Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Rotoomm]

Most certainly.

The Argos season ticket base has dropped to below 3,500. Ottawa RedInks have lost thousands of season ticket holders after year 1.

Winnipeg stadium, due to host this year's Grey Cup, is falling apart two years after opening.

Good news is the toilets all now work in Hamilton. Problem is they were installed on the elevators.

To be fair, the Redblacks had 17000 season ticket holders in year 1 of their franchise, are were fully expecting to have that number drop, especially after a 2-16 record. They figure they'll settle at around 14500 this season.
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/16/...by-ticket-drop

What is happening with the Winnipeg stadium? I don't think any deficiencies of the stadium had too much negative effect on the team operations as the Bombers still posted a healthy $3.9 million profit. And they do still have the pleasure of hosting the 2015 Grey Cup.
http://www.bluebombers.com/article/w...profit-in-2014

i do wonder what the actual numbers are for the number of Argos season ticket holders? Regardless, I would expect that number to get a big boost if/when they get in to BMO. With the success of the other world class cities, in their own right, across the CFL, namely Vancouver Montreal & Calgary, I have a hard time believing that TO is doomed to fail. Just like any franchise in any league, they need an appropriate home. What would TFC's atmosphere and game day experience be if they called the Skydome home?

Regardless, being both an MLS fan and CFL fan, I hope both franchises will succeed when the time comes to share the stadium.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The Argos season ticket base has dropped to below 3,500. Ottawa RedInks have lost thousands of season ticket holders after year 1.

Winnipeg stadium, due to host this year's Grey Cup, is falling apart two years after opening.

Good news is the toilets all now work in Hamilton.

To be fair, the Redblacks had 17000 season ticket holders in year 1 of their franchise, are were fully expecting to have that number drop, especially after a 2-16 record. They figure they'll settle at around 14500 this season.
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/16/...by-ticket-drop

What is happening with the Winnipeg stadium? I don't think any deficiencies of the stadium had too much negative effect on the team operations as the Bombers still posted a healthy $3.9 million profit. And they do still have the pleasure of hosting the 2015 Grey Cup.
http://www.bluebombers.com/article/w...profit-in-2014

i do wonder what the actual numbers are for the number of Argos season ticket holders? Regardless, I would expect that number to get a big boost if/when they get in to BMO. With the success of the other world class cities, in their own right, across the CFL, namely Vancouver Montreal & Calgary, I have a hard time believing that TO is doomed to fail. Just like any franchise in any league, they need an appropriate home. What would TFC's atmosphere and game day experience be if they called the Skydome home?

Regardless, being both an MLS fan and CFL fan, I hope both franchises will succeed when the time comes to share the stadium.

We were talking about the league profiting or losing profits. Norf you clearly call out some losers in Argos and Ottawa, regardless of their excuses, but it doesn't reflect the entire league, though. One team struggles and another bubble team turns it around. We have to to look at the whole.

Ro, norf points out the Argos seasons and you quote him on it and ask what the actual number is? Feel free to correct him if you have other info. otherwise it looks like you're either ignoring him or doubting the validity without backup.

So many people think results will smother the issue of surface quality. It doesn't.

[Mulder]

To be fair, the Redblacks had 17000 season ticket holders in year 1 of their franchise, are were fully expecting to have that number drop, especially after a 2-16 record. They figure they'll settle at around 14500 this season.
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/16/...by-ticket-drop

What is happening with the Winnipeg stadium? I don't think any deficiencies of the stadium had too much negative effect on the team operations as the Bombers still posted a healthy $3.9 million profit. And they do still have the pleasure of hosting the 2015 Grey Cup.
http://www.bluebombers.com/article/w...profit-in-2014

i do wonder what the actual numbers are for the number of Argos season ticket holders? Regardless, I would expect that number to get a big boost if/when they get in to BMO. With the success of the other world class cities, in their own right, across the CFL, namely Vancouver Montreal & Calgary, I have a hard time believing that TO is doomed to fail. Just like any franchise in any league, they need an appropriate home. What would TFC's atmosphere and game day experience be if they called the Skydome home?

Regardless, being both an MLS fan and CFL fan, I hope both franchises will succeed when the time comes to share the stadium.

Pretty much sums up what I was going to say.

Another difference is back in 2012 each team was getting ~1.6m in TV revenue on a 15m per year deal. Last season, each team got about 4 million with the new deal (40m per season). With only $800,000 extra going to the players with the new CBA. So for someone to say that the CFL has gotten in a worse state financially isn't really paying attention to the bigger picture.

The Ticat's are extremely close to profitability, in 2012 there was also a quote from Bob young saying they almost broke even I believe? My memory remembers a radio interview that says they lost an amount total of Tim Hortons for the staff.

Ottawa may post a profit this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't due to start-up costs.

The only caveat I have to that Winnipeg revenue is that it didn't take into account the mortgage payment on the stadium, which was $4.5m, but I believe is scheduled to drop to somewhere around $3.3m.

[Mulder]

Ro, norf points out the Argos seasons and you quote him on it and ask what the actual number is? Feel free to correct him if you have other info. otherwise it looks like you're either ignoring him or doubting the validity without backup.

Argo's were at 4,000 with renewals alone. Norf is merely speculating/making stuff up as he always does.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Argo's were at 4,000 with renewals alone. Norf is merely speculating/making stuff up as he always does.

Thanks for more info Mulder.

I find gauging the true health of the league more than the TV revenue contract but it is something the league will enjoy to turn other aspects around.

I don't really see the point in only shining the league in one light or another. Every league will have teams that struggle that will be offset by others but as a whole it does show where problem areas lie. Ottawa has learned the lesson that new stadiums don't guarantee sellouts. The Als definitely enjoyed a renaissance that has leveled out but ok. The Argos would enjoy a shorter bump in popularity with a move but that's really beside the point here.

[OgtheDim]

CNE board meeting today

Jenny Yuen on the spot for the Sun

Tweets below

Leiweke going to speak now, asks for "any good luck charms, we need them."

Jenny Yuen @SunReporterYuen · 10m 10 minutes ago
"It's complicated, lots of parties involved," he tells the board. "As of today, we haven't been able to do that yet."

Leiweke said they have been doing drawings to revamp the end zones for potential CFL at BMO. Needs $20M to do this.

Leiweke said there is a "potential new ownership group" willing to foot $10M and manage the Argos team. Still negotiating.

Negotiating a minimum number of Grey Cups to be played at BMO.

Leiweke said lots of "pressure" from different interested parties.

"I'm optimistic we will get this done, but we have 10 days or we're going to miss that window," Leiweke said.

$20M would the required to expand field for CFL - $10M from MLSE and needs $10M from this mystery third party. "We have found a formula."

That "formula" is hosting two Grey Cups, Leiweke said.

Clr. Mark Grimes asks how phase 1 of BMO Reno is going. Leiweke said they expect 30,000 people for TFC home opener on May 10.

October - "we need to be in the ground" for CFL if they expect to play in 2016, Grimes said.

[OgtheDim]

That last tweet - somebody point out to Grimes that MLS playoffs can go into December.

[OgtheDim]

Jenny Yuen ‏@SunReporterYuen 7m7 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario Leiweke's deputation over. Clr. Mike Layton said after the fact, he would like to see the Argos at #BMO, just from a fan perspective.

Jenny Yuen ‏@SunReporterYuen 4m4 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
"It's a good match," said Layton. "I don't claim to understand the politics that are going on behind closed doors btwn MLSE & purchasers."

[Mulder]

Thanks for more info Mulder.

I find gauging the true health of the league more than the TV revenue contract but it is something the league will enjoy to turn other aspects around.

I don't really see the point in only shining the league in one light or another. Every league will have teams that struggle that will be offset by others but as a whole it does show where problem areas lie. Ottawa has learned the lesson that new stadiums don't guarantee sellouts. The Als definitely enjoyed a renaissance that has leveled out but ok. The Argos would enjoy a shorter bump in popularity with a move but that's really beside the point here.

We will probably get a better idea when the new commissioner starts on April 29th. There will be an update on the state of the league as there has been in the past, a Grey Cup host for 2016 is also months overdue. Speculation is that this could be tied to an Argos @ BMO deal. Also because John Tory seemed to slip that information a few months back.

There was also rumours in the past that MLSE wanted to host 4 Grey Cups in 10 years at BMO, for Tim Leiweke to come out now and say that formula is 2 is extremely promising for a potential move.

[OgtheDim]

More from Yuen

Grimes on why Argos at BMO Field is a good fit: "It's their home. I'd like to get them back...bring it back outdoors, which I love."

Jenny Yuen @SunReporterYuen · 12m 12 minutes ago
Grimes said he feels the #CFL is looking for a solution as well. "I think they're very anxious in finding a solution," he said.

Jenny Yuen @SunReporterYuen · 11m 11 minutes ago
If new owner(s) strike deal with MLSE to host two Grey Cup games at #BMO: "Having Grey Cup, what happens here...phenomenal for the city."

Grimes: "I asked (Leiweke) to come down because time is ticking, I didn't know it was 10 days, but I was reading between the lines..."

Grimes: "I think there's something coming up in the horizon and I'd love that be announced in the next 10 days."

Funding: Grimes said EP put in its $10M for expansion, province $10M, the fed movie never came through, he said.

Grimes said it's up to new owners to effectively, pull the trigger on the deal. Once that is sorted, the EP board will vote on it.

Grimes: "I don't know who the new owners are, I can maybe guess, but I wouldn't mention it today. I think it's a pretty complicated deal."

Grimes said Argos would play next year at Rogers Centre whilst they get this field ready, if new owners agree to deal.

So, basically the 10 day deadline is so they can incorporate the end zone revamp for Phase 2 of construction instead of...

...potentially costing much more if a deal is struck later. If they're doing construction now, might as well work these new plans in.

What happens if the 10 day deadline passes? Is it demise of Argos? "That's very concerning. I will be exploring my options after." : Grimes.

The city would directly deal with any potential new owners if deadline passes, Grimes said.

[greatwhitenorf]

Argo's were at 4,000 with renewals alone. Norf is merely speculating/making stuff up as he always does.

Wow. THAT many, huh?

I say 3,500 based on gossip from a former Argo employee. You say 4,000 based on what? The smell of Jeff Hunt's jockstrap? Conversations with your dog?

Either way, they're pathetic numbers.

It's like trying to distinguish between whether that brown stuff is cat plop or squirrel poo. It's still shit.

And Toronto taxpayers are expected to shell out millions to pay for this fiasco? It's hilarious when the Argos staunchest on-line advocate is ditch digger in Ottawa.

[ManUtd4ever]

It looks like a deal is imminent. MLSE/TFC brass better hope the product on the field improves by 2017, or there will be little incentive to keep supporters that are opposed to ground sharing from dropping their seasons tickets.

[Areathrasher]

Negotiations within the board over a possible purchase of the Toronto Argonauts has also highlighted how thorny relations are between Bell and Rogers.A source familiar with the matter told TSN that MLSE secured a tentative agreement from the CFL to grant the Argos the right to host three Grey Cups over the next decade if the company completes a purchase of the team from David Braley. But Rogers has little interest in a move that would help to shore up the CFL in Toronto, so it has not wholeheartedly embraced the purchase, the source said.

http://www.tsn.ca/red-sox-official-t...p-job-1.265522

[ManUtd4ever]

http://www.tsn.ca/red-sox-official-t...p-job-1.265522

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The current structure of MLSE is the epitome of a dysfunctional organization.

[greatwhitenorf]

The current structure of MLSE is the epitome of a dysfunctional organization.

I love it. Keeps my job simple and if it protracts this whole Argo fiasco until they can't play at BMO in 2016 - or ever, preferably - that will be just dandy too.

Looking forward to what Jeff Blair has to report soon on the matter. Told me this week that he's staunchly against the Argos moving to BMO Field and plans to keep agitating against it.

[Beach_Red]

More from Yuen

The city would directly deal with any potential new owners if deadline passes, Grimes said.

That seems to be big. If MLSE don't get a deal done the city will rent out the stadium to the Argos new owners?

[greatwhitenorf]

That seems to be big. If MLSE don't get a deal done the city will rent out the stadium to the Argos new owners?

And where does the money come from to pay for the ever-more expensive renovations if that deadline passes? Grimes is smoking his bow ties.

[Beach_Red]

And where does the money come from to pay for the ever-more expensive renovations if that deadline passes? Grimes is smoking his bow ties.

Monster truck shows? Concerts? Imagine the ways the city can rent out the stadium if the relationship with MLSE is strained...

[OgtheDim]

That seems to be big. If MLSE don't get a deal done the city will rent out the stadium to the Argos new owners?

Read that and I thought it was just Grimes thinking off the top of his head - he's not good at that.

The 10 day deadline is for the endzone and dressing room changes to be ready for 2016. Not being ready for 2016 doesn't mean the Argos are in trouble. If its not done for 2016, this only means more money has to be spent and has to be done for 2017.

i.e. This is MLSE putting the squeeze on Braley. Nice job by TL for his bosses, actually. Attempting to force Braley's hand.

[king10]

I love it. Keeps my job simple and if it protracts this whole Argo fiasco until they can't play at BMO in 2016 - or ever, preferably - that will be just dandy too.

Looking forward to what Jeff Blair has to report soon on the matter. Told me this week that he's staunchly against the Argos moving to BMO Field and plans to keep agitating against it.

Thats a double edged sword. Rogers could also say to Bell, no more investing hundreds of millions on players for TFC because we don't own the majority of the broadcasting rights.

Be careful what you wish for in this dysfunctional marriage.

[Redcoe15]

Grimes on why Argos at BMO Field is a good fit: "It's their home. I'd like to get them back...bring it back outdoors, which I love."

Uh, no it hasn't been the Argos' home since they last played at the spot that was Exhibition Stadium in 1988. And the only reason they want to "go back home" is that they're being kicked out of the 'Dome so that the Blue Jays can install real grass by 2018.

Fucking dickhole!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ten Days.


no big deal.

[king10]

Uh, no it hasn't been the Argos' home since they last played at the spot that was Exhibition Stadium in 1988. And the only reason they want to "go back home" is that they're being kicked out of the 'Dome so that the Blue Jays can install real grass by 2018.

Fucking dickhole!

Speaking of the Dome, theScore just reported the orioles were threatening to boycott Tuesdays game because of the way the new turf plays. Puts even more pressure on the Jays to get grass in there.

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/752088

Report: Orioles considered boycotting Tuesday's game over Blue Jays' new turf

[Fort York Redcoat]

Speaking of the Dome, theScore just reported the orioles were threatening to boycott Tuesdays game because of the way the new turf plays. Puts even more pressure on the Jays to get grass in there.

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/752088

Report: Orioles considered boycotting Tuesday's game over Blue Jays' new turf

Good on them, respect the quality of the surface they play on. It's too bad they had to wait since 89 to raise the standard.

[Milanista]

LOL come on that has more to do with the Orioles being pissed at the jays about the hit batters, bautista showing them up and them being pissed their GM wants to join the jays...Orioles and Jays have a legit rivalry now

Good on them, respect the quality of the surface they play on. It's too bad they had to wait since 89 to raise the standard.

[Redcoe15]

Speaking of the Dome, theScore just reported the orioles were threatening to boycott Tuesdays game because of the way the new turf plays. Puts even more pressure on the Jays to get grass in there.

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/752088

Report: Orioles considered boycotting Tuesday's game over Blue Jays' new turf

Reminds me of the Jays' debut season in 1977, when the same Orioles franchise forfeited a game because manager Earl Weaver didn't like the conditions of the tarp used on his team's bullpen mound at Exhibition Stadium.

http://cooperstownersincanada.com/20...ition-stadium/

[Fort York Redcoat]

LOL come on that has more to do with the Orioles being pissed at the jays about the hit batters, bautista showing them up and them being pissed their GM wants to join the jays...Orioles and Jays have a legit rivalry now

Really? You don't think players on both sides of games at Skydome/Roger Centre haven't been moaning about the tattered quilt they've had to play on in the past?

[Waggy]

This stuff is crazy. CFL salary cap is a bit over 5 million per season. The TV deal alone is 4.5 million per team. As long as the team isn't losing money on merch, game days and advertising a CFL team WILL make money. The only way for a CFL team to NOT make money at this point is to be incompetently run. Hellooooooooo Argos.


But like I said pages ago. Of course Rogers doesn't want to help the CFL. It's in direct competition with them. The Yankees didn't seem to have any problems finding a lot of Saturday and Sunday dates for NYCFC http://www.nycfc.com/schedule. If anyone doesn't think Rogers has been doing its best to sabotage the Argos the past decade I don't know what to tell you. Not that the Argos are blameless, their owners cheapness and stupidity is what allowed Rogers to do it. But the Argos with competent management would be fine from a profitability standpoint and a fan interest standpoint.

Which is why if Bell wants the Argos (which they obv do), just partner with Tannenbaum, buy them outside of the MLSE scope and build a stadium for em. It gets bonus "stick it to Rogers" points too

[Petor]

Countdown timer...

http://is.gd/jMVCOV

[Redcoe15]

This stuff is crazy. CFL salary cap is a bit over 5 million per season. The TV deal alone is 4.5 million per team. As long as the team isn't losing money on merch, game days and advertising a CFL team WILL make money. The only way for a CFL team to NOT make money at this point is to be incompetently run. Hellooooooooo Argos.


But like I said pages ago. Of course Rogers doesn't want to help the CFL. It's in direct competition with them. The Yankees didn't seem to have any problems finding a lot of Saturday and Sunday dates for NYCFC http://www.nycfc.com/schedule. If anyone doesn't think Rogers has been doing its best to sabotage the Argos the past decade I don't know what to tell you. Not that the Argos are blameless, their owners cheapness and stupidity is what allowed Rogers to do it. But the Argos with competent management would be fine from a profitability standpoint and a fan interest standpoint.

Which is why if Bell wants the Argos (which they obv do), just partner with Tannenbaum, buy them outside of the MLSE scope and build a stadium for em. It gets bonus "stick it to Rogers" points too

You make it sound like both Tannenbaum and Bell could make the Argos successful. Besides, why would they want to look at building another stadium elsewhere when they could easily move into a retrofitted BMO Field that they both have some stake in?