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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    You clearly misunderstand the concept of being a caretaker for a century old institution.
    Institutional importance is vastly over rated by those of us who have an interest in that institution being maintained, especially in as large a city as Toronto. Keeping something going because it has existed before doesn't really work in a city where the majority of us did not grow up here.

    If MLG can become a Loblaws due to corporate positioning, the Argos can go away too if the real power brokers behind the CFL (Bell/TSN) care to make that decision.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I'm being pedantic tbh. Not saying it's acceptable either.

    Given there is already a CFL/MLS groundshare in existence. Any talk of markings/paint etc should revolve around that and not the Sounders or Revs imo.
    I'm all for accuracy.

    GM Place uses Polytan LigaTurf 240RS+
    BMO Field is in discussion with Desso GrassMaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Is that it? Did you want to define it for us or just retort?
    Your the one who decided to poke fun at Braley for being a 'caretaker' for 4 years. I pointed out another CFL owner who's perfectly happy at being a caretaker.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Mic...137/story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    Yes, like Houston.

    Could be a real boon to improving off side calls.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    But it would be a dog run when the most important games take place towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

    What about when TFC once again start playing CONCACAF Champions League games in mid-week from August on? We've had some really good games against top Mexican sides with technical level of play not often seen in MLS games. The ball's on the deck and the passing and movement has been a cut above. Best of all, our players have routinely raised their games to compete with superior talent.

    We could also see CFL games impair the quality of play if our national teams choose to play at BMO or when top international sides come in for friendlies.
    Towards this line of discussion the point is not (to me) whether it will be so bad

    but

    If it doesn't have to happen why do this when it will only make things worse?

    I quoted you gwn because by IB's POV one could say there are other teams in the CCL that have shambolic fields at that time (all the time, really).

    To repeat whats above - why would we want to see an inferior product?
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    Hate to be the one to say it cause i don't think the argos should be here, but that Vancouver shot doesn't look that bad to me. We get close to that, I could live with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    Your the one who decided to poke fun at Braley for being a 'caretaker' for 4 years. I pointed out another CFL owner who's perfectly happy at being a caretaker.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Mic...137/story.html
    Me? Are you telling me that having caretaker owners doesn't concern yourself or any CFL fans??? If no you may want to explain it to almost every other sports fan as well as myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    Your the one who decided to poke fun at Braley for being a 'caretaker' for 4 years. I pointed out another CFL owner who's perfectly happy at being a caretaker.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Mic...137/story.html
    All I get from this back and forth is that the Argos are old and the CFL has a lot of caretaker owners - probably not a good sign.

    As for the turf and lines, I really want to see apples to apples and understand what damage can be done or shown after a wet September / October on this hybrid surface. Seeing how BMO field doesn't have a hybrid surface yet - what kind of time does it take to install one and have it ready to play on?

    I fall back to the familiar point that I wish the Argos well but I would like them to have their own facility. The only sport that loses if this goes sideways is Soccer.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Califax View Post
    Hate to be the one to say it cause i don't think the argos should be here, but that Vancouver shot doesn't look that bad to me. We get close to that, I could live with it.
    Ok. I'm looking for you March 7 in the pub the first ball that goes awry because of their field turf...

    And remember we'd be dealing with Desso.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Califax View Post
    Hate to be the one to say it cause i don't think the argos should be here, but that Vancouver shot doesn't look that bad to me. We get close to that, I could live with it.
    I agree, but that is pure plastic.

    We are talking about the hybrid stuff, so the ground can get torn up when lets say a 300 lb dude is digging in for tackles. The elements can be at play along with the stress on the surface. If lets say the Argos play on a sloppy weather weekend, is the pitch going to be ready for a CCL game on the following Wednesday night?
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don't get it. "Braley meeting with Tanenbaum" isn't a news item, that's a meeting between a guy with no money, and a guy with no authority.

    I don't see Rogers agreeing to anything that's good for TSN/Bell, so this has to be imposed on MLSE (ie it won't be done with their consent).

    Which means there has to be public money to make it happen. Which strikes me as unlikely.
    This is true, but I am sure there's something going on background (btw: Rogers and Bell) to get this done unless Larry T is going solo and buy Argos with his own money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Me? Are you telling me that having caretaker owners doesn't concern yourself or any CFL fans??? If no you may want to explain it to almost every other sports fan as well as myself.
    Bob Young bought the Ticats because his brother was a big Ticats fans and passed away. He's "Caretaking" the team in his memory. I fail to see how that's a bad thing. (you obviously do)

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    Let's be clear about Vancouver's situation. The Whitecaps are only playing in the dome in the short term. They have plans to build a new stadium of their own near Gastown and had to play political football in order to get that situation approved one day.

    When they refurbished BC Place, it was made clear to them that their stadium project would never get approval unless they agreed to play a few years in the dome to help pay off - or help justify - the costs to re-do the place. Greg Kerfoot's group still harbour ambitions of their own ground and agreed to hold their collective nose for a few years. No one with the Whitecaps is happy playing on plastic.

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    Wembley - mid November 6 days after the Jags played the Cowboys - on a Desso Grassmaster pitch - this is as close as we will know


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    All I get from this back and forth is that the Argos are old and the CFL has a lot of caretaker owners - probably not a good sign.

    As for the turf and lines, I really want to see apples to apples and understand what damage can be done or shown after a wet September / October on this hybrid surface. Seeing how BMO field doesn't have a hybrid surface yet - what kind of time does it take to install one and have it ready to play on?

    I fall back to the familiar point that I wish the Argos well but I would like them to have their own facility. The only sport that loses if this goes sideways is Soccer.
    Here you go. A fookin' midden, mate.


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    Just so we can see what this product is doing elsewhere here is a list of those who use the Desso

    http://www.dessosports.com/sports/football/football-projects/wembley-stadium-uk


    Almaty Central Stadium, Kazakhstan
    Arena de Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Arsenal FC Emirates Stadium, UK
    Arsenal FC training academy, UK
    AS Monaco FC Training Centre, France
    Aston Villa, UK
    AZ Alkmaar, the Netherlands
    Burnley FC Turf Moor Stadium, UK
    Cardiff City Stadium, UK
    Donbass Arena, Ukraine
    Feyenoord, the Netherlands
    Grêmio, Brazil
    Huddersfield Town & Giants, UK
    Leigh Sports Village, UK
    Liverpool FC, UK
    Manchester City, UK
    Mbombela Stadium, South Africa
    Metalist Stadium, Ukraine
    Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, South Africa
    Ocean Stadium, France
    Panthessaliko Stadium, Greece
    Peter Mokaba Stadium, South Africa
    Royal Léopold Uccle FC, Belgium
    RSC Anderlecht, Belgium
    San Siro Stadium, Italy
    Santos FC, Brazil
    Singapore Sports Hub
    St. George's Park, UK
    Stade de la Beaujoire, France
    Swansea FC, UK
    Tottenham Hotspur WHL Stadium, UK
    VfL Wolfsburg, Germany
    Watford FC, UK
    Wembley Stadium, UK

    Not saying any of these places have our exact travails when it comes to groundshare but I wanted to at least put out there that it can be a good product for something. I just don't believe in it for the proposed use. Once we downgrade we're not upgrading until any other tenant is gone. That is a shame.
    Canada Women vs Brazil at BMO June 4th
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
    Yes, they're full time at downsview now. In partnership with MLSE.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/..._facility.html

    While terms of the practice facility agreement weren’t disclosed, Rudge acknowledged it was a multi-year deal, and that the Argos would be paying rent to MLSE.

    The team will also be using a privately run fitness facility at Downsview Park. The fitness facility is owned by another company, but is close to the Argos’ new practice facility, Rudge said. Argo coaches will also have offices in Toronto FC’s current training facility.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/09...some-stability
    Last edited by king10; 02-23-2015 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
    Yes - they moved into their new facility at Downsview last September


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    Bob Young bought the Ticats because his brother was a big Ticats fans and passed away. He's "Caretaking" the team in his memory. I fail to see how that's a bad thing. (you obviously do)
    I have a problem with you referring those two positions/situations as equal.

    One is actively trying to rid himself of ownership, the other using it as a heartwarming term. Unless he's actively or passively looking to sell the team then the two are very different definitions. I don't see why you'd equate the two.
    Canada Women vs Brazil at BMO June 4th
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Ok. I'm looking for you March 7 in the pub the first ball that goes awry because of their field turf...

    And remember we'd be dealing with Desso.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    I agree, but that is pure plastic.

    We are talking about the hybrid stuff, so the ground can get torn up when lets say a 300 lb dude is digging in for tackles. The elements can be at play along with the stress on the surface. If lets say the Argos play on a sloppy weather weekend, is the pitch going to be ready for a CCL game on the following Wednesday night?
    Yeah I know. Maybe i'm still wishfully thinking at this point.

    Some of these Wembley videos ive been watching are great and I don't think all the lines have to go, but as you rightfully point out it's not the lack of innovation that makes this seemingly not viable, it's the unpredictability of weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Wembley - mid November 6 days after the Jags played the Cowboys - on a Desso Grassmaster pitch - this is as close as we will know

    That doesn't look horrible.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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    Quote Originally Posted by king10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Yes - they moved into their new facility at Downsview last September


    Thanks k and G!
    Canada Women vs Brazil at BMO June 4th
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Institutional importance is vastly over rated by those of us who have an interest in that institution being maintained, especially in as large a city as Toronto. Keeping something going because it has existed before doesn't really work in a city where the majority of us did not grow up here.

    If MLG can become a Loblaws due to corporate positioning, the Argos can go away too if the real power brokers behind the CFL (Bell/TSN) care to make that decision.
    Yeah, I think you're right. Bell are certainly being cautious and taking their time to make the decision but ultimately it's up to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Wembley - mid November 6 days after the Jags played the Cowboys - on a Desso Grassmaster pitch - this is as close as we will know

    That's a good story and all but we'll be doing that x 9 with the odd 3 day turnaround. Until I see that I wouldn't hazard a nod but I have a feeling by then it'll be too late.
    Canada Women vs Brazil at BMO June 4th
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    I believe London had a lot of rain in the weeks leading up to the NFL and England game (and given it’s London - it must have been a lot of rain)

    The big mess in the middle is where the NFL logo was painted. There would be no logos on the Argos field – just the lines – logos would be added digitally by TSN.

    And the endzones would be covered by the retractable seating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Just so we can see what this product is doing elsewhere here is a list of those who use the Desso

    http://www.dessosports.com/sports/football/football-projects/wembley-stadium-uk


    Almaty Central Stadium, Kazakhstan
    Arena de Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Arsenal FC Emirates Stadium, UK
    Arsenal FC training academy, UK
    AS Monaco FC Training Centre, France
    Aston Villa, UK
    AZ Alkmaar, the Netherlands
    Burnley FC Turf Moor Stadium, UK
    Cardiff City Stadium, UK
    Donbass Arena, Ukraine
    Feyenoord, the Netherlands
    Grêmio, Brazil
    Huddersfield Town & Giants, UK
    Leigh Sports Village, UK
    Liverpool FC, UK
    Manchester City, UK
    Mbombela Stadium, South Africa
    Metalist Stadium, Ukraine
    Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, South Africa
    Ocean Stadium, France
    Panthessaliko Stadium, Greece
    Peter Mokaba Stadium, South Africa
    Royal Léopold Uccle FC, Belgium
    RSC Anderlecht, Belgium
    San Siro Stadium, Italy
    Santos FC, Brazil
    Singapore Sports Hub
    St. George's Park, UK
    Stade de la Beaujoire, France
    Swansea FC, UK
    Tottenham Hotspur WHL Stadium, UK
    VfL Wolfsburg, Germany
    Watford FC, UK
    Wembley Stadium, UK

    Not saying any of these places have our exact travails when it comes to groundshare but I wanted to at least put out there that it can be a good product for something. I just don't believe in it for the proposed use. Once we downgrade we're not upgrading until any other tenant is gone. That is a shame.
    Swansea ground shares with its rugby team on desso grass master. Cardiff City did from 2009 to 2012 until the rugby team left when the stadium was too large. Those are probably 2 decent examples to compare to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    I believe London had a lot of rain in the weeks leading up to the NFL and England game (and given it’s London - it must have been a lot of rain)

    The big mess in the middle is where the NFL logo was painted. There would be no logos on the Argos field – just the lines – logos would be added digitally by TSN.

    And the endzones would be covered by the retractable seating.
    okay, so just being down at BMO and seeing the south end....the seats are not retractable. I assume this would be the 3rd phase, not slated for this year. How can Larry and the Argos even think about ramming this team in this year?

    I am just thinking out loud here.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

    Twitter: @RPBPhil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    okay, so just being down at BMO and seeing the south end....the seats are not retractable. I assume this would be the 3rd phase, not slated for this year. How can Larry and the Argos even think about ramming this team in this year?

    I am just thinking out loud here.
    They aren't. Some journo got confused when Braley said a lease could be agreed by the summer thinking he meant the Argos would be in BMO by the summer and caused all sorts of confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    They aren't. Some journo got confused when Braley said a lease could be agreed by the summer thinking he meant the Argos would be in BMO by the summer and caused all sorts of confusion.
    My bad. I saw it on twitter and just shook my head. Then this virus took over and I woke up three days later. Thanks for the clarification
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

    Twitter: @RPBPhil

 

 

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