free / complementary tickets
free / complementary tickets
Free tickets or tickets on the cheap. E.g. Argos used to sell $8 tickets through Metro if you bought $20 in groceries. At $8, the Argos were losing money.Originally Posted by mook-life
They also gave away a ticket if you bought a certain amount of stuff at other places. Pizza Pizza, IIRC.
And if you were running a minor football team, they'd give you and your little guys and their parents cheap tickets either so you could be half time entertainment (peewee football) or provide ambiance. TFC does that too. But, with minor football, you are usually talking about 50 seats per team, at least.
High school counsellors were offered tickets to give out. I could get tickets usually twice a season that way through somebody I knew who didn't know many CFL fans.
The way to know which section they do this in is to watch how few of the same people show up to an area each game. If a bunch of high school kids were in an area, mugging for the cameras, it was papered. Cause those sections never have the same people for the next game.
The theory is these people will love it and come back. In the Argos case, didn't happen. After awhile, you run out of people who want to go.
TFC does it too, just not as blatantly. Heck everybody but the Leafs does it (well the Raptors just stopped this season but don't forget, all us SSH got a pair to a game just a couple of seasons ago).
The Bills In Toronto did this every single game - some people paid hundreds of $ for seats and somebody else just got a pair off of a Rogers flunkie giving them away on game day.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-25-2016 at 08:17 PM.
thank you for that , I don't feel so clueless now
It's possible with enough marketing now that the NFL in Toronto is dead (and it is completely dead) that the Argos can sell enough tickets to make them worth keeping around. The CFL is really a TV show, so the Argos only have to sell enough tickets to cover the production costs. Most TV shows give away the tickets for free. It may change in the future, but right now Bell (TSN) need good ratings from Canadian content. And the CFL gets better ratings than anything else Bell make themselves (Bitten, 19-2 in English, etc.).
it was all Keith Pelley. He left in 2008 to work on the olympics i believe.
He was a great marketer and sports executive, built up TSN. He works somewhere in europe now IIRC
Last edited by Onyx; 02-25-2016 at 09:24 PM.
When you so call paper a crowd, it can really cost you as you still have to pay the tax on each ticket distributed regardless if you actually sold it. If you look a the difference between the 2002 Argo season and 2003 there was a 5k drop in average attendence, that is the difference between papering a crowd and actually announcing a legit number. When Howard and David bought the team in 2004 it went up again.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
He's the head of the European Golf Tour
Sure smells that way.
And even he couldn't save the Argos. Knew what a sinking ship it was and scuttled away before his plimsoles got soaked.
You won't get kids to go to CFL games in Toronto. My kids have brought scores of their friends into the house and devoured NFL football since they were pre-teens (they're now in university). They and their friends have no interest in the CFL. It's all about the NFL and they follow it passionately, playing fantasy league games and visiting Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit to watch it live.
The Argos have floundered despite being propped up heavily in the media with saturation coverage from TSN and Sun-Postmedia papers. Yet soccer continues to grow and progress despite decades of poor coverage that often took a negative, condescending or demeaning tone.
When you look at the rapidly diversifying demographics of Toronto, there's even less chance of securing a young audience for the CFL in years ahead. It gives me no pleasure to say this because I grew up following the Argos. Soccer is the way forward for life at BMO Field and MLSE know it and have invested in it accordingly.
I think you're probably right about the CFL. I'm just not convinced that the future of MLS is much different. It will be a tier two league for a long time. Soccer as a participation sport is growing, everyone can see that. But that's been the case for a long time and so far it hasn't translated into TV ratings for MLS. I'm glad these companies continue to invest but they are media companies and they need TV ratings. The success of MLS isn't a given and it just seems all the things people are saying about the CFL-NFL could as easily be said about MLS-European leagues. Why will that lead to the failure of the CFL but the success of MLS?
Dude left in '08. This chart is from one page ago shows he did a job for them in the years before '08.
He could leave with his head held high, I'd say. Since then it clearly hasn't been clear sailing but talking about the sinking Argos when they are obviously are going to get the shot in the arm with this move is a bit premature.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Keith actually left after the Grey Cup in 2007. He was a real mover and shaker in the sports entertainment and marketing world. Did a lot of good things will the Argos after building up TSN and now is trying to do the same thing with the European PGA Tour.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
I'm sure there'll be the novelty factor for 2016, and maybe even 2017.
It's 2018 that I think will be the tell-tale season for Argos attendance (sorry for anyone wanting a quick end to this debate!)
You've pressed this comparison before BR and I'd say you're close in comparison but the difference will be whether a large scale of acceptance of NA(-1) league will trump the foreign tv league or not. CFL and NFL are pretty clear in distinction - 2 different countries and levels.
MLS is an NA(-1 again) league that has 3 other accepted major league examples. Granted those are all considered the top tier in the sport but at least they aren't the pride of one country alone (regardless what the Yanks would say about it).
This admittedly small difference now could affect growth. How much? Not much for now but who can tell? You asked for difference - That's the biggest diff I see.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
HA! This isn't even the first thread about it. 140 pgs and counting...I'm sure there'll be the novelty factor for 2016, and maybe even 2017.
It's 2018 that I think will be the tell-tale season for Argos attendance (sorry for anyone wanting a quick end to this debate!
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
http://argonauts.io-media.com/web/index.html#
http://argonauts.io-media.com/web/index.html#
You can see what the stadium looks like with the roof and with end zones. Pick a section, it's interesting.
Has anyone noticed some of the seats are blue in that link? The "Toronto" under the soccer Canada logo.
Looks Onyx to me.
I notice though how the row of seats at the North end looks flatter in the Argo 3D then the seating for TFC.
And the big screen is gone for the Argos.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-26-2016 at 10:23 PM.
I don't see a single sold out section on that Argos' map.
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
Cause they don't start selling season tickets until Tuesday.
SEASON TICKETS ON SALE TUESDAY MARCH 1st at 10AM!
I see where you are going with this - willing to take you on. Understand that the whole thing is perception/vision/prediction - a fact free debate - my favourite kind.
Why will MLS grow while CFL fades?
A factor that you forget when looking at both NFL over CFL and Euro leagues over MLS is the quality of television production. Euro and NFL will always be an enticing television production- sort of the rich get richer aspect of tv sports. My view is that the MLS is ahead of CFL in both quality of coverage, desire to improve the tv product (after all MLS compete against NFL, NBA, MLB in differing variations in all markets save Vancouver and Montreal) AND an interest in social media.
The related x media factor - I have always explained the difference between North American sports and the world passion for soccer this way. North Americans fall in love with their sport on television - they confirm their love by attending a game, but it is a media saturated passion (hockey without Hockey Night in Canada? LA Dodgers without Vin Scully, John Madden and the NFL - hey even Marv Albert and the NBA spring to mind). The world falls in love with soccer at the stadium - they confirm their love by watching it on tv - but it is a love that begins in the open air. Maybe, just maybe, the kids growing up at the MLS stadiums are going to be involved in a sea change in MLS television ratings.
The home grown hero factor - I am old enough to remember the 86 World Cup and Canada men's team qualifying, so I know how long I have been holding my breath on this one)... but one day a Canadian star will emerge and TFC will build their fortune around him. The CFL equivalent does not exist - if a football superstar Johnny Canuck arrives - he will go to the NFL.
The global factor - World Cups, Olympics, Euros will always serve to bring awareness to soccer that CFL can't compete with. This factor grows further out of control if you combine it with the home grown hero factor
The female participation factor - MLSE and TFC have dropped the ball on this one imho, but TFC and MLS have the opportunity to present an enhanced family friendly product by adding a TFC Women's team. CFL will never have a Christine Sinclair...
just throwing a few out there....
You know, I saw that and actually thought to myself, "That date has passed. Yeah, it has definitely passed."
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
What's with the painted logo on the grass and in the south end? Is this another MLSE lie.
Depends on who you think they are giving that lie to.
How did you check? I'm curious to see which seats are available and which aren't. Is there an overview of the entire stadium with availability?
When you hover over a section it will say sold out if it is sold out.
hoverover the section in the .io 3D map - but I'm an idiot and they haven't gone on sale.
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
I'm only curious cuz those Argos fanatics are claiming 15k sold already.
The probable source for any rumours like that would be either
a) people in the box office saying something that somebody else interprets and guesstimates
b) wishful thinking from people outside of Toronto who "just know" that Montreal is going to be happen again
c) "Oh look at all those sections that I as an Argo early bird subscriber can't get access to. They must be sold out!"
d) TSN dude says something and "well, they are the owners now, so it must be true"
Look, as a CFL fan I hope the Argos do well enough to eventually get their own stadium and leave TFC in peace. (Unlikely, but hey, we live in hope). But, we know all about how that ownership group does things.
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