This is the show of no-faith that those involved have with grass standing up to groundshare. There's been no talk of this possibility for over a year. If this goes ahead it looks like they think Desso is good enough.Originally Posted by Mulder
This is the show of no-faith that those involved have with grass standing up to groundshare. There's been no talk of this possibility for over a year. If this goes ahead it looks like they think Desso is good enough.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
That's exactly how I meant it.No dig intended, I love em both, too.
Amen.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Well, I'm talking about any issue with the grass, should the grass get diseased, burned, dead. Not just anything related with football.
The weight of the stands is still going to kill the at the points of contact, the lack of sunlight means the seats have to be pushed back as their default location.
That and it has been stated that it would be a turf endzones over concrete
I'm going to trust the guys with the engineering degrees.
Would you like to see my diploma ?
It just kills me we have the Pan Am games coming to Toronto a perfect opportunity for the Argos to have tried to piggy back a stadium out of it somehow and York would have been the perfect site especially with the subway going right in there, its almost a better site than BMO public transportation wise, they are building a temporary 12000 or so seat stadium why could the Argos not have worked out a deal to get a 20 000 seat permanent stadium, instead no no no, lets fuckup the soccer guys and get into BMO that's all this is, just a fucken joke!
Either York U people don't trust Argos/CFL to do business with after how they ditch York U and Canadian soccer people in the last minute to sign rent free deal with Rogers to play at Rogers Centre OR Argos/CFL probably didn't want to invest any money into York stadium to get Argos there.
Retractable seating over grass does work - check this video from about 1:00 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mbBJlFp6q0
Pan Am no doubt helped Tim Hortons and York University stadium get built.
York will be 12,500. I don't see why it couldn't have been doubled.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 03-18-2015 at 02:32 PM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
York only has 3,500 permanent seats. They are bringing in a shit-ton for the games
Are they complete construction/ using the new stands already?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Wow not bad at all not good enough for the Argos eh add a few more seats and voila, but no they have to come and bust our balls because it's just the way it is, what a joke!
Well you show me the math on the exact model they plan on using based on the survey and reports of BMO Field and the effects of the weight on the Grass (Deso) (and the drainage system underneath) and the cost effectiveness of that opposed to putting in Concrete and using Turf. And that there is no significant engineering or environmental issues on that both the short and long term costs are equal or in favour of Grass. (including increased ground crew work having to cut and repair those sections from damage)
Not to mention the effect on ticket sales for TFC when those seat lock up and you have to bring in temporary seats.
So if you want to claim an Engineering Degree makes you more qualified then the team of people that came up with the plan... show your work...
Redcoat - I'm purely calling out the claim.
Non Permanent seats can become permanent really quickly.
With a few million $. Which is why its not going to be done for the Argos. It probably still could if the right ownership group came in. But BMO is cheaper and has more potential then a York stadium.
Pretty sure it is complete - they are waiting to lay down the track and natural turf infield
Not only that but a BRAND NEW subway station is within a stones throw away.
That's fine but I personally don't care what they put under the stands for gridiron. I don't believe either will take the damage of play. Grass is likely to damage. They know this.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
From what I have seen , most Argo attenders drive.
Can't take the subway to Ajax.
I suppose, but they do take GO transit. Try going to Yorkdale on a Leafs or Blue Jays gameday, 905ers all over the place.
Sure - seats can.
But then you have all the washrooms, concessions, changing rooms etc that shoot that cost up
A) I never said I was more qualified than other engineers. I merely provided a proof of concept. And provided examples on how it could work. Don't put words in my mouth.
B) I've already proven it's possible based on loads other stadiums handle during concerts (something you have yet to discredit)
C) posted above video shows proof of how telescopic seating can work over grass
D) if you want to see my work, you are going to have to pay for it, my time isn't free.
407 & 400?? That's a pretty big couple of arteries to get there. They blew it.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Bottom line is York don't want a football stadium there. They would have to put artificial turf down for the Argos to play in the track stadium - even if it could be expanded.
Putting artificial turf down will kill the facility as a track venue because there is no IAAF approved artificial turf for javelins etc.
Guys,
Theres a lot of tension in this thread. It's a sensitive topic for everybody, but let's stop it with the little jabs at each other.
I'm going to step away... I know my short coming and I just don't see it worth it.. it isn't a done deal and this is pointless. And I have better things to do, then go through every point in that matter... I did it with Bio Chemistry years ago.. it is just a giant waste of time.
Last edited by Kaz; 03-18-2015 at 03:19 PM.
Whilst it works for natural turf (with admittedly a different type of retractable seating) - I have a feeling that it might be artificial turf
Not to mention a real man cave (although it has recently been filled in).
argos have already mentioned they are likely going with field turf endzones like the stadium in moncton so they can have onfield advertising.
Do you get paid to monitor the net and spread linament over all the Argos ugly bits? 'Cause you are active.
It was interesting to hear the new CFL commissioner talk about the need to generate new revenue streams. Even he knows what a fine line the CFL is walking. The most logical choice of revenue acquisition is to get more sponsors.
How come the Argos don't do business with Core Media? They are a neat little boutique commercial agency that does some very strategic work for many sports entities. They sell advertising - in-arena, editorial and broadcast. They do the game programs for the Jays, Leafs, Raptors, Toronto FC and the Ottawa Senators. They do outstanding work and have done so for years. They're a huge asset in directing commercial activity.
They're not involved with the Argos. Had one brief, unpleasant experience with them and said goodbye. One of their principals told me he'd never deal with them again. If there's a buck to be made bringing corporate and sporting clients together, these are the people to do it and they aren't interested in the CFL.
As for the NHL hockey deal, one need only look to where TV exec and hockey business weathervane John Shannon took his seat in the years prior to Rogers winning their 12-year deal. Everyone in the biz knew what was coming down, including TSN. That's why they moved early.
You can make all the excuses you want about the CFL but after all these many years, they still can't get it right. You can say they have no responsibility for the stadium problems we're seeing, but any club who is going to be a prime tenant in a facility of that magnitude has a duty and a care to seeing things go right. But this is where the CFL comes acropper.
The league has operated for so long either living on skin-thin profit margins, in red ink or outright receivership that it has to have a bearing on the calibre of people who get hired. It's kind of like that 'beggars-can't-be-choosers' thing. You mentioned Eric Tillman - hey, who knew about his lifestyle habits? Properly resourced and, quite frankly, less desperate clubs don't hire people like that.
One can only conclude that similar weaknesses exist within other clubs regarding oversight of the construction of their stadia.
This Ottawa situation isn't foreesable because of a 2-16 season. It's foreseeable because some good marketing people pumped every tire available to them to get bums on seats. Now that they've seen the bums on the field, this is the response. It will be worse next year.
Ottawa isn't a football town. The game's gone bankrupt twice there and will happen again. Family and friends all over Ottawa tell me they aren't giving up their ski passes to Edelweiss or Cascade nor green fees at Rivermead or July Bluesfest tickets to re-live that slow slide into oblivion.
You bring up the fact that the Beem is a city owned stadium. True, but again, in seeking to move in there, where are the Argos really going? From one second-string tenancy to another second-string tenancy that will not end well.
Instead of presenting ideas and suggestions for what might work elsewhere, the Argos and their fans are clinging like quivering barnacles to the hull of the first rescue vessel that floats by. I guess that's what decades of financial chaos, mismanagement and a shrivelling fan base will do for you.
If any club has been helped by moving into a "smaller, more football friendly stadium" then it would be Montreal. Of course, it only cost Montreal taxpayers $25 million to make it more football friendly. But at least it's their own stadium and they can properly celebrate their history and the sport there because they don't share that with a soccer team. That's the ideal situation and one we need to emulate here in Toronto.
Spending money on soccer at BMO Field is a sound investment. The game has grown massively and will only continue to do so. Federal immigration policies alone will ensure that. But first-hand evidence can be seen any weekday night from mid-April to mid-September, driving past parks like Lamoureux, McLevin, the Ashtonbee Reservoir, Esther Shiner, Earlscourt, Eglinton Flats, Centennial and countless others. There, you will see scores of kids of every age and ethnicity playing soccer, cheered on by parents who, if they aren't talking their kids soccer, they're talking every other kind of soccer.
That's what smart money sees and that's where smart money, and the smart people it attracts, is going. That's what MLSE saw when they looked through an in-house study not too many years back, trying to assess how to market hockey to a changing demographic.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 03-18-2015 at 04:43 PM.
The footprint of Varsity makes a CFL expansion totally impossible so even with an infusion of money, it can't be done. Also, the neighbours don't want it there.
York is another kettle of fish as there is a lot of available space. It could be done IF the money could be found. It would mean building a whole new stadium though as after the Pan-Ams are done and over with, almost all of the temp stands will be removed and what will be left is a facility seating 5000.
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