TFC 2015 In-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[molenshtain]

Appreciate the humour, but Defoe is or was a world class striker. No doubt there. But - had a hard time being a starter in the Premier league, as his talents and limitations, including size, were better off the bench. So does Giovinco leave us to be an impact sub at Watford? Unlikely, although he'd do the job.

Let's not be delusional. He is not and was never a 'world class striker'. The best stint of his career was being the third best striker for a team that finished mid-table every year and got kicked out routinely in the early rounds of a tournament where they played other slightly above mid-table teams from across the continent.

I hate it when people use the term 'world class' as a catch all phrase for anyone who's played in the PL or for a reasonably sized club on the mainland. 'World class' implies they are at the top of their class in whatever position. For instance, Lewandowski and Suarez (and messi and Ronaldo if you want to classify etheme as forewards) are forwards who are genuinely miles better then their competition. Therefore, world class. Defoe? not so much.

[MightyDM]

Let's not be delusional. He is not and was never a 'world class striker'. The best stint of his career was being the third best striker for a team that finished mid-table every year and got kicked out routinely in the early rounds of a tournament where they played other slightly above mid-table teams from across the continent.

I hate it when people use the term 'world class' as a catch all phrase for anyone who's played in the PL or for a reasonably sized club on the mainland. 'World class' implies they are at the top of their class in whatever position. For instance, Lewandowski and Suarez (and messi and Ronaldo if you want to classify etheme as forewards) are forwards who are genuinely miles better then their competition. Therefore, world class. Defoe? not so much.

i have to disagree with you. Defoe is or was a world class finisher, in the very tiny elite of players who could finish at the highest level. That isn't debatable. Sorry. Did he have a complete game? No. Was he Messi? No. But his finishing is at the absolute elite level, that's just a fact .

[MightyDM]

That had a lot more to do with his talents and the fact spurs had better players in thier squad (Defoe has never been close to world class) rather than his size. Take Robbie Keane from the same team for example. He's 5ft 7.

As a finisher, he is or was. Lots of other weaknesses. But not finishing.

[ensco]

Defoe didn't do enough for the England MNT or in Champions League to be world class, for me. He should have been called more and/or bought by a CL team, if he was really one of the greats.

He was certainly one of the elite EPL scorers for a long time.

[OgtheDim]

Defoe is to EPL what Wondo is to MLS

[molenshtain]

i have to disagree with you. Defoe is or was a world class finisher, in the very tiny elite of players who could finish at the highest level. That isn't debatable. Sorry. Did he have a complete game? No. Was he Messi? No. But his finishing is at the absolute elite level, that's just a fact .

It is definitely debatable. If he was in fact world class, why did he never play for a better team? or consistently start for the mid-table ones he did play for? How can a world class finisher at one point go 23 consecutive games without scoring?

Defoe is in a class of strikers sitting right beside the likes of Darren Bent and Andy Johnson. He's basically just an ok player for that level.

[molenshtain]

He was certainly one of the elite EPL scorers for a long time.

But he wasn't. He's had two seasons in his career where he's scored man than 11 league goals, not including the Bournemouth loan stint.

[MightyDM]

Defoe didn't do enough for the England MNT or in Champions League to be world class, for me. He should have been called more and/or bought by a CL team, if he was really one of the greats.

He was certainly one of the elite EPL scorers for a long time.

I can agree with elite.

[GonfiaLaRete]

Did Defoe ever hit 20 goals in one premier league season(excluding cups or european games)?

[molenshtain]

Did Defoe ever hit 20 goals in one premier league season(excluding cups or european games)?

no. he hit 18 once and 14 another time.

[ensco]

It is definitely debatable. If he was in fact world class, why did he never play for a better team? or consistently start for the mid-table ones he did play for? How can a world class finisher at one point go 23 consecutive games without scoring?

Defoe is in a class of strikers sitting right beside the likes of Darren Bent and Andy Johnson. He's basically just an ok player for that level.

He is a cut above those guys (well, Johnson for sure, anyways), based on longevity. Scoring 10-15 goals a year for 10 years at that level is fairly unusual.

11th on the all time EPL scoring list (amazing some of the names near him - Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink? never would have guessed)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._or_more_goals

[GonfiaLaRete]

no. he hit 18 once and 14 another time.

That is pretty much a disqualification in its own right in the "is he elite" topic. Did he ever win the Golden boot or come in top 3 or top 5 for that matter? If you hit 15 goals one time in your career I don't think you can be considered elite. Hell, Luca Toni scored 20 goals in each of the last two seasons.

[notthesun]

Toni is an elite level finisher too, though.

I think there's two different discussions going on here. One about Defoe's finishing ability, and one about his overall ability.

Overall, Defoe has never been a world class player. He has some weaknesses in his overall game that have prevented that from happening. He's never been good enough to be a consistent starter on league-challenging team.

His finishing has always been elite though. You can argue the term "world class" in this respect but regardless, he is obviously a cut above your average top 5 European league striker in terms of finishing ability. It's why he's always stuck around in the Premier League. He might be a ghost for most of a match, or turn the ball over on some suspect passing or selfish play, but managers know if he gets a decent chance the ball's going in the back of the net.

[MartinUtd]

We bringing Defoe back? Is Luca Toni available? Sounds like some juicy speculation.

[Richard]

Defoe is just another overated Englishman, why are we talking about him again?

[Derko]

Defoe is just another overated Englishman, why are we talking about him again?

Yes Defoe is just another overrated PLAYER, (sans the Englishman please) and yes why are we talking about a player who didn't really want to be in Toronto.

[burlington Red]

That is pretty much a disqualification in its own right in the "is he elite" topic. Did he ever win the Golden boot or come in top 3 or top 5 for that matter? If you hit 15 goals one time in your career I don't think you can be considered elite. Hell, Luca Toni scored 20 goals in each of the last two seasons.

I agree he wasn't world class, but your reasoning is a bit simplistic at best. Michael Owen didn't get 20 goals in a PL season, yet there's no doubt as his peak he was world class. kevin Phillips when at Sunderland won the golden boot once, doesn't him world class.

[Oldtimer]

OK everyone, mod team kicking in here, please get back on topic:
moves/speculation/rumours

Discussion of past players, except in passing, is OFF TOPIC. Thank-you!

[Areathrasher]

Jesse Gonzalez seems to have won the #1 job in Dallas. Wonder if Dan Kennedy would be available in the offseason

Kennedy has the same agent as Bradley so curious if something happens with him and us.

[Oldtimer]

I've deleted some Giovinco-related posts as off-topic. Seba is just as off-topic to player moves as Defoe.

The Giovinco thread is here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...hlights/page14

[Detroit_TFC]

Jesse Gonzalez seems to have won the #1 job in Dallas. Wonder if Dan Kennedy would be available in the offseason

Kennedy has the same agent as Bradley so curious if something happens with him and us.

Hmmm, something to think about. On $233K but if you want to upgrade, it costs $.

[notthesun]

Jesse Gonzalez seems to have won the #1 job in Dallas. Wonder if Dan Kennedy would be available in the offseason

Kennedy has the same agent as Bradley so curious if something happens with him and us.

Not a bad shout. 233k is a little more than I'd like us to spend on a keeper but it would be worth it if he can really shore up our issues back there.

[Pint]

If we decide to spend 200+K on a keeper we really need to get rid of both guys we have right now and have Q and Bono rotate as the backup (I would go with Q but i believe management like Bono). Can't really afford to spend 250k on a starter then have 120-150K on the bench. As we saw when LA lost their keeper this year, it's not hard to pick up a lower end starting keeper if yours gets injured or leaves.

[Ultra & Proud]

Most teams who are good and have reliable goal keepers are all spending over $200K.

[rydermike]

If we decide to spend 200+K on a keeper we really need to get rid of both guys we have right now and have Q and Bono rotate as the backup (I would go with Q but i believe management like Bono). Can't really afford to spend 250k on a starter then have 120-150K on the bench. As we saw when LA lost their keeper this year, it's not hard to pick up a lower end starting keeper if yours gets injured or leaves.

Currently our keepers are:
Bendik - 150,000 (157,375)
Konopka - 66,000 (66,000)
Bono - 60,000 (80,200)
Roberts - 60,000 (60,000)

If we do go and get a 200k+ keeper, Bendik needs to go.

I was under the impression that Bono and Roberts do not count against the cap as Generation Adidas and Home Grown Players, respectively. Is that correct?

Normally, I would prefer to go with 3 rather than 4 keepers, but with Konopka at 66k and if the other two are cap exempt, this could allow us to use one of Bono/Roberts as the TFC2 keeper and possibly loan out the other one? Not sure how feasible it is, getting a team to play a loaned keeper is probably difficult. Or they could rotate at TFC2 as they did this year. If neither of them are cap exempt anymore, then I think we should move down to 3 keepers, especially if we find a better keeper

[Areathrasher]

Yea, Bono and Roberts don't count towards the cap.

Dallas have $360k tied up in Kennedy and Seitz. Gonzalez is HG so you'd think they'd want rid of one of Kennedy and Seitz.

[jloome]

Yea, Bono and Roberts don't count towards the cap.

Dallas have $360k tied up in Kennedy and Seitz. Gonzalez is HG so you'd think they'd want rid of one of Kennedy and Seitz.

Jaime Penedo didn't get a new club after walking out on LA. They cancelled his contract, so we could trade for his rights and sign him.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/1...ver-sudden-mls

[PopePouri]

I think Dan Kennedy is a valid option for us.

[OgtheDim]

Penedo's listed current agent, who gave him bad advice, happens to also be Justin Morrow's, among others.

[MightyDM]

OK everyone, mod team kicking in here, please get back on topic:
moves/speculation/rumours


Discussion of past players, except in passing, is OFF TOPIC. Thank-you!

we will do what we are told, but just remember there is no game this week and some of us need an outlet!