TFC 2015 In-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[ag futbol]

The thing is we have never made the playoffs or ever been a contender for anything other than the wooden spoon. I think it's safe to say Vanney & Bez's jobs are pinned on whether we achieve something this year. Also important for us suckers who've been getting beat down for 8 years for loving this team. In our case I understand the point of an experienced Euro defender. Take no chances (or a more calculated one anyway). Getting young, cheap SA defenders, who you hope can contribute right out of the gate during this last half season is risky and if one became a penalty magnet in adjusting to MLS and we missed the playoffs then the scorn on here would be unrivalled. Getting these players yes, for sure. In the offseason and to build with. For this late season push you try to get someone to help now who will have a low learning curve.

Believe there are a few false premises in here:

1). Euro players are more dependable. I'd consider this a point of debate. Certainly nothing to suggest it's a more well proven strategy than going elsewhere. We're looking through the eyes of this club's experience rather than the league as a whole.

2). SA defenders would be cheap, but they'd also be inexperienced. Again, this doesn't have to be the case. Fact is your dollars go further so the player you get can be experienced and cost less than a Euro would. Kendal Watson was relatively cheap, but by no means is inexperienced. Examples like this exist with a greater frequency than otherwise suggested.

But the biggest point here is that you simply can't pursue a euro strategy without making some sort of trade off. It needs to be pointed out that with both perquis and cheyrou we are rolling the dice in terms of durability. This becomes more risky when you consider the price of these players means we have less room to create depth on our roster.

[flamehawk]

Club contract expired 30-06-2015
http://www.transfermarkt.com/roman-t.../spieler/74182

Good find. Sign him up.

I wonder how much he was making there.

[barticusz]

You are kidding I assume.

Of course there have been busts, but look around the league, whole teams have been successfully built around non-DP internationals from South America. Dallas (a couple of different times), RSL, SJ, previous editions of Columbus, Colorado, even Seattle and Vancouver are hugely committed to it.

Show me one MLS team that has ever been really built around European non-DP internationals.

Let's look at it this way shall we. Of those teams you've mentioned how many titles have they won?

Dallas? 0 MLS Cups, 0 Supporter Shields
RSL? 1 MLS Cup, 0 SS
SJ? 2 MLS Cups, 2 SS - The MLS Cup Winning teams had a grand total of 2 SA on their rosters, one in each season. The Supporter sheild winning teams had 2 and 3 SA's each during their winning years.
Colorado? 1 MLS Cup, 0 SS (Only 2 SA on their roster during their winning year, with Omar Cummings being one starter).
Columbus? 1 MLS Cup, 1 Supporter Sheild (This may be your best example and even still this team only had 4 SA's during their heyday winning years of 2008-2009.)
Seattle? 0 MLS Cups, 1 SS (Only 3 starters were SA, one of which is a DP during their Supporter sheild winning season)
Vancouver? 0 MLS Cups, 0 SS

So in reality I hope that you're kidding. SA can surely make your team competitive but they don't lead to trophies or anything else for that matter. I'd rather let my young kids play then to go to SA and hope to find talent in that shady market. Then I stock my team with experienced players from wherever else.

There's no right method of doing things but to suggest that employing the SA model is the way to go for success is a complete joke. The reason so many teams go to those areas is simply because the players are cheap. Plus there's all the high priced yet still cheap DP's that maybe have had spurts but then have sputtered out .. (some of them have done nothing thus far). G. Torres, Urrutti, Rivero, Gilberto, Jaime, Lopez, Mati Garcia, Ramirez, Rochez, Rivas... It's not a gold mine. You may pay more for a European player but to a greater extent I think the scouting of those players is better so you know what you'll expect. SA is still a minefield.. it can work out.. Laba.. but it more frequently blows up in your face.

[Canary10]

Believe there are a few false premises in here:

1). Euro players are more dependable. I'd consider this a point of debate. Certainly nothing to suggest it's a more well proven strategy than going elsewhere. We're looking through the eyes of this club's experience rather than the league as a whole.

2). SA defenders would be cheap, but they'd also be inexperienced. Again, this doesn't have to be the case. Fact is your dollars go further so the player you get can be experienced and cost less than a Euro would. Kendal Watson was relatively cheap, but by no means is inexperienced. Examples like this exist with a greater frequency than otherwise suggested.

But the biggest point here is that you simply can't pursue a euro strategy without making some sort of trade off. It needs to be pointed out that with both perquis and cheyrou we are rolling the dice in terms of durability. This becomes more risky when you consider the price of these players means we have less room to create depth on our roster.

It's spelled "Waston."

[Derko]

Is there a thread dealing with contracts and salary structures elsewhere, just curious

[Auzzy]

Folks, all really interesting posts, about salaries & allocation; about European or SA strategies; etc. But can we skip some of the nastiness? Honestly, most of this stuff isn't so clear to anyone, including the biggest MLS "experts" out on the Internet.

[MightyDM]

Em no they don't. The owner of an MLS team explicitly said the MLSPU numbers weren't accurate and didn't include allocation.
Perquis was on 700k euros at Betis, you really think he tool a half a mil salary cut to come here? (At current exchange rates)

The way I read that was that he was saying that the players union numbers were not the salary cap impact because it didn't include the impact of allocation paying down the salary ie Perquis wouldn't be a 350,000 cap hit. You may be right but the tweet you refer to makes more sense read my way. And I do not believe that Perquis is being paid 700,000 Euros, it's unlikely because that's at least a million U.S. Dollars and a 650,000 allocation spend. Where did we get all that? And the same for Cheyrou? Unlikely that we had well over a million allocation or we would still have Laba. Again, you may be right but you are using evidence that clearly reads the opposite way to support your case - all I am saying is it isn't clear cut based on what you have found so far, and what the others posted ie several players being over the DP limits on other teams - tends to support the view that the players union numbers are the gross numbers.

edit: just saw the tweet from the Portland dude. I'll agree that there is one piece of evidence on your side, but there is lots on the side that the MLS unions numbers are gross, pre allocation too. Again, you may be right but it's sure not as clear as you argue.

[OgtheDim]

Sooooooooo....nothing happening then. Earliest date to get somebody in would be NER game August 1st.

And tomorrow is a travel day so no news on injuries etc.

I hear of an ankle nick to Seba but there's a tweet out today of him driving a golf cart.

[MightyDM]

Club contract expired 30-06-2015
http://www.transfermarkt.com/roman-t.../spieler/74182

he was excellent. What a travesty of a refereeing performance. Any marginal thing called and carded against Panama, including a marginal red, but nothing when Mexico did similar things, including foul the guy in the box who gave up the first pk on the same play. And I agree, this player was excellent, composed, a real leader from the back and would be a fantastic addition if truly out of contract.

[Danny27]

The way I read that was that he was saying that the players union numbers were not the salary cap impact because it didn't include the impact of allocation paying down the salary ie Perquis wouldn't be a 350,000 cap hit. You may be right but the tweet you refer to makes more sense read my way. And I do not believe that Perquis is being paid 700,000 Euros, it's unlikely because that's at least a million U.S. Dollars and a 650,000 allocation spend. Where did we get all that? And the same for Cheyrou? Unlikely that we had well over a million allocation or we would still have Laba. Again, you may be right but you are using evidence that clearly reads the opposite way to support your case - all I am saying is it isn't clear cut based on what you have found so far, and what the others posted ie several players being over the DP limits on other teams - tends to support the view that the players union numbers are the gross numbers.

edit: just saw the tweet from the Portland dude. I'll agree that there is one piece of evidence on your side, but there is lots on the side that the MLS unions numbers are gross, pre allocation too. Again, you may be right but it's sure not as clear as you argue.

Agreed. When you see players listed at 500-700k that aren't DPs then it's very clear that the wages listed are before paying down allocation. They obviously wouldn't have several different methods of listing salaries within the same document.

When someone says "it doesn't show the amount paid down by allocation" people are interpreting that wrong. For example if Perquis is making 375k, not showing the amount paid down means they don't show that TFC paid him down to 300k. Whereas people are interpreting it to mean they're not showing that TFC paid him down from 500k. But as I mentioned, if he was making 500k they would list it like they have with Diskerud and others.

Also saying it's a guide and not fact simply means you can't just read the list, add up everyone's salary and come up with what a team's cap hit is because allocation, transfer fees and other fees arent listed but rather just salaries.

[Ruffian]

Sooooooooo....nothing happening then. Earliest date to get somebody in would be NER game August 1st.

And tomorrow is a travel day so no news on injuries etc.

I hear of an ankle nick to Seba but there's a tweet out today of him driving a golf cart.

When does the transfer window close?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

When does the transfer window close?

6th. we have plenty of time. remember we prob have to move someone or several people out to bring a player in.

[molenshtain]

6th. we have plenty of time. remember we prob have to move someone or several people out to bring a player in.

not anymore after Caldwell.

[OgtheDim]

Well there is also the idea of moving somebody so they are not sitting around and getting grumpy after the new guy gets in.

But in our set up, the only people likely to be grumpy would be forwards and that's not what we are getting in.

[molenshtain]

who's sitting around and getting grumpy?

[portu]

How come Larson, Molinaro and Co haven't jumped on this Kantari shit?!?! I honestly haven't even seen an rt about it and it's one of the more legit rumours out there
as compared to Santacroce and stuff

[Areathrasher]

Steve Fenn ‏@StatHunting
I've always heard that the MLSPU salary release figures are independent of any allocation money usage. Can anyone confirm this?

Matt Montgomery ‏@TheCrossbarRSL
@SoccerStatHunt I can confirm that Garth Lagerwey has said as much, if I recall.

You will notice that those figures are officially over the cap limit. Keep in mind that they do not include allocation money being used to pay down cap hits.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...J8kpDCEhlqG.99

The MLS Players Union website has a disclosure that the figures only include contracts with MLS directly, but not contracts directly with teams or their affiliates, and the figures don't contain any performance bonuses that might be part of the deal, because they might not be earned. The sheet also doesn't take into account how allocation money figures into the contract either, because teams can use allocation money to pay down values. With MLS not releasing any contract terms with their various releases, the information from the Players Union gives you one variable of a complex algebra problem to then figure out the solution for. While you might get close to reality, there are only a handful of people that really know the true numbers.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/timbers/2...layers_un.html

[Ossington Mental Youth]

not anymore after Caldwell.

Depends on what dude wants or if we want more than one

[markie8002000]

How come Larson, Molinaro and Co haven't jumped on this Kantari shit?!?! I honestly haven't even seen an rt about it and it's one of the more legit rumours out there
as compared to Santacroce and stuff

I seen someone ask Larson and he never responded.... Hes being real quiet

[portu]

I seen someone ask Larson and he never responded.... Hes being real quiet

Its just so fucking weird there is usually some kind of comment... Oh and gareth wheeler who basically all but named who we were going to sign hasn't said a word about Kantari this week as well and I've also seen him asked about its

[OgtheDim]

Its weird cause usually if there is somebody the journos have heard of, they ask a source a question and get a response that fills out a bit of twitter space.


They know something - just nobody wants to spill the beans.


Anybody ask Rollins to comment?

[Yohan]

I'm patient bc I can't see bez not getting someone. It might be a short term loan but more likely seeing what free agents are still available at what price. As euro teams fill up their squad, the remaining players are available for cheaper.

I think we might be seeing a signing more closer to mls transfer deadline. We can afford to wait a while longer

[0bl1vious]

If media knew, they would spill the beans - because that's what they get paid to do. They don't get paid to stay silent.

tic tac tac

[CommradePolski]

[MightyDM]

Steve Fenn ‏@StatHunting
I've always heard that the MLSPU salary release figures are independent of any allocation money usage. Can anyone confirm this?

Matt Montgomery ‏@TheCrossbarRSL
@SoccerStatHunt I can confirm that Garth Lagerwey has said as much, if I recall.



http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...J8kpDCEhlqG.99


http://blog.oregonlive.com/timbers/2...layers_un.html

as we suspected, when you read all this it seems to confirm that the figures quoted for Perquis and Cheyrou are the contracts before any allocation pay down - but also likely don't include performance or appearance bonuses, perhaps.

[shorty]

Une nouvelle aventure pour Ahmed Kantari au Toronto FC

Vendredi 24 juillet 2015

Après deux saisons au Racing club de Lens, le joueur cadre et défenseur lensois Ahmed Kantari s’est engagé au Toronto FC. Nous lui souhaitons une bonne continuation sous ses nouvelles couleurs.

[shorty]

^ from the Lens website this morning

[Areathrasher]

Pretty solid confirmation

They tweeted it too

User Actions
Follow

Racing club de LensVerified account‏@rclensofficiel

Bonne continuation à Ahmed #Kantari dans sa nouvelle aventure avec @torontofc http://bit.ly/1HNqrP7 #mercato #rclens

[OgtheDim]

http://www.rclens.fr/infos_2015/07/2...p#ancreContenu

[portu]

Wtf all this and you would have no idea if you didn't go looking for it