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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    okay, so just being down at BMO and seeing the south end....the seats are not retractable. I assume this would be the 3rd phase, not slated for this year. How can Larry and the Argos even think about ramming this team in this year?

    I am just thinking out loud here.
    I think they're talking about getting a deal done by this summer for 2017 move in date. Not actually getting the argos in this summer. Also yes the retractable seats would be phase 3 contingent on $30 million of funding. 10 of which (maybe 20 if you believe the province rumours) are secured.

    This is the setup you'd be looking at.

    Parken Stadium in Coppenhagen.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    That's a good story and all but we'll be doing that x 9 with the odd 3 day turnaround. Until I see that I wouldn't hazard a nod but I have a feeling by then it'll be too late.
    Well priority scheduling for TFC has been mentioned many times.

    I may be in the minority but I'm fine with the faded lines we've seen, it doesn't detract from the experience.

    The main issue is playing surface and how much damage CFL will inflict. I'm hopeful that 9-10 games a year wouldn't be too bad.

    Side note: The summer deadline is likely mentioned because that's when construction on phase 2 will start. If this is going to happen, MLSE probably wants to do all the renovation at once.

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    Phase 2 is the roof - Phase 3 would be for the CFL configuration - if it happens. Both would start at the same time


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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Phase 2 is the roof - Phase 3 would be for the CFL configuration - if it happens. Both would start at the same time


    'Phase 3' always had (and still has) the ability to be slotted into phase 1 or 2.

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    Probably too late for phase 1 at this stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    'Phase 3' always had (and still has) the ability to be slotted into phase 1 or 2.
    well to be fair I think its too late to complete the reconfiguration during phase 1 now. Its almost march.

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    So if this combo turf is soooo good, why aren't the Argo's looking at talking the J's into using it and staying at a place that already works for CFL instead of effing up our place? Yes SkyDome is cavernous but so is BC Place and they can do nice things with cables and fabric I see to create better sound and feeling with smaller crowds.
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    Phase 3 is the $10 million item.

    MLSE won't do it until they are certain of its necessity - they don't want to pay for it.

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    By now it's inevitable that the Argos are coming. Too much politics at play, the Dome is kicking them out, and the easiest solution is for them to hit BMO.
    But, unless MLSE buys the team, I don't think they'll be much better off. They'll still be paying rent of some sort, and MLSE will still be operating the stadium, thus likely taking a big cut of revenues related to concessions, parking, etc.

    At the start they may see a bit of an attendance spike, however, many of the obstacles they face in attracting crowds, are still going to be in place. Simply put, there is still too much competition in this city for both corporate dollars, and people's time and entertainment dollar.

    The biggest threat to TFC supporters is priority dates for scheduling, and the quality of the pitch. I think they'll give the hybrid surface a go for a year or two, then go back to a fully artificial stadium. No other CFL team plays on grass at this time. Many MLS teams also are still using artificial surfaces. Its too easy and makes too much financial sense for MLSE.

    If we lose grass, we are going to lose our ability to bring in big time DPs like Bradley in the future. This has to be our top concern about the groundshare going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Phase 3 is the $10 million item.

    MLSE won't do it until they are certain of its necessity - they don't want to pay for it.
    i believe its $30 million. Includes the new argo change rooms as well as retractable stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glaze View Post
    By now it's inevitable that the Argos are coming. Too much politics at play, the Dome is kicking them out, and the easiest solution is for them to hit BMO.
    But, unless MLSE buys the team, I don't think they'll be much better off. They'll still be paying rent of some sort, and MLSE will still be operating the stadium, thus likely taking a big cut of revenues related to concessions, parking, etc.

    At the start they may see a bit of an attendance spike, however, many of the obstacles they face in attracting crowds, are still going to be in place. Simply put, there is still too much competition in this city for both corporate dollars, and people's time and entertainment dollar.

    The biggest threat to TFC supporters is priority dates for scheduling, and the quality of the pitch. I think they'll give the hybrid surface a go for a year or two, then go back to a fully artificial stadium. No other CFL team plays on grass at this time. Many MLS teams also are still using artificial surfaces. Its too easy and makes too much financial sense for MLSE.

    If we lose grass, we are going to lose our ability to bring in big time DPs like Bradley in the future. This has to be our top concern about the groundshare going forward.

    I really dont think mlse will go to turf. The money they save will be far outweighed by the money lost from fans not renewing because they dont want plastic. Mlse isnt dumb. Plus they already sunk so much money into the undersoil heating. And lets not forget the CSA may also have a say since it is the national soccer stadium and they dont want turf either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glaze View Post
    By now it's inevitable that the Argos are coming. Too much politics at play, the Dome is kicking them out, and the easiest solution is for them to hit BMO.
    But, unless MLSE buys the team, I don't think they'll be much better off. They'll still be paying rent of some sort, and MLSE will still be operating the stadium, thus likely taking a big cut of revenues related to concessions, parking, etc.

    At the start they may see a bit of an attendance spike, however, many of the obstacles they face in attracting crowds, are still going to be in place. Simply put, there is still too much competition in this city for both corporate dollars, and people's time and entertainment dollar.

    The biggest threat to TFC supporters is priority dates for scheduling, and the quality of the pitch. I think they'll give the hybrid surface a go for a year or two, then go back to a fully artificial stadium. No other CFL team plays on grass at this time. Many MLS teams also are still using artificial surfaces. Its too easy and makes too much financial sense for MLSE.

    If we lose grass, we are going to lose our ability to bring in big time DPs like Bradley in the future. This has to be our top concern about the groundshare going forward.
    Kurt Larson source within TFC/MLSE said they're not going back to fake turf recently. MLSE and City of Toronto isn't stupid go back to fake turf unless they want to lose money and international soccer events (national team games, Euro club friendlies, Gold Cup etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by king10 View Post

    This is the setup you'd be looking at.

    Parken Stadium in Coppenhagen.



    This setup has a different use, though. This park utilizes the high school benches to have concerts. Just so we're not looking at the grass for our own example of use.
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    If TFC goes back to turf, you might find the supporters sections all but abandoned. Not sure if people are really willing to take those steps backwards, especially since it would result in be a direct lie from management in regards to TFC being the primary importance for the grounds, ie, no full artifical surface.

    The argos best best is to sink some money into York stadium in partnership with the univeristy, like Montreal has. The Argos only need 15 to 20 k seats, if they start selling out every game they could then expand as needed.

    Converting the national soccer stadium, and ruining a great thing for a team that back out when they had the chance before is beyond stupid. And could result in the death of TFC in the long term if things like the pitch become an issue. Because once the conversions done, the argos are never leaving. TFC would either have to leave and build a new stadium or suffer never being able to sign any quality players again.

    Of course CFL fans want this, they want the argos to be relevant. The bigger question is will the argos fair weather fans actually support them at bmo, the same site they abandoned because they were fair weather fans in the first place, I have my doubts. They didn't want to play at the ex before, can't see why they will want to go and support it at BMO this time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    Well priority scheduling for TFC has been mentioned many times.

    I may be in the minority but I'm fine with the faded lines we've seen, it doesn't detract from the experience.

    The main issue is playing surface and how much damage CFL will inflict. I'm hopeful that 9-10 games a year wouldn't be too bad.

    Side note: The summer deadline is likely mentioned because that's when construction on phase 2 will start. If this is going to happen, MLSE probably wants to do all the renovation at once.
    Again with the not "too bad".

    Can someone layout how priority scheduling could cure the issue of scheduling?

    The MLS schedule is released
    The Vcup schedule is released
    The CFL schedule is released

    There are friendlies and Internationals scheduled in there as well. It sounds pretty challenging to prevent at least a couple 3 day turnarounds in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    So if this combo turf is soooo good, why aren't the Argo's looking at talking the J's into using it and staying at a place that already works for CFL instead of effing up our place? Yes SkyDome is cavernous but so is BC Place and they can do nice things with cables and fabric I see to create better sound and feeling with smaller crowds.
    Because the Jays are done with them. And anything but real grass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    This setup has a different use, though. This park utilizes the high school benches to have concerts. Just so we're not looking at the grass for our own example of use.
    I know it has a different use. Of course no cfl football is played in denmark. I just mean the endzone stands would retract like that to allow room for cfl endzones.

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    There have been lots of problems with the pitch at Wembely. Here is a recent article about the NFL game there prior to an England qualifier.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...ed-nfl-4631347

    Google will turn up a lot of other articles on this.

    To be fair though - other articles point to the heavy overuse of Wembley (it's used tons) as the main issue. That said - the article I read that said this cited the FA as the source of this, and the FA makes $$$ of the NFL friendlies. Make of that what you will ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    So if this combo turf is soooo good, why aren't the Argo's looking at talking the J's into using it and staying at a place that already works for CFL instead of effing up our place? Yes SkyDome is cavernous but so is BC Place and they can do nice things with cables and fabric I see to create better sound and feeling with smaller crowds.
    They don't care about us. I'm not an Argos fan and don't want them in BMO, but I can certainly see how having there games at a reconfigured BMO would be a better experience (for them and their fans) the the Dome

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    It's pretty much the same though - it retracts to allow a stage to be placed there. BMO would retract to unveil the endzones. And they are individual seats - not bench.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    Well priority scheduling for TFC has been mentioned many times.

    I may be in the minority but I'm fine with the faded lines we've seen, it doesn't detract from the experience.

    The main issue is playing surface and how much damage CFL will inflict. I'm hopeful that 9-10 games a year wouldn't be too bad.

    Side note: The summer deadline is likely mentioned because that's when construction on phase 2 will start. If this is going to happen, MLSE probably wants to do all the renovation at once.
    Here's what worries me now. They say priority scheduling now. But the Argos draw similar numbers we do (I believe) and their TV numbers blow ours away. I wonder how long it will take for those priorities to flip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glaze View Post
    By now it's inevitable that the Argos are coming. Too much politics at play, the Dome is kicking them out, and the easiest solution is for them to hit BMO.
    But, unless MLSE buys the team, I don't think they'll be much better off. They'll still be paying rent of some sort, and MLSE will still be operating the stadium, thus likely taking a big cut of revenues related to concessions, parking, etc.

    At the start they may see a bit of an attendance spike, however, many of the obstacles they face in attracting crowds, are still going to be in place. Simply put, there is still too much competition in this city for both corporate dollars, and people's time and entertainment dollar.
    One of reasons I hear from Argos fans is that the 'intimate' atmosphere of BMO Field is going to boost attendance like what happened to Alouettes. Argos is averaging 15-18k right now? BMO Field is going to be 30k. Just how many people believe Argos are going to get a boost of 12-15k to sell out BMO Field?

    And just how 'welcoming' will Argos games feel playing at a stadium covered in red instead of Argos blue. The little things like presentation is part of game day experience. If I was an Argos fan, I'd still feel like an outsider at BMO Field. (unless Argos plan on rebranding to a red colour)

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Here's what worries me now. They say priority scheduling now. But the Argos draw similar numbers we do (I believe) and their TV numbers blow ours away. I wonder how long it will take for those priorities to flip.
    Its written into the mlse lease agreement that tfc gets priority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kshep View Post
    If TFC goes back to turf, you might find the supporters sections all but abandoned. Not sure if people are really willing to take those steps backwards, especially since it would result in be a direct lie from management in regards to TFC being the primary importance for the grounds, ie, no full artifical surface.

    The argos best best is to sink some money into York stadium in partnership with the univeristy, like Montreal has. The Argos only need 15 to 20 k seats, if they start selling out every game they could then expand as needed.

    Converting the national soccer stadium, and ruining a great thing for a team that back out when they had the chance before is beyond stupid. And could result in the death of TFC in the long term if things like the pitch become an issue. Because once the conversions done, the argos are never leaving. TFC would either have to leave and build a new stadium or suffer never being able to sign any quality players again.

    Of course CFL fans want this, they want the argos to be relevant. The bigger question is will the argos fair weather fans actually support them at bmo, the same site they abandoned because they were fair weather fans in the first place, I have my doubts. They didn't want to play at the ex before, can't see why they will want to go and support it at BMO this time around.


    Last time the Argos talked with York it fell through. I don't know if it was about the money they didn't have or the track issue again. Beggars can be choosers in this case.
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    With the Paint issue, Seattle has said the only time it is an issue is if there isn't enough turn around, if there is a Seahawks game on Thursday and a Sounders game Saturday it is tough for the ground staff to do .

    What has been said is that an Argo's game will never be scheduled before a MLS game. So the Argos would never play on Tuesday with TFC playing on Wednesday, but TFC might play on Saturday and the Argos on Tuesday. If TFC has a Saturday and Wednesday game then the Argos are on the Road.


    Seattle has been better at making sure that dates don't connect like that again.


    TFC can have 24-26 home games during a season (with Friendlies) So the Argo's would have to figure it out. Water base paint isn't enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    One of reasons I hear from Argos fans is that the 'intimate' atmosphere of BMO Field is going to boost attendance like what happened to Alouettes. Argos is averaging 15-18k right now? BMO Field is going to be 30k. Just how many people believe Argos are going to get a boost of 12-15k to sell out BMO Field?

    And just how 'welcoming' will Argos games feel playing at a stadium covered in red instead of Argos blue. The little things like presentation is part of game day experience. If I was an Argos fan, I'd still feel like an outsider at BMO Field. (unless Argos plan on rebranding to a red colour)
    cfl capacity will be 25k. There will be no endzone seats. 25k is in line with all other east cfl stadiums.

    Also cfl isnt like soccer. They dont care as much about the colour of the seats. For example prior to renos bc played in front of blue seats. Edmonton played in front of red seats. None of which were their primary colours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Kurt Larson source within TFC/MLSE said they're not going back to fake turf recently. MLSE and City of Toronto isn't stupid go back to fake turf unless they want to lose money and international soccer events (national team games, Euro club friendlies, Gold Cup etc.).
    Well maybe Kurt's source within TFC/MLSE is the same guy who promised us playoffs in 2014. "Mark it down, write it down, film it" yada yada yada. If the hybrid turf doesn't work out with CFL in the house, or MLSE is sick of losing money on TFC due to over-priced DPs and having to replace the expensive hybrid turf too often, then they will do whatever the hell they thinks works at that time. Maybe they will put in plastic turf, and "improve the experience" by adding cheerleaders for TFC games, more corporate boxes, etc. etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Well maybe Kurt's source within TFC/MLSE is the same guy who promised us playoffs in 2014. "Mark it down, write it down, film it" yada yada yada. If the hybrid turf doesn't work out with CFL in the house, or MLSE is sick of losing money on TFC due to over-priced DPs and having to replace the expensive hybrid turf too often, then they will do whatever the hell they thinks works at that time. Maybe they will put in plastic turf, and "improve the experience" by adding cheerleaders for TFC games, more corporate boxes, etc. etc.

    Then i think the problems would be larger than just the argos at bmo. The problem would be we need new owners. MLSE isnt dumb though, dont think it would ever come to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    So if this combo turf is soooo good, why aren't the Argo's looking at talking the J's into using it and staying at a place that already works for CFL instead of effing up our place? Yes SkyDome is cavernous but so is BC Place and they can do nice things with cables and fabric I see to create better sound and feeling with smaller crowds.
    Well its due to Montreal moving into a more intimate stadium and getting better atmosphere and a little to do with the piching mound. Right now its floated out and boarded down for flat configuration, but for baseball its goes into a real particular position and height. In a grass world that thing would be fixed there. I am sure there is a solution but would the Jays want to examine those costs given the tennant and the payout they get from having them there?

    I guess this is where we get the inserted lecture / point that the Argos are old and that somehow means they are owed a place at a stadium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Well maybe Kurt's source within TFC/MLSE is the same guy who promised us playoffs in 2014. "Mark it down, write it down, film it" yada yada yada. If the hybrid turf doesn't work out with CFL in the house, or MLSE is sick of losing money on TFC due to over-priced DPs and having to replace the expensive hybrid turf too often, then they will do whatever the hell they thinks works at that time. Maybe they will put in plastic turf, and "improve the experience" by adding cheerleaders for TFC games, more corporate boxes, etc. etc.
    Problem is that you not factoring in other events (international soccer) that they're trying to attract. Going to fake turf will be kiss of death for BMO field. They will lose a lot of potential revenue that doesn't include TFC (who before signing big on DP's were making money for MLSE and City of Toronto). Point is: if soccer gets hurt from fake turf, then BMO field no longer will become money making venue for MLSE and City of Toronto. Given how much money MLSE is currently invest into BMO field, I highly doubt they will mess it up by going back to fake turf.

 

 

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