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  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I don't know.
    I think it will be similar.
    Rainy monday after a beautiful weekend.
    Jays in town.
    Bachelorette is on.
    Big Raw after a PPV.

    to be fair, it was an awesome raw though..

  2. #4952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    What does announced attendance, and direct income for tax reporting have anything to do with each other?

    Free tickets, and Pokemon Go was the recipe for this week. What's next? Free tickets + free beer?
    Lets not forget they had a 30% off sale on Groupon as well...I wonder how those folks feel about the freebies given out.

    I guess anyone that paid to attend last night must be pissed at the free tix.

  3. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by __wowza View Post
    to be fair, it was an awesome raw though..
    Balor! wow.

  4. #4954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Would not be surprised if freebies are not included in that number for tax purposes.
    Really Tax purposes?

    HST will be separated by your accounting and sales software based on actual sales data not gate data.

    A Good CRM will be able to show: # tickets paid for, # of free, % of paid/free used and if the organization is organized you can break down freebies to the person doing the activation and location to see the success rate of getting people into the stadium. None of that data will be used for tax purposes.

    Further to that point an organization who is struggling will never deflate gate numbers to the public, it makes no sense. I have little demand in my product so I'm going to show less inquiring about my product than actually came to see it? Never

  5. #4955
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    Worse weather conditions with the rain yesterday morning. Shouldn't be so much to flood it badly but I would like to see the pitch today.

    Still confident it should be playable for Sun.

    Still want to see what gridiron does to that all natural investment this time around, though.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  6. #4956
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    There's no doubt that during the CNE the agros will be handing out free tickets...stadium will be packed and tsn will actually show the grandstands!

    The pictures from that game will be used in all of their marketing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    There's no doubt that during the CNE the agros will be handing out free tickets...stadium will be packed and tsn will actually show the grandstands!
    ...
    Don't conspiracy theory this - they were freely showing the grandstands last night.

  8. #4958
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Don't conspiracy theory this - they were freely showing the grandstands last night.
    lol...over the last 2 games when I have casually switched the channel over...tsn did not once pan over the crowd (and I wasn't watching for a couple of seconds)...no conspiracy theory here...just that facts as I observed them.

  9. #4959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Worse weather conditions with the rain yesterday morning. Shouldn't be so much to flood it badly but I would like to see the pitch today.

    Still confident it should be playable for Sun.

    Still want to see what gridiron does to that all natural investment this time around, though.

    Send messages to this twitter account asking about the conditions of the grounds.
    https://twitter.com/TFC_GroundsDept

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    Got an email about half price upper bowl tickets for the 3 games next week. Admittedly not free tickets like the Argos but still if I was a SSH up there...I'd be crying cause I had vertigo.
    (I think the discount works out to $9 less then the SSH's up there are paying)

  11. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    lol...over the last 2 games when I have casually switched the channel over...tsn did not once pan over the crowd (and I wasn't watching for a couple of seconds)...no conspiracy theory here...just that facts as I observed them.
    I watched quite a bit of yesterday's game, on a free stream. They showed good views of both the east & west stands a number of times.

    I didn't see as much of the south stand though while I was watching.

  12. #4962
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Got an email about half price upper bowl tickets for the 3 games next week. Admittedly not free tickets like the Argos but still if I was a SSH up there...I'd be crying cause I had vertigo.
    (I think the discount works out to $9 less then the SSH's up there are paying)
    i thought mlse promised that they would not sell tickets for less than what an SSH paid...

  13. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    i thought mlse promised that they would not sell tickets for less than what an SSH paid...
    Well they are selling them to SSH's as extras. From my experience, those seats have always been discounted. What is being offered is the top 30 rows of the East side.

  14. #4964
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    Argos present reminds me of TFC in the tough years. Paper ticket attendance.

    Went to my first CFL game on Monday and I think if they keep prices reasonable, demand will return.

    They are making the team approachable. Like TFC used to do back in the days of free pub crawls. Where you could eat at a Jack Astors, and visit with players one on one without paying for a dinner ticket.

    The "Shipyard" pregame party was hosted by Kardinal Offishial and they had plenty of beer flowing. Cheerleaders made their way through the crowds talking to fans and there were games set up for the kids.

    Players come out from under 104 with high fives for kids along the way.

    Biggest challenge for them I would say are ticket prices. Not stupid expensive but a good pair would set you back $160. For someone that want to "try it" that's a little step. My youngest and I took in her first Jays game last night and our pair was under $50 and there is slightly discounted pricing for youth.

    Merchandise was stupid expense at +$120 for a hoody which we didn't buy.

    The key for them is to get grass roots support. Pepper the city with Argos t shirts and good will. Elements are there for this to take off. Just like TFC did.

    That's the key but since elements of MLSE are holding it, I have my doubts as to whether it will turn. Overpriced for their current market in my opinion

  15. #4965
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    Overpriced because they have to pay far too many people before they see any actual money.

  16. #4966
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    how long will it be before tanenbaum and bell or one call it quits and sell or relocate?

    I dot see how bell will continue to put money into a losing cause.

    Pookie - TFC was a new team which is why there were early struggles, plus soccer is a growing sport, Argos are not a new franchise, and football is not a growing sport which many children play...I don't see the comparison.

  17. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    how long will it be before tanenbaum and bell or one call it quits and sell or relocate?

    I dot see how bell will continue to put money into a losing cause.

    Pookie - TFC was a new team which is why there were early struggles, plus soccer is a growing sport, Argos are not a new franchise, and football is not a growing sport which many children play...I don't see the comparison.
    Bell won't give up on them for a long time.
    the TV content value is too much.
    TSN makes good money from the TV commercials.
    CFL is one of the most watched things on TV in Canada in the summer time.
    After the jays, I think the CFL is right up there in terms of desired eyeballs on a national level.
    So as long as every person west of Thunder Bay and East of Ottawa continues to watch loads of CFL, the Argos will be propped up.

  18. #4968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    What does announced attendance, and direct income for tax reporting have anything to do with each other?

    Free tickets, and Pokemon Go was the recipe for this week. What's next? Free tickets + free beer?
    I was going to say the exact same thing - they have nothing to do with each other.

    They would never announce the tickets scanned (actually people in attendance) then.
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

  19. #4969
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    how long will it be before tanenbaum and bell or one call it quits and sell or relocate?

    I dot see how bell will continue to put money into a losing cause.

    Pookie - TFC was a new team which is why there were early struggles, plus soccer is a growing sport, Argos are not a new franchise, and football is not a growing sport which many children play...I don't see the comparison.
    See the point below (or above I guess regarding media content)

    I guess it depends if you think of soccer as new to Toronto with TFC or whether TFC was an extension of the support for soccer at a professional level.

    TFC was very popular early on. Surpassing that 14,000 avg fan attendance forecast by a wide margin. That of course led to the Marlies' packs, ticket price hikes and ultimate fan revolt (or apathy). TFC struggled to keep the fans as a result of misjudging the base market.

    Something I think the Argos are doing with their calculations. Probably hedging on the new stadium bump and hoping to establish value for tickets at a higher price. The Grey Cup prices are insane, which is a weird thank you for grass roots support. But I don't think they are focusing on that, which is where I think they are missing the mark.

    We had fun. My son plays high school football. An Argos "supporter" is just as passionate as some of our best folks on Marches.

    I'm not paying $200 for a night out though on a regular basis. Which is what I would have to pay at their current market rates (plus tailgate parking).

    So I went to a game. We had fun. They had a chance to bring me back. Probably not. I'm a casual CFL fan. And casual isn't worth that price IMO

  20. #4970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    Bell won't give up on them for a long time.
    the TV content value is too much.
    TSN makes good money from the TV commercials.
    CFL is one of the most watched things on TV in Canada in the summer time.
    After the jays, I think the CFL is right up there in terms of desired eyeballs on a national level.
    So as long as every person west of Thunder Bay and East of Ottawa continues to watch loads of CFL, the Argos will be propped up.
    But how necessary is it to prop up a team in Toronto to generate TV ratings from other areas of the country? Keep in mind this is an old, stodgy company that typically buys existing assets that perform well on their own. Reclaimation projects or building something new is not in their DNA.

    Somebody is going to stand up at a meeting one day and say: "how much longer are you going to sandbag my TV profits with your shitty football team?" and there won't be much in the way of answers.

    This thing has to stand on its own feet.

  21. #4971
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    ^ it's standing on its own feet, just a matter of the choice of shoes.

    Which business model would you rather have?

    A gate driven business or a business that is based on owning "popular" media content?

    Answer is likely both but if you have to choose, media/tv content probably wins over a gate driven revenue base. Tv deals are long and stable.

  22. #4972
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    But how necessary is it to prop up a team in Toronto to generate TV ratings from other areas of the country?
    The ad revenue requires a GTA product, and the Ti-Cats are not enough.

    CFL ratings are up big this season but are still below numbers from 5 years ago. Those increases are unlikely due to Argos to BMO as they are up across teams. Now, if the ratings had continued to drop like they had been, there would have been cutbacks and layoffs at TSN for sure. That's why the big TSN efforts to pump up the Argos.

    I've yet to see a regional breakdown on ratings and there is discussion of a big increase in 18-34 without actual numbers being published.

  23. #4973
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    This is purely a TV play for Bell. I think as long as attendance doesn't get embarrassing low, Bell can live with small losses on Argos when it means millions in profit from the TV side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The ad revenue requires a GTA product, and the Ti-Cats are not enough.

    CFL ratings are up big this season but are still below numbers from 5 years ago. Those increases are unlikely due to Argos to BMO as they are up across teams. Now, if the ratings had continued to drop like they had been, there would have been cutbacks and layoffs at TSN for sure. That's why the big TSN efforts to pump up the Argos.

    I've yet to see a regional breakdown on ratings and there is discussion of a big increase in 18-34 without actual numbers being published.
    When you think about it, the CFL and MLS business models have some similarities. (League cost control of salaries aside)

    The value of TFC is increased exponentially as a result of the fact that owning TFC gets owners a share in SUM. Which is clearly content driven.

    The business model that gave birth to TFC wasn't really dependent on attendance. They figured 14k. The ownership stake in SUM was the driver. Unfortunately for MLS, big ticket SUM games are all that drive their TV revenue as the league games themselves draw very little. They have had to depend on gate receipts to offset league costs. That said, don't feel that bad. SUM is a money maker

    CFL would love higher gates but have a comfortable existence based on the content rights. And the fact that owners stand to make significant earnings off the Grey Cup (not unlike the SUM event payday).
    Last edited by Pookie; 07-27-2016 at 11:08 AM.

  25. #4975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    ... And the fact that owners stand to make significant earnings off the Grey Cup (not unlike the SUM event payday).
    Earnings off of Grey Cups are given only to the local team. Which is why a lot of the league is ticked at the CFL for signing off on so many Toronto Grey cups for the next few years.

  26. #4976
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The ad revenue requires a GTA product, and the Ti-Cats are not enough.

    CFL ratings are up big this season but are still below numbers from 5 years ago. Those increases are unlikely due to Argos to BMO as they are up across teams. Now, if the ratings had continued to drop like they had been, there would have been cutbacks and layoffs at TSN for sure. That's why the big TSN efforts to pump up the Argos.

    I've yet to see a regional breakdown on ratings and there is discussion of a big increase in 18-34 without actual numbers being published.
    Why don't they actually make the smart business decision and pump TFC/MLS. The long term trend is downward for Canadian and American football. You see any major high school football teams? No, its all Rugby, parents are increasingly unwilling to put their kids in American/Canadian football because of the risk of injuries we all know about today.

    The broadcasters need to wake up and get on the real football train which is the money maker of the future.

  27. #4977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    ...The broadcasters need to wake up and get on the real football train which is the money maker of the future.
    That's a decades long investment. All these companies are quarterly report driven.

    The only reason they are in soccer at all is future prospects. They believe that MLS could be the CFL of the future and don't want to give up that potential to the other guy.

  28. #4978
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    Looks like some more media folks are running another poll .... https://twitter.com/NaylorLandsberg/...65245817724928

  29. #4979
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidA View Post
    Looks like some more media folks are running another poll .... https://twitter.com/NaylorLandsberg/...65245817724928
    Do these guys even talk about footy?

  30. #4980
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidA View Post
    Looks like some more media folks are running another poll .... https://twitter.com/NaylorLandsberg/...65245817724928
    LOL Toronto FC now in the lead with 34%, 4 hours to go in the poll. Come on, let's push it over the top just to piss them off!

 

 

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