Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Blizzard]

argos have already mentioned they are likely going with field turf endzones like the stadium in moncton so they can have onfield advertising.

Which is logical considering that they won't be allowed any advertising or league graphics between the goal lines.

[Pookie]

From what I have seen , most Argo attenders drive.

Can't take the subway to Ajax.

TFC fans would drive too... If it weren't for the Ex, Indy, Gardiner closures, and more.

Such a convenient location for a stadium.

[Mulder]

Do you get paid to monitor the net and spread linament over all the Argos ugly bits? 'Cause you are active.

Yes.

It was interesting to hear the new CFL commissioner talk about the need to generate new revenue streams. Even he knows what a fine line the CFL is walking. The most logical choice of revenue acquisition is to get more sponsors.

He is referring to mobile apps, and streaming (which he helped develop at CBC) Every other major sports league has a pay streaming option. That's a new revenue stream.

How come the Argos don't do business with Core Media? They are a neat little boutique commercial agency that does some very strategic work for many sports entities. They sell advertising - in-arena, editorial and broadcast. They do the game programs for the Jays, Leafs, Raptors, Toronto FC and the Ottawa Senators. They do outstanding work and have done so for years. They're a huge asset in directing commercial activity.

They're not involved with the Argos. Had one brief, unpleasant experience with them and said goodbye. One of their principals told me he'd never deal with them again. If there's a buck to be made bringing corporate and sporting clients together, these are the people to do it and they aren't interested in the CFL.

Can you provide proof of this? I've already discredited so much of what you've said that it's hard to believe almost anything you say. It also doesn't help that the Argonauts marketing budget seems to be that of a brown paper bag lunch.

As for the NHL hockey deal, one need only look to where TV exec and hockey business weathervane John Shannon took his seat in the years prior to Rogers winning their 12-year deal. Everyone in the biz knew what was coming down, including TSN. That's why they moved early.

Not sure what this relates too

You can make all the excuses you want about the CFL but after all these many years, they still can't get it right. You can say they have no responsibility for the stadium problems we're seeing, but any club who is going to be a prime tenant in a facility of that magnitude has a duty and a care to seeing things go right. But this is where the CFL comes acropper.

3 other people have commented that the stadium problems are not the responsibility of the CFL team playing there, you continually only attack my posts for it. Sorry, you are wrong. So very very wrong on this.

The league has operated for so long either living on skin-thin profit margins, in red ink or outright receivership that it has to have a bearing on the calibre of people who get hired. It's kind of like that 'beggars-can't-be-choosers' thing. You mentioned Eric Tillman - hey, who knew about his lifestyle habits? Properly resourced and, quite frankly, less desperate clubs don't hire people like that.

Again, so wrong. Maybe you should look at the profitability of the western teams. The issue has been the east, and that tide is turning and maybe your scared of what the CFL could become again. Profitable, Stable. It's a scary thought for one of the only Canadian Pro leagues out there, I know!

What a country we live in where someone who, doesn't have a criminal conviction for the offense you are hinting at, is still prosecuted. Shame on you.

One can only conclude that similar weaknesses exist within other clubs regarding oversight of the construction of their stadia.

Again, nothing CFL clubs had nothing to do with the delays at the stadiums. You are making very weak links.

This Ottawa situation isn't foreesable because of a 2-16 season. It's foreseeable because some good marketing people pumped every tire available to them to get bums on seats. Now that they've seen the bums on the field, this is the response. It will be worse next year.

An 80% renewal rate is their response? We'll see what happens next year.

Ottawa isn't a football town. The game's gone bankrupt twice there and will happen again. Family and friends all over Ottawa tell me they aren't giving up their ski passes to Edelweiss or Cascade nor green fees at Rivermead or July Bluesfest tickets to re-live that slow slide into oblivion.

Again, So very wrong. You are aware I live in Ottawa? Everywhere I go there seems to be at least 1 person wearing RedBlacks gear. Ottawa is a football town. I'm sorry that your friends and family who live here are not aware on what's going on.

You bring up the fact that the Beem is a city owned stadium. True, but again, in seeking to move in there, where are the Argos really going? From one second-string tenancy to another second-string tenancy that will not end well.

Working around 81 dates + concerts to working around 20ish dates seems in a stadium more designed for looking at the field instead of the back of someones head seems like a win for me.

Instead of presenting ideas and suggestions for what might work elsewhere, the Argos and their fans are clinging like quivering barnacles to the hull of the first rescue vessel that floats by. I guess that's what decades of financial chaos, mismanagement and a shrivelling fan base will do for you.

IMO, the fan base is there, many have been put off by Rogers Centre, a few years ago Argos did a survey of people who canceled their season tickets (I think it was 2009, a 3-15 season). Reason #2 was how Rogers Security treated them. I know many people personally who also cancelled because of this. Can you imagine being at a TFC game and being told to sit down and enjoy the baseball game?

If any club has been helped by moving into a "smaller, more football friendly stadium" then it would be Montreal. Of course, it only cost Montreal taxpayers $25 million to make it more football friendly. But at least it's their own stadium and they can properly celebrate their history and the sport there because they don't share that with a soccer team. That's the ideal situation and one we need to emulate here in Toronto.

Technically it's not Montreal's own stadium, they have to setup the stadium the day before gameday for the Als and remove anything Als afterward. It's not exactly ideal considering the Als are the biggest draw in that stadium.
And where do you propose such a stadium? IMO, Varsity was the best option going.

Spending money on soccer at BMO Field is a sound investment. The game has grown massively and will only continue to do so. Federal immigration policies alone will ensure that. But first-hand evidence can be seen any weekday night from mid-April to mid-September, driving past parks like Lamoureux, McLevin, the Ashtonbee Reservoir, Esther Shiner, Earlscourt, Eglinton Flats, Centennial and countless others. There, you will see scores of kids of every age and ethnicity playing soccer, cheered on by parents who, if they aren't talking their kids soccer, they're talking every other kind of soccer.

Kids have been playing soccer like that in Canada for 30+ years. There has also been talk about the "massive growth potential for soccer in NA" for the same time. The growth on the woman's level has been realized, the mens, well, there is countries with population less than Toronto proper ranked higher. Hopefully that eventually changes.

That's what smart money sees and that's where smart money, and the smart people it attracts, is going. That's what MLSE saw when they looked through an in-house study not too many years back, trying to assess how to market hockey to a changing demographic.

Sure.....

[Mulder]

argos have already mentioned they are likely going with field turf endzones like the stadium in moncton so they can have onfield advertising.

I believe it was Tim Leiweke that mentioned this.

Moncton's field is now all artificial turf.

It was merely a suggestion that it may be possible to keep a the same playing surface though out the stadium. It's been proven it's doable with a similar idea to what I had in mind.

[GabrielHurl]

And it was said there would be no onfield advertising - it would be added by TSN digitally

[Fort York Redcoat]

I believe it was Tim Leiweke that mentioned this.

Moncton's field is now all artificial turf.

It was merely a suggestion that it may be possible to keep a the same playing surface though out the stadium. It's been proven it's doable with a similar idea to what I had in mind.

Oh I'm sure they could do it. Just not without degrading the pitch. We still are in a situation with no actual precedent, only similarities.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Can you provide proof of this? I've already discredited so much of what you've said that it's hard to believe almost anything you say. It also doesn't help that the Argonauts marketing budget seems to be that of a brown paper bag lunch.

Working around 81 dates + concerts to working around 20ish dates seems in a stadium more designed for looking at the field instead of the back of someones head seems like a win for me.

IMO, the fan base is there, many have been put off by Rogers Centre, a few years ago Argos did a survey of people who canceled their season tickets (I think it was 2009, a 3-15 season). Reason #2 was how Rogers Security treated them. I know many people personally who also cancelled because of this. Can you imagine being at a TFC game and being told to sit down and enjoy the baseball game?

Just a couple things from this diatribe (you two ) :

Firstly, a confidential interaction doesn't need to be proven here. Either believe it or don't. We take it for what it is.

The 81 dates vs 20ish is misleading since the conversion between the two (Rogers Centre, BMO) have different maintenance concerns. Do you know what the turnaround is from Baseball to gridiron? Concert to gridiron? What I suspect is that it may be more "hands on deck" work in Rogers Centre but the time to groom the pitch at BMO takes just that - time.

So your 20ish days have (ALLEGEDLY) TWO recovery days tagged on after them. Now we're talking about 60 days. Still a better story for your Argos calendar but not as flexible as they are selling us.

[Mulder]

Just a couple things from this diatribe (you two ) :

Firstly, a confidential interaction doesn't need to be proven here. Either believe it or don't. We take it for what it is.

The 81 dates vs 20ish is misleading since the conversion between the two (Rogers Centre, BMO) have different maintenance concerns. Do you know what the turnaround is from Baseball to gridiron? Concert to gridiron? What I suspect is that it may be more "hands on deck" work in Rogers Centre but the time to groom the pitch at BMO takes just that - time.

So your 20ish days have (ALLEGEDLY) TWO recovery days tagged on after them. Now we're talking about 60 days. Still a better story for your Argos calendar but not as flexible as they are selling us.

Some things I've found still counts the Toronto Argonauts a client of Core Media. I'll take what he says with a grain of salt.

But it really doesn't matter what media company is involved does it? It's just another lame excuse IMO.

Currently Rogers describes the turnaround as a 48 hour affair. - adding an additional 36 days (2 to convert to football, 2 to convert back to baseball) Not including concerts is 117 to 60.

Now that doesn't include the April -> June games where there is no conflict with the Argos, but IMO, that only benefits the Argos as there could be less potential games conflicting with some 1 - 2 extra games before July. Blue Jays don't really offer that scheduling flexibility, as shown in the past.

[Auzzy]

Woohoo, we will continue to have lots of cold & crappy TFC home games early in the season, maybe even more than in the past years, to leave more dates open for the Argos when the weather is nice in the summer & early fall!

[Canary10]

Maybe the CFL should follow the NFL schedule. The stadium would be free most of the time, since we never play past October.

[CBTFC]

I've never understood why the CFL doesn't start their season earlier by a good month or so. I'd be more inclined to watch.

By the time the CFL starts in late june, the last thing I want to do on an early summer's friday evening is stay indoors.

[bones]

Has anyone thought about putting a nice temp stadium like they did in Vancity (Empire field, nice temp 27K+ seats for 14.4M, could do it cheaper for smaller and no lux boxes) for the Argos in the parking lot at Ontario Place? See how it goes for 2 years then decide if a perm structure works in that area of similar capacity?

[OgtheDim]

I've never understood why the CFL doesn't start their season earlier by a good month or so.

Given none of their stadiums are grass anymore, you'd think that wouldn't be an issue. But, the tradition of fall football runs deep in this country.

i.e. Most of the country doesn't see an issue.

[greatwhitenorf]

Further to Mulder:

Ahh, mobile apps and streaming. That’s catering to a younger audience. Something that scarcely exists for the CFL in the 416. If you actually visit Toronto area high schools or hang out at minor sports events and mix and mingle with a broad cross-section of parents and families - as I have and continue to do - you won’t hear the CFL get the slightest mention. Just like no one talks about the Marlies or junior hockey other than McDavid, no one talks Argos the way they talk about Leafs, Raptors, Jays, NFL and soccer. TFC are right in the mix when they talk soccer. Even cricket gets talked about more than the CFL. When Johnny Commisioner talks money from streaming, he’s dreaming. Give him our best when you pick up your next paycheque and spend it wisely.

Core Media’s website lists their clients, but if you actually attend games in Toronto, you’d see their presence first hand. If the Argos have a 'brown paper lunch bag’ advertising budget, maybe it’s a fair reflection of the fact that they are losing mega-millions annually and realize that no one's really paying attention. If they were such tantalizing property with prospects galore, doesn’t it stand to reason that Braley would have sold them by now? But no, he’s chosen to hang onto them so he can stand watch over their steady demise. There’s a lot of smart people here when it comes to investments and they know bargains when they see them. They also know catfood when they see it and the Argos have a great record the Catfood Bowl, although they were run close by the two bankruptcies of the Ottawa Renegades and Riders and the Alouettes bankruptcy and closure. When season ticket sales decline below 4,000 total after winning the 2012 Grey Cup, that's a pretty clear statement of what Toronto sports fans think. Nothing speaks louder than voting with your wallet.

If you’re not sure what the NHL deal reference means, it's all about dominoes. By losing the NHL deal, TSN have taken a huge hit. For those of us who understand the hockey business, Shannon’s presence at Sportsnet was an indicator of things to come, a very bad omen for TSN years in advance of losing the NHL deal. Shannon is the ultimate insider. He ran Hockey Night in Canada on CBC for many years and maintains very close ties to the NHL. TSN knew what was coming and spending on the CFL was a pre-emptive move on their part to try and shore up their weakened content. They’ve moved in similar fashion with curling. Not surprisingly, both those sports fit comfortably with the viewing habits of an aging or shut in group of viewers - retirees, retirement-bound baby boomers or house-bound prairie residents sheltering from the blizzards of September - and you can nicely package advertising for both sports.

So you don’t think the CFL clubs had any responsibility in their current stadium fiascos? I was in the Air Canada Centre last night. Great arena that was a very complex structure to build, given that it had to incorporate the historic facade of an old art-deco postal building. Do you think MLSE didn’t scrutinize every possible development as that building went up? That building has been a monstrous success since Day 1 and we haven’t once heard of the sort of problems plaguing Winnipeg and Hamilton’s stadiums. It’s because the expertise was there to ensure everything about the construction went by the book. That sort of fundamental management capability evidently doesn’t exist with certain CFL clubs. Why should anyone trust the Argos to have the sort of management that will bring sound judgement to BMO Field? They couldn’t even manage to keep a proper practice facility for years.

Argos people love to bellyache about the dome and what an awful facility it is. The Blue Jays draw very well there and I don’t hear fans complaining about anything other than the plastic field. They’re doing a smart thing by going to grass and optimizing conditions for their core product. The Argos will create exactly the same sort of conflict with Toronto FC and our national soccer teams by tearing up the grass.

So you live in Ottawa. And you’re a paid lobbyist advocating that your city loves football when two separate versions of CFL clubs were so beloved they went bankrupt. The facts far outweigh your paid-for opinion.

My brother-in-law supervises construction in Ottawa. Knows very well how Minto works. They’re the development company who are part of the Lansdowne consortium. Football is a loss leader in this project. The key element in the project was getting zoning approval to build to particular heights, density and usages in a desirable area, The Glebe(like leafy Leaside) where residents didn’t want it. The city held its nose and let it through. Now, developers have a gateway to approvals for similar projects in future. Jeff Hunt, another consortium member, really doesn’t care about the football. He just wanted free renovations to the hockey arena under the stands for his OHL 67s. Which got started, but never finished because public money ran out and now the arena is a bit of a dump, with its upper suites and media boxes uninhabitable because they’re condemned. Attendances have plummeted. What makes it even more intriguing is that proposals are now underway to build a new NHL arena in LeBreton Flats and the city isn’t putting another nickel into the Lansdowne arena.

So to sum up:
Hamilton stadium – delays, cost overuns, sub-contractor bankruptcies and liens to collect unpaid fees.
Winnipeg – shoddy construction, lawsuits, possible shifting of women’s World Cup games.
Ottawa – CFL stadium built at public expense now seeing declining support, sub-structure issues under main stand with city money halted.

And you suggest we add BMO Field to that litany of woe that has the CFL as its common link?

It will be harder, counter-productive even, to slot the Argos into BMO Field than Rogers Centre because the dome fields are synthetic. An overnight turnaround to convert. Trying to make a suitable playing surface for quality soccer during a cold, wet spell in September and October, when the run for the playoffs is on, will be far more difficult than laying carpet and rubber pellets. Toronto FC is willing to spend to attract talent to make the playoffs. But the best brand of soccer to appease that talent requires a quality playing surface. If a chewed up pitch costs Toronto points in late season games, the inevitable outcome will be hostility. But the Argos won’t care. In fact, the Argos will delight in hearing about TFC having problems with a lumpy, torn-up pitch.

Soccer is growing like no other sport in Canada. In America, too. I mentioned in my previous post about smart money seeing that. Look at the calibre of ownership in MLS. Some of the richest soccer club owners in the world – billionaires, all - are part of MLS: Philip Anschutz(AEG) in LA, Paul Allen(Microsoft) in Seattle, City Football Group & NY Yankees with New York City FC, Stan Kroenke (Walmart, Arsenal FC, St. Louis Rams) in Colorado, Robert Kraft (New England Patriots) in New England, the Bronfman family in Chicago, and soon, Arthur Blank(Home Depot & Atlanta Falcons) in Atlanta. Here in Toronto, MLSE aren’t too shabby. Montreal’s owners, the Saputo family, could buy the Alouettes with their pocket change. Vancouver’s owners include NBA superstar Steve Nash.

“Sure... .” says you? Yeah. Damn sure. That’s smart money in anyone’s books. How’s that stack up with the CFL?

MLS isn’t just some glimmer anymore. It’s here and it’s about to get monumental. The league just did a rights deal to show games in Britain on SkySports. Just look at the stadiums being built for the game – specifically for soccer – across the continent. The CFL is going to be dwarfed by this sport in a few short years. Putting the Argos in a position where they can impede or impair the progress of TFC is just ludicrous.

[OgtheDim]

Just one point about that narrative

TSN bought into the CFL back in the 90's. Heavily.

Same with curling.

Their investment has nothing to do with losing hockey rights.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^^Infraction given. Unless Mulder himself tells us he's a paid lobbyist.

The two of you don't need exchanges this length in a thread. Take it to PM's if it's worth your while. Otherwise you'll get very few responses in what's suppose to be a group discussion.

Thanks Gentlemen.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just one point about that narrative

TSN bought into the CFL back in the 90's. Heavily.

Same with curling.

Their investment has nothing to do with losing hockey rights.

Also from that novella:

A lot of Baseball fans DO NOT like Rogers Centre and the addition of grass is a final step to try and get any natural feel to that concrete monolith.

PSS - If MLSE did such a great job on ACC why wouldn't one trust the same org to want the same level of quality for another 2 of their products? Unless your operating on Argos moving without becoming a part of MLSE. I think that's even less likely.

[Canary10]

Again on the narrative, and I may be wrong on this so someone please correct me if I am. But I thought MLSE were not involved in the building of the Air Canada Centre. Didn't the Raptors ownership build it, and MLSE bought it along with the Raptors?

[greatwhitenorf]

^^Infraction given. Unless Mulder himself tells us he's a paid lobbyist.

The two of you don't need exchanges this length in a thread. Take it to PM's if it's worth your while. Otherwise you'll get very few responses in what's suppose to be a group discussion.

Thanks Gentlemen.

Mulder confirmed that. First line of post #393. Yellow card rescinded, please.

[greatwhitenorf]

Canary: Tannenbaum. In on both sides of the equation.

[Canary10]

Canary: Tannenbaum. In on both sides of the equation.

Ahh, thanks. I just read MLSE bought it part way through and changed the design plans so the Leafs could share it.

[Mulder]

^^Infraction given. Unless Mulder himself tells us he's a paid lobbyist.

The two of you don't need exchanges this length in a thread. Take it to PM's if it's worth your while. Otherwise you'll get very few responses in what's suppose to be a group discussion.

Thanks Gentlemen.

Way to long, I've written a response I'll keep it to the below subsections of his rant.

That building has been a monstrous success since Day 1 and we haven’t once heard of the sort of problems plaguing Winnipeg and Hamilton’s stadiums. It’s because the expertise was there to ensure everything about the construction went by the book. That sort of fundamental management capability evidently doesn’t exist with certain CFL clubs. Why should anyone trust the Argos to have the sort of management that will bring sound judgement to BMO Field? They couldn’t even manage to keep a proper practice facility for years.

Again, 3 other people have commented that the problems facing these stadiums were not the CFL Clubs fault. Ticats, are not the experts in structural engineering, but you continually trying to pin design flaws on them. I'm really not sure why? This point has been dis-proven so many times it's getting old. You are wrong. Just admit it.

So you live in Ottawa. And you’re a paid lobbyist advocating that your city loves football when two separate versions of CFL clubs were so beloved they went bankrupt. The facts far outweigh your paid-for opinion.

That would assume you know the facts on why football teams folded in Ottawa in the first place.


Here's some heavy reading for you "Lonie Glieberman"

My brother-in-law supervises construction. Knows very well how Minto works. They’re the development company who are part of the Lansdowne consortium. Football is a loss leader in this project. The key element in the project was getting zoning approval to build to particular heights, density and usages in a desirable area, The Glebe(like leafy Leaside) where residents didn’t want it. The city held its nose and let it through. Now, developers have a gateway to approvals for similar projects in future. Jeff Hunt, another consortium member, really doesn’t care about the football. He just wanted free renovations to the hockey arena under the stands for his OHL 67s. Which got started, but never finished because public money ran out and now the arena is a bit of a dump, with its upper suites and media boxes uninhabitable because they’re condemned. Attendances have plummeted. What makes it even more intriguing is that proposals are now underway to build a new NHL arena in LeBreton Flats and the city isn’t putting another nickel into the Lansdowne arena.

Hahah! Jeff Hunt doesn't care about football? Oh man, Next time I talk to Jeff Hunt I'll tell him about this one. I have many friends who play hockey with his group been asked to sub in once and a while. This is hilarious. I never thought you'd really go so low to making up this stuff. But you do!


The boxes are to be completed in the OHL off-season, 67's attendance is on the rise again after being forced to play out in Kanata. And the proposal at LeBreton has nothing to do with *not another nickel* (Not sure where you got this one from?!?)


Also, It's probably a good idea for you to give me your brother-in-laws name so I can collaborate your story. Considering I'm in the construction world also, I may know him, also considering I did some work at Lansdowne (very minor traffic plan), I know and work with some of the Engineers who worked on the project, my brother in laws subtrade who also did work there. Ottawa's a small city despite it's population. Who knows, he could sit in my office!

So to sum up:
Hamilton stadium – delays, cost overuns, sub-contractor bankruptcies and liens to collect unpaid fees.

Not Ticats Fault (as pointed above)

Winnipeg – shoddy construction, lawsuits, possible shifting of women’s World Cup games.

Not BlueBombers Fault (as pointed out) Not sure where you are getting at "shifting" woman's world cup games. Considering your "sources" have been so wrong in the past.

Ottawa – CFL stadium built at public expense now seeing declining support, sub-structure issues under main stand with city money halted.

The "Substructure issues" were fixed, and you are making up stuff in regards to city money halted.

MLS isn’t just some glimmer anymore. It’s here and it’s about to get monumental. The league just did a rights deal to show games in Britain on SkySports. Just look at the stadiums being built for the game – specifically for soccer – across the continent. The CFL is going to be dwarfed by this sport in a few short years. Putting the Argos in a position where they can impede or impair the progress of TFC is just ludicrous.

I'm not making this a TFC vs Argos thing. Both teams can exist, and exist in the same facility. One has a massive support in the stands, the other a massive following that watches on TV. One team is trying to fix on of those problems by moving into a smaller, more fan friendly facility.
You seem to be banking on the hopes that Soccer in NA is going to explode "in a few short years", but that's something that has been going on for 30+ years.


I also have to wonder at your comment about "look at the stadiums being built for the game" When the CFL is about to finish up having every single one of their stadiums renovated or replaced, the only 2 left are Calgary & Toronto. You can expect a Calgary announcement in 2 weeks, and when the Argos move to BMO that's the last step.

[Petor]

Way to long, I've written a response I'll keep it to the below subsections of his rant.




Again, 3 other people have commented that the problems facing these stadiums were not the CFL Clubs fault. Ticats, are not the experts in structural engineering, but you continually trying to pin design flaws on them. I'm really not sure why? This point has been dis-proven so many times it's getting old. You are wrong. Just admit it.




That would assume you know the facts on why football teams folded in Ottawa in the first place.


Here's some heavy reading for you "Lonie Glieberman"







Hahah! Jeff Hunt doesn't care about football? Oh man, Next time I talk to Jeff Hunt I'll tell him about this one. I have many friends who play hockey with his group been asked to sub in once and a while. This is hilarious. I never thought you'd really go so low to making up this stuff. But you do!


The boxes are to be completed in the OHL off-season, 67's attendance is on the rise again after being forced to play out in Kanata. And the proposal at LeBreton has nothing to do with *not another nickel* (Not sure where you got this one from?!?)


Also, It's probably a good idea for you to give me your brother-in-laws name so I can collaborate your story. Considering I'm in the construction world also, I may know him, also considering I did some work at Lansdowne (very minor traffic plan), I know and work with some of the Engineers who worked on the project, my brother in laws subtrade who also did work there. Ottawa's a small city despite it's population. Who knows, he could sit in my office!




Not Ticats Fault (as pointed above)





Not BlueBombers Fault (as pointed out) Not sure where you are getting at "shifting" woman's world cup games. Considering your "sources" have been so wrong in the past.




The "Substructure issues" were fixed, and you are making up stuff in regards to city money halted.




I'm not making this a TFC vs Argos thing. Both teams can exist, and exist in the same facility. One has a massive support in the stands, the other a massive following that watches on TV. One team is trying to fix on of those problems by moving into a smaller, more fan friendly facility.
You seem to be banking on the hopes that Soccer in NA is going to explode "in a few short years", but that's something that has been going on for 30+ years.


I also have to wonder at your comment about "look at the stadiums being built for the game" When the CFL is about to finish up having every single one of their stadiums renovated or replaced, the only 2 left are Calgary & Toronto. You can expect a Calgary announcement in 2 weeks, and when the Argos move to BMO that's the last step.

Well, I pray that you are wrong.
We fought for grass and IF the Argos come in we are worse than back to square one.

If the Argos do come in I'll wait a season to see what happens.
My point of view, it will be worse than Houston which has a longer grass growing season.
I'll give up my seasons which I had to jump through hoops to get(ransom pack) and gladly get seasons for TFC2.
Argos can have BMO, just don't force me to watch TFC play on a lined cow pasture.

[Auzzy]

Just got this email from MLS: "A stadium of their own." It's about San Jose. So sad that we may soon be losing "our own" stadium. After all we & our team have invested in it.

And yes I know that Avaya Stadium will also be hosting the occasionally rugby match, just like BMO Field. That's not the same thing.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Do you get paid to monitor the net and spread linament over all the Argos ugly bits? 'Cause you are active.

Yes.

Let's back this up, please. I'm confused. Mulder, are you paid to be in here? Are your opinions paid for?

greatwhitenorf, your patience on this will be appreciated.

[Mulder]

Let's back this up, please. I'm confused. Mulder, are you paid to be in here? Are your opinions paid for?

greatwhitenorf, your patience on this will be appreciated.

It was a sarcastic answer to a question that should have never been asked in the first place.

No, I'm not paid to be here, and my opinions are my own.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It was a sarcastic answer to a question that should have never been asked in the first place.

No, I'm not paid to be here, and my opinions are my own.

Thank you for the clarification. I assumed as much initially but since it was brought up I had to ask.

[Soccerpro]

I don't understand why TFC ownership would accept the Argos at BMO. No great soccer player wants to play on turf and football will destroy a grass field.

[glaze]

I used to think that there was money to be made off the Argos.
But if there really was, wouldn't MLSE have just purchased the club already?
It isn't fair that Argos fans are caught in the middle of this, they deserve better than the Dome.

But this really could threaten TFC.
In theory, the Argos move in, try a year or two on the grass hybrid, field gets torn up, they switch to turf shortly after (like every other CFL franchise, and the majority of NFL clubs).
Notre Dame, Michigan, etc, have all gone artificial. You'd think that with their emphasis on tradition, if they could play on grass they would.

Secondly, due to the urgency, it is possible that MLSE does phase 3 renovations first, and maybe never gets around to building the roof.

The Argos pulled out of a deal with York, they pulled out of a deal with u of t/varsity, and they pulled out of BMO Field when it was first constructed.

Now, it seems that everyone outside of the Argos, like the league office, the mayor, etc, are putting the pressure on BMO to host them as some charity case. It's ridiculous.

[Pookie]

^ I don't think it is fair to say the Argos pulled out of BMO completely.

The stadium was built so that it could be expanded to CFL standards.

More importantly the original BMO agreement has a clause, labelled The Argos Clause, that spells out the financial obligations should that expansion occur.

If they were off the table, The Argos Clause wouldn't have been necessary.