Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Red CB Toronto]

It is interesting Kurt because prior to your arrival at the Sun, I would say in ways TFC coverage in ways was better at the Star. I don't know did you cross paths with Dan Girard on the beat. He was pretty much a do it all general assignment guy off the desk who was really dedicated and made it his own. I believe if someone is interested and really wants to push it a good editor will let them run with it. On the other hand if they either just throw anyone into it and have little interest in it, it will suffer and it will show. I don't really know much Laura Armstrong, how often is out at training etc? Its nothing against her if the editor is not sending her out, it more reflective of the Star in general.

I will say TFC coverage since your arrival is night and day and it really shows what having someone with knowledge will do. Plus having a die-hard sports guys in Bill Pierce as an editor does not hurt.

Thanks for listening.

In defence of Postmedia, we do have the biggest soccer columnists in each city: Larson at the Sun; Weber at the Vancouver Province; Cowan at the Montreal Gazette. We all travel for soccer. We all cover it 4-5 times a week and it runs in print. We also were the only organization to send a reporter to the Euros for the entire tournament. Personally, I think the Star deserves far more scrutiny.

The National Post doesn't run MLS because it's not considered a "national league". The sports section is also extremely small. I hear what you're saying, though. Will be interested to see if they run our MLS Playoff coverage.

Happy to give you any other observations if you have questions...

[mistercorporate]

You need to get some of those guys to BMO for Saturday's game Kurt. It's going to be loud and rocking. They won't help but be pulled into it.

Good point, every time i give mytix out to people who dont know much about soccer they have a boss time. The chicks instagram and snapchat the shit out of it.

[Yohan]

My request to everyone is to click and read the articles on TFC. Generate hits, so that editors take notice and maybe devout more time and resources into reporting TFC. Let's support the reporters that works hard to bring news about our team.

[KurtLarSUN]

It is interesting Kurt because prior to your arrival at the Sun, I would say in ways TFC coverage in ways was better at the Star. I don't know did you cross paths with Dan Girard on the beat. He was pretty much a do it all general assignment guy off the desk who was really dedicated and made it his own. I believe if someone is interested and really wants to push it a good editor will let them run with it. On the other hand if they either just throw anyone into it and have little interest in it, it will suffer and it will show. I don't really know much Laura Armstrong, how often is out at training etc? Its nothing against her if the editor is not sending her out, it more reflective of the Star in general.

I will say TFC coverage since your arrival is night and day and it really shows what having someone with knowledge will do. Plus having a die-hard sports guys in Bill Pierce as an editor does not hurt.

Pierce is the reason all of this is possible. My work rate is secondary to having someone who believes in covering local sports. Appreciate that, though.

In terms of the Star, the section is much smaller. They have a number of "big" columnists who, like you said, don't want to cover TFC.

I'm close with Laura. She loves the sport. She'd be there most days if her desk allowed her.

And, yes, Dan Girard was excellent.

[Richard]

It is interesting Kurt because prior to your arrival at the Sun, I would say in ways TFC coverage in ways was better at the Star. I don't know did you cross paths with Dan Girard on the beat. He was pretty much a do it all general assignment guy off the desk who was really dedicated and made it his own. I believe if someone is interested and really wants to push it a good editor will let them run with it. On the other hand if they either just throw anyone into it and have little interest in it, it will suffer and it will show. I don't really know much Laura Armstrong, how often is out at training etc? Its nothing against her if the editor is not sending her out, it more reflective of the Star in general.

I will say TFC coverage since your arrival is night and day and it really shows what having someone with knowledge will do. Plus having a die-hard sports guys in Bill Pierce as an editor does not hurt.

Laura Armstrong does a lot of TFC related tweeting, but she does cover other sports too.

[OgtheDim]

...

In terms of the Star, the section is much smaller. They have a number of "big" columnists who, like you said, don't want to cover TFC.
....

To be fair Cathal Kelly in his own way did. The current ones, both old and young, have no interest. As I've said before, moral code issues.

[Initial B]

Laura has been getting the Star's Raptor scribe, Doug Smith, interested in soccer. Right now he's mostly interested in Premier League, but he's also mentioned TFC a couple of times in his blogs. They even do a webcast together. We could probably float them this question for their program.

[reggie]

i am happy with the coverage THE TFC get(dont you love it when the dinosaurs call them THE TFC OR JUS FC.lol.i get all the all the info i want from kurt,john,neil.and the fine people on this site.i dont listen or watch the fan or tsn1050 other then tfc or epl.i avoid the dinosaurs.

[Borga]

Last week I happened to notice when visiting tsn.ca that 4 out of their 8 top headlines were CFL-related stories. There is no reason that a story about some Edmonton Eskimos lineman being hurt deserves to be a top headline unless you're financially invested in the CFL, and that's unfortunately at the root of all this.

[greatwhitenorf]

With idle moments waiting for car repairs, took a stroll into The Troubled Blue Room over at the argo fan forum. Found this. Heard the voice of desperation:

August 31st - B.C. @ Toronto

EXCLUSIVE MEMBER TICKET OFFER
*
Invite up to four (4) of your friends and family and experience an Argos game on us!
*
As an Argos All Access member, we’d like to say thanks with this EXCLUSIVE TICKET OFFER so your friends and family can experience the Argos play at home, on Wednesday August 31st at 7:30 p.m. when the Argos battle the Lions at BMO Field. You’ll also receive FREE ADMISSION to the CNE by showing your game tickets! To take advantage of this offer, visit argosallaccess.ca*now to select how many tickets you would like, either two (2) or four (4). Once you’ve claimed this offer, we will send you an email on Monday August 29th with a link to select your seats. You have until Sunday, August 28th at 11:59 p.m. to claim this offer. *Tickets are available on a first come, first serve basis. Subjected to availability.

[Borga]

My goodness, that's sad. Will they up it to 8 free tickets each later on this week?

[Pookie]

With idle moments waiting for car repairs, took a stroll into The Troubled Blue Room over at the argo fan forum. Found this. Heard the voice of desperation:

August 31st - B.C. @ Toronto

EXCLUSIVE MEMBER TICKET OFFER
*
Invite up to four (4) of your friends and family and experience an Argos game on us!
*
As an Argos All Access member, we’d like to say thanks with this EXCLUSIVE TICKET OFFER so your friends and family can experience the Argos play at home, on Wednesday August 31st at 7:30 p.m. when the Argos battle the Lions at BMO Field. You’ll also receive FREE ADMISSION to the CNE by showing your game tickets! To take advantage of this offer, visit argosallaccess.ca*now to select how many tickets you would like, either two (2) or four (4). Once you’ve claimed this offer, we will send you an email on Monday August 29th with a link to select your seats. You have until Sunday, August 28th at 11:59 p.m. to claim this offer. *Tickets are available on a first come, first serve basis. Subjected to availability.

Well I guess they don't have as many "diehard" football supporters as we found out we did in that rush that translated into 1000's of season tickets in the days AFTER David Beckham signed with the league.

The stadium isn't full for the Argos. Got it.

That they want to find ways to bring new fans to the game after decades of marketing neglect is surprising, how?

[Ultra & Proud]

My goodness, that's sad. Will they up it to 8 free tickets each later on this week?

What will be sad is when the place is still half empty after offering up a "buy one, get four free" deal.

[Richard]

What will be sad is when the place is still half empty after offering up a "buy one, get four free" deal.

Nah it will be like the Arizona Coyotes where you buy a ticket and get free wine/booze with your purchase, god knows you need to liquored up to enjoy that funeral they pass off as entertainment.

[mistercorporate]

Free XXXL overpants and a dentist appointment might do the trick. Guaranteed sellout with hardcore CFL fans.

[Pookie]

I enjoy the sarcasm in this thread. Love you guys.

On the serious front, the plan they are rolling out is the blueprint for building a franchise. Get people in the door and hopefully convert them.

TFC has also employed "wag jag" deals and Groupons, free admission to the ex, bulk deals on tickets (our local soccer club had 20 seats season seats back in the day before Beckham signed) and used "atmosphere" as the sell. We have been embarrassingly empty before. From STHs that didn't go to the fan base turning a snobby nose up at concacaf games.

MLSE's first year goal (pre Beckham) was 7,000 seats. Pent up demand from former Blizzard/Lynx fans just wasn't enough I guess.

Beckham came, they quickly bundled access to the LA game with cheap season seats and sold 1,000 in the first hour (one every 40-50 seconds I remember hearing). When they ran out of those bundles they bundled access to Beckham with the Marlies.

There probably should be a statue to Becks somewhere in the Board room. Who knows where we would be without his fans being the motivation to "try" TFC.

[OgtheDim]

Although I agree this is all part of the plan B to rebuild the base, I must say I do't recall TFC ever offering 4 free tickets.

And don't forget this is from an ownership group who specifically said earlier in the season they would not reduce ticket prices and would not give out freebies. In essence, by giving away 4 tickets to a SSH, they are giving them 4/9th of the value of their season seat. If this was TFC doing this, we would be saying somebody in that Head Office should be fired for incompetence. I would be very surprised if somebody hasn't been let go already for not making SS and game day ticket targets. This is a results based business both on and off the field.

I've said before I hope they pull it around and its going to take 5 years to do so. But the initial "build it and they will come" approach has not worked and they are being forced to pretty desperate stuff now.

[Initial B]

i am happy with the coverage THE TFC get(dont you love it when the dinosaurs call them THE TFC OR JUS FC.lol.i get all the all the info i want from kurt,john,neil.and the fine people on this site.i dont listen or watch the fan or tsn1050 other then tfc or epl.i avoid the dinosaurs.

Now that TFC is in first place, I think they'll get more traction in the media. I was listening to the radio on the way to work and they actually mentioned TFC's game in the Sports segment - and I live in Ottawa. It was on 1310 (the CFTR 680 equivalent in the GTA). No mention of the Fury game the same night though.
They did mention the Ottawa Redblacks game tonight, and that the Argos were tied for second place behind them.

[Pookie]

Although I agree this is all part of the plan B to rebuild the base, I must say I do't recall TFC ever offering 4 free tickets.

And don't forget this is from an ownership group who specifically said earlier in the season they would not reduce ticket prices and would not give out freebies. In essence, by giving away 4 tickets to a SSH, they are giving them 4/9th of the value of their season seat. If this was TFC doing this, we would be saying somebody in that Head Office should be fired for incompetence. I would be very surprised if somebody hasn't been let go already for not making SS and game day ticket targets. This is a results based business both on and off the field.

I've said before I hope they pull it around and its going to take 5 years to do so. But the initial "build it and they will come" approach has not worked and they are being forced to pretty desperate stuff now.

I don't recall a 4 for type promo. Closest I can remember was the CCL game played the day after the rain and maybe 100 people showed up.

Hard to say what they would have had to do to move tickets if it weren't for Beckham. Probably would have been much like the challenge of moving Concacaf tickets to this supposedly soccer rabid fan base.

Beckham got some people to consider MLS and a whole lot of people to want to seen at the Beckham "event." I wonder what the selfie post count to Facebook accounts in Toronto was that day.

As for the Argos ownership, yep. I think they missed a boat with the Grey Cup. But we have seen mistakes in "supply and demand" before with Toronto teams. Another critical point for us was the price slashing to save the fan base.

Like you, I hope they can turn it around. Having just returned from England where clearly history is cherished, to want to knock of our own century old sports traditions to the point of extinction... well it's just sad.

[redcard]

I enjoy the sarcasm in this thread. Love you guys.

On the serious front, the plan they are rolling out is the blueprint for building a franchise. Get people in the door and hopefully convert them.

TFC has also employed "wag jag" deals and Groupons, free admission to the ex, bulk deals on tickets (our local soccer club had 20 seats season seats back in the day before Beckham signed) and used "atmosphere" as the sell. We have been embarrassingly empty before. From STHs that didn't go to the fan base turning a snobby nose up at concacaf games.

MLSE's first year goal (pre Beckham) was 7,000 seats. Pent up demand from former Blizzard/Lynx fans just wasn't enough I guess.

Beckham came, they quickly bundled access to the LA game with cheap season seats and sold 1,000 in the first hour (one every 40-50 seconds I remember hearing). When they ran out of those bundles they bundled access to Beckham with the Marlies.

There probably should be a statue to Becks somewhere in the Board room. Who knows where we would be without his fans being the motivation to "try" TFC.

at that time the entire league was doing this package deal, and lets not forget we were a first year team, argos are not! also the argos are bundling this package with free admission to the CNE? what kind of incentive is that? the only good thing about the cne is the various offerings of food!!!

as i said before who is their beckham? no one. that type of league does not have a world renowned individual that people want to see...dying league they will never turn it around in the gta (or Montreal or Vancouver)...i just hope they dont try to package games with TFC seasons!!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I enjoy the sarcasm in this thread. Love you guys.

Well as long as we follow you back to a genuine discourse we'll be fine.




But you're right. This thread is constantly getting derailed from keeping tabs on how the Argos affect Toronto FC to more talk like:

[ensco]

MLSE's first year goal (pre Beckham) was 7,000 seats. Pent up demand from former Blizzard/Lynx fans just wasn't enough I guess.

It was 14K in the projections used by MLSE at City Council for the BMO pro forma in 2005.

[Pookie]

at that time the entire league was doing this package deal, and lets not forget we were a first year team, argos are not! also the argos are bundling this package with free admission to the CNE? what kind of incentive is that? the only good thing about the cne is the various offerings of food!!!

as i said before who is their beckham? no one. that type of league does not have a world renowned individual that people want to see...dying league they will never turn it around in the gta (or Montreal or Vancouver)...i just hope they dont try to package games with TFC seasons!!!

CFL is viewed as second rate compared to NFL, no question.

And throw a transatlantic EPL team in Toronto and would we see TFC support drop to current non existent CSL levels? probably.

There is no Beckham to save the CFL. But the similarities of using Beckham to appeal to a very casual fan base worked (at the gate at least) for us. And by using "fan experience" to get fans in the seats over time, I gather that's the Argos hope as well.

I find the barbs funny but I honestly don't get why anyone would want something uniquely Canadian to fail. Do we have too many traditions that we are already protecting?

Particularly when the whole point of this thread is to keep an eye on the playing conditions for our team. The playing conditions have been fine. I admit that I was wrong on that. Figured we would be headed for turf. Nope. Looks good. Well done.

Good luck to both franchises in gaining more popularity in the Toronto market.

[Pookie]

It was 14K in the projections used by MLSE at City Council for the BMO pro forma in 2005.

Not season tickets though. 14,000 fans a game. 7,000 were season tickets.

[Borga]

Dean Blundell was espousing this morning that TFC doesn't get enough coverage and he's always said they should get more coverage, that when he went to a game last year it was a fantastic fan experience.

I don't believe a word he said, given that prior to TFC being in first the only thing I ever heard from him was mockery of the team.

[KurtLarSUN]

Dean Blundell was espousing this morning that TFC doesn't get enough coverage and he's always said they should get more coverage, that when he went to a game last year it was a fantastic fan experience.

I don't believe a word he said, given that prior to TFC being in first the only thing I ever heard from him was mockery of the team.

I could be wrong, but pretty sure he called TFC "minor league" a few weeks back before my segment with Ben Ennis. That's what I was told. But, hey, there's room on the MLS bandwagon. The league needs attention. Welcome it.

[MartinUtd]

Nah fuck Dean Blundell. I can't believe somebody put him back on the radio... No talent hack that keeps falling up.

[ManUtd4ever]

Dean Blundell was espousing this morning that TFC doesn't get enough coverage and he's always said they should get more coverage, that when he went to a game last year it was a fantastic fan experience.

I don't believe a word he said, given that prior to TFC being in first the only thing I ever heard from him was mockery of the team.

Yeah, I heard that this morning. It would be nice if any of them had a clue. They couldn't even name five players on the team FFS. The only guy that has any credibility when discussing TFC on the air is Jeff Blair, but he doesn't do it often enough.

[Areathrasher]

Nah fuck Dean Blundell. I can't believe somebody put him back on the radio... No talent hack that keeps falling up.

Agreed.

[Red CB Toronto]

Although I agree this is all part of the plan B to rebuild the base, I must say I do't recall TFC ever offering 4 free tickets.

And don't forget this is from an ownership group who specifically said earlier in the season they would not reduce ticket prices and would not give out freebies. In essence, by giving away 4 tickets to a SSH, they are giving them 4/9th of the value of their season seat. If this was TFC doing this, we would be saying somebody in that Head Office should be fired for incompetence. I would be very surprised if somebody hasn't been let go already for not making SS and game day ticket targets. This is a results based business both on and off the field.

I've said before I hope they pull it around and its going to take 5 years to do so. But the initial "build it and they will come" approach has not worked and they are being forced to pretty desperate stuff now.

Giving season ticket holders extra tickets has been done before, it's a way of getting more people out. But seriously the Argos are making a mess of this. A good sales department is inovative and agresive in their approach to filling the stands, not a wait and see passive one. On one hand corporate partnerships are being handled by MLSE but ticket sales are not. From my understanding ego could have very well played a part it that decision being made.

Look at TFC, they have had sell outs of 30K to as low as 23K. I know the number of sellouts that the sales department promised Bill Manning, targeted for has already been surpassed. It's pretty easy to know when a sellout is in the cards, because only then the $20 GA tickets are released as they have for this weekends game vs. Montreal.