if you don't think they have to call them first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

    If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

    Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

    Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

    Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.
    Old man rant time!!!!

    i dont think obeisity is the only problem, we have a whole geenration of male and female that think the skinny look (not to be confused with fit) is cool. I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but hipsterism is killing society

    We have a generation of girls that think a 6ft, 95lb male is attractive. And the same with males thinking skinny females is sexy. (obviously female skinny is an older problem)

 

 

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