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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    They can play at Varsity Stadium or York U if they wanted to.
    Like Canary10, you're living in the past. Those are not realistic options for the Argos at this time. A large investment of taxpayer money would be required and I don't see that coming in anytime soon. BMO Field only requires $10M dollars.

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    they should of build the new tim hortons field at the miss/oakville border so that both the argos and the cats can share the stadium...the jets and giants share a stadium...

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    they should of build the new tim hortons field at the miss/oakville border so that both the argos and the cats can share the stadium...the jets and giants share a stadium...
    Again, in the past. Time to move forward. I would love to see someone come up with a realistic option. The only legitimate concern with the Argos moving in to BMO Field is the field conditions. I wish there was some way it could be tested before a deal is made but I don't see that happening. I just hope if the Argos move in to BMO Field it all works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    Like Canary10, you're living in the past. Those are not realistic options for the Argos at this time. A large investment of taxpayer money would be required and I don't see that coming in anytime soon. BMO Field only requires $10M dollars.
    No not really if Argos and University are willing to pay for it.

    Another option is moving into 905 region where it will be cheaper to build a stadium while they're able to get tax money from 905 cities and other government bodies who looking for votes. People forget that there's a demand in some 905 cities to build an outdoor stadium for community use and events.

    Moving into BMO field isn't long term solution for them if you think about it. They will still be treated 2nd class and probably get worst of dates (end of the year since BMO field is busy during summer months).

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    the argos have been living in the past for 100 yrs...i hear fort mcmurray is looking for a team

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    they should of build the new tim hortons field at the miss/oakville border so that both the argos and the cats can share the stadium...the jets and giants share a stadium...
    There isn't that many Argo fans in that region. Most of Argo fans come from North and East end of GTA.

    Out here in West GTA (Peel-Halton region), it's more Ti-Cats territory than Argos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    the argos have been living in the past for 100 yrs...i hear fort mcmurray is looking for a team
    They got nice Canadian football stadium

    BTW: It's pretty sad that some small town like Fort McMurray (which they didn't rely on Feds) can build a proper Canadian football stadium without CFL team while here in Southern Ontario, Argos can't build their proper Canadian football stadium or even contribute some money (like $10 million) for their own home. What a joke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Moving into BMO field isn't long term solution for them if you think about it. They will still be treated 2nd class and probably get worst of dates (end of the year since BMO field is busy during summer months).
    Well it is looking like moving in to BMO Field or folding for them as it doesn't look like Rogers will negotiate another lease agreement. So even if it is not a long term solution, it is still the better option for them. They will be organizing their schedule around about 25+ dates at BMO Field vs. 81+ at Rogers Centre so I'm sure that will work out fine.
    Last edited by Enterprise Captain; 03-18-2015 at 11:55 AM.

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    i drive 45min to 1 hr to get to a tfc game and i dont mind at all...if yr a true fan you will go...bottomline is the argos are coming to BMO...its such a shit deal for them,i dont get it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    Well it's looking like moving in to BMO Field or folding for them as it doesn't look like Rogers will negotiate another lease agreement. So even if it is not a long term solution, it's still the better option for them. They will be organizing their schedule around a lot less dates at BMO Field than at Rogers Centre so I'm sure that will work out fine.
    I'll take the fold option. That really is the most forward looking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    I wish there was some way it could be tested before a deal is made but I don't see that happening.
    I suggested it earlier in the thread but if this is going to go down, MLSE should run a simulation.

    Get a grass pitch that can fit soccer/CFL in Downsview, a high school or Uni, wherever. Have a gridiron and soccer team (Highschool, CIS, Academy teams etc) play multiple games on the pitch scheduled a few days apart over the course of 2-3 weeks in Sept/Oct/Nov time frame. See how the pitch holds up, can the lines be washed etc and give the groundcrew a chance to come up with solutions,test stuff out and see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    Well it is looking like moving in to BMO Field or folding for them as it doesn't look like Rogers will negotiate another lease agreement. So even if it is not a long term solution, it is still the better option for them. They will be organizing their schedule around about 25+ dates at BMO Field vs. 81+ at Rogers Centre so I'm sure that will work out fine.
    Well that's what media people are making it out to be which isn't true. Argos do have other option IF they're willing to contribute some money of building their own home.

    No, you're only factoring in TFC games not rest of soccer events we're going to see at BMO field (CMNT, International soccer) that will take up a lot of dates during summer and early fall. Add the fact grass needs time to recover and maintenance after each game, there isn't going to much dates available for Argos during summer months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I suggested it earlier in the thread but if this is going to go down, MLSE should run a simulation.

    Get a grass pitch that can fit soccer/CFL in Downsview, a high school or Uni, wherever. Have a gridiron and soccer team (Highschool, CIS, Academy teams etc) play multiple games on the pitch scheduled a few days apart over the course of 2-3 weeks in Sept/Oct/Nov time frame. See how the pitch holds up, can the lines be washed etc and give the groundcrew a chance to come up with solutions,test stuff out and see what happens.
    It has to be done close to BMO field or at least lake because lake effect and how weather affects turf.

    I personally believe MLSE going to end up regretting it in the end when turf maintenance fee adds up and becomes a huge expense for them.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Well that's what media people are making it out to be which isn't true. Argos do have other option IF they're willing to contribute some money of building their own home.

    No, you're only factoring in TFC games not rest of soccer events we're going to see at BMO field (CMNT, International soccer) that will take up a lot of dates during summer and early fall. Add the fact grass needs time to recover and maintenance after each game, there isn't going to much dates available for Argos during summer months.
    Why the assumption that argos would be secondary tenants? If mlse buys them then surely they wouldn't be secondary and/or the city forces a change?
    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sully View Post
    Why the assumption that argos would be secondary tenants? If mlse buys them then surely they wouldn't be secondary and/or the city forces a change?
    How many games do Argos play compare to TFC? How many people would they bring to BMO field compare to TFC?

    TFC are main tenant regardless whoever owns Argos because they bring most money to MLSE and City from using BMO field most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I'll take the fold option. That really is the most forward looking.
    The rivalry between some fans of different sports in Toronto is just stupid. I wonder if it's like this in other cities.

    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Well that's what media people are making it out to be which isn't true. Argos do have other option IF they're willing to contribute some money of building their own home.
    Braley isn't even willing to pay to market the team currently so I highly doubt he is going to spend the money for a new stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    IMO, if they go with a system like this, they should just extend the grass field all the way to back of the endzones. Roll out the stands just before TFC games. That way if there is any issues with grass they could just transplant some in house.

    Just a thought anyways.
    Ok I realize you are a CFL fan so you may not know what Grass is..

    See grass is this plant it is grain/weed like it lives in soil, takes energy from the sun, and likes to have the ability to grow.

    Now Big Metal Seats that roll out, and have 2,500 people sitting on it (ie 450,000 lbs). All of this is affected by gravity which causes it to move down. In Soil this is an issue because soil is not very dense and 450,000lbs plus the weight of the stands will compress the solid causing the seats to sink and causing damage to the grass. Not to mention the default configuration will likely be out (as it is less strain on the mechanisms to be pushed back 9-11 times a year vs 18-27 times) that means the Grass would have very little light and would not grow well.

    As such the area beneath the stands needs to be on concrete (a dense material that can when mixed properly handle the weight of the fans and the stands) Both Grass and Turf are also not super dense so even having grass on the concrete (even though it would die with nothing to root too and no drainage) would also cause issues and damage from the movement of the seats.

    As such you need a removable surface under the seats. That means that Turf which much like any other carpeting can be rolled up and stored away and laid out when needed on either end, is the best option.

    Leaving Grass of Soccer and carpet for the Argos.

  18. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    Braley isn't even willing to pay to market the team currently so I highly doubt he is going to spend the money for a new stadium.
    Then that's CFL problem not Toronto/taxpayer problem. Hard to build a stadium for a sports team when they don't want to pay any money at all. If they're serious about finding a home, then they need to put their big boy pants for once and actually do something about it. Blaming Toronto and asking tax payers to fully fund them a stadium or contribute money into BMO field is wrong. IF CFL is a big league like they claim to be, then prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sully View Post
    Why the assumption that argos would be secondary tenants? If mlse buys them then surely they wouldn't be secondary and/or the city forces a change?
    BMO Field is a 30,000 Soccer specific stadium.

    The CFL Configuration is 25,000 if it happens.. requires carpet at either end and grass in the middle, because the primary tenant plays on grass... a Frankensteined playing surface for the secondary tenant as well as the smaller capacity for the secondary tenant is a good sign they are the secondary tenant.

    I still hope they will never come it is a dumb place for them to be. They should go beg York to take them back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Ok I realize you are a CFL fan so you may not know what Grass is..

    See grass is this plant it is grain/weed like it lives in soil, takes energy from the sun, and likes to have the ability to grow.
    Is this condescending bullshit really necessary to make your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Then that's CFL problem not Toronto/taxpayer problem. Hard to build a stadium for a sports team when they don't want to pay any money at all. If they're serious about finding a home, then they need to put their big boy pants for once and actually do something about it. Blaming Toronto and asking tax payers to fully fund them a stadium or contribute money into BMO field is wrong. IF CFL is a big league like they claim to be, then prove it.
    I'm sure you were ok with the initial tax payer funds being put in to BMO Field to build the place but now you're not ok with another $10M to help out the Argos? Like I've said before the only legitimate concern is the field conditions. If that can be resolved then the Argos moving in is not an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post


    I'm sure you were ok with the initial tax payer funds being put in to BMO Field to building the place but now your not ok with another $10M to help out the Argos? Like I've said before the only legitimate concern is the field conditions. If that can be resolved then the Argos moving is not an issue.
    Yup, since MLSE (owners of TFC) didn't pay any money into original BMO field at all.

    Argos got plenty money in the past from taxpayers for their stadium (Sky Dome was built for them). Now they're asking more money? They had plenty of chances in the last decade to find their own home with taxpayer money but they ended up screwing that up and pissed off a lot of people. Now they want another stadium? Sorry, but Argos don't deserve anymore money from taxpayer and if they can't contribute $10 million into their new home, then you might as well fold them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Yup, since MLSE (owners of TFC) didn't pay any money into original BMO field at all.
    Did I say MLSE contributed $0 to the initial construction of BMO Field?

    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Argos got plenty money in the past from taxpayers for their stadium (Sky Dome was built for them). Now they're asking more money? They had plenty of chances in the last decade to find their own home with taxpayer money but they ended up screwing that up and pissed off a lot of people. Now they want another stadium? Sorry, but Argos don't deserve anymore money from taxpayer and if they can't contribute $10 million into their new home, then you might as well fold them.
    You're entitled to your opinion. I'm a season ticket holder for both teams and I want nothing more than for both to be successful on and off the field. I don't want the Argos moving in to BMO Field to effect TFC negatively but I also realize that it is most likely going to happen so I'm going to hope for the best. If a realistic plan could be made for both teams to have their own facilities I would love to see it but as things stand right now there isn't one.
    Last edited by Enterprise Captain; 03-18-2015 at 12:53 PM.

  23. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Where are these places?
    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    They can play at Varsity Stadium or York U if they wanted to. OSA field is too small to play Canadian football unless they expand field size.
    These are the references I was making. They blew it but fans of the Argos and so much as I know most students would have enjoyed a groundshare. My point was that there wasn't much outcry from those already using said stadia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Where are these places?
    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    They can play at Varsity Stadium or York U if they wanted to. OSA field is too small to play Canadian football unless they expand field size.
    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I suggested it earlier in the thread but if this is going to go down, MLSE should run a simulation.

    Get a grass pitch that can fit soccer/CFL in Downsview, a high school or Uni, wherever. Have a gridiron and soccer team (Highschool, CIS, Academy teams etc) play multiple games on the pitch scheduled a few days apart over the course of 2-3 weeks in Sept/Oct/Nov time frame. See how the pitch holds up, can the lines be washed etc and give the groundcrew a chance to come up with solutions,test stuff out and see what happens.
    This is a great idea to ensure fan support that would be assuming all the risk if it fails. No. I have no faith that the organization cares to invest in a surface and then perhaps eat the cost if it isn't good enough. Even so, Who would decide? Even with a disastrous result in our footy first eyes may be tolerable in others.

    They will simply make an announcement, most likely AFTER renewals that they are sure the new Desso surface will work and we are to trust what's never been done before. Nope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Ok I realize you are a CFL fan so you may not know what Grass is..

    See grass is this plant it is grain/weed like it lives in soil, takes energy from the sun, and likes to have the ability to grow.

    Now Big Metal Seats that roll out, and have 2,500 people sitting on it (ie 450,000 lbs). All of this is affected by gravity which causes it to move down. In Soil this is an issue because soil is not very dense and 450,000lbs plus the weight of the stands will compress the solid causing the seats to sink and causing damage to the grass. Not to mention the default configuration will likely be out (as it is less strain on the mechanisms to be pushed back 9-11 times a year vs 18-27 times) that means the Grass would have very little light and would not grow well.

    As such the area beneath the stands needs to be on concrete (a dense material that can when mixed properly handle the weight of the fans and the stands) Both Grass and Turf are also not super dense so even having grass on the concrete (even though it would die with nothing to root too and no drainage) would also cause issues and damage from the movement of the seats.

    As such you need a removable surface under the seats. That means that Turf which much like any other carpeting can be rolled up and stored away and laid out when needed on either end, is the best option.

    Leaving Grass of Soccer and carpet for the Argos.
    This is uncalled for. Leave the condescension out or infrations will be doled out.

    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
    Got one of these handy?



    Otherwise the Rogers Centre deal is long done. Looking forward the only realistic option for the Argos at this time is BMO Field.
    Uh oh! Have you traded in your phaser for the sonic screwdriver? I won't tell

    And really this attitude gets no leniency from soccer specific support/anti groundshare. Just because it may be too late doesn't put the responsibility at BMO's doors. So much opportunity squandered will see no sympathy from myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sully View Post
    Why the assumption that argos would be secondary tenants? If mlse buys them then surely they wouldn't be secondary and/or the city forces a change?
    This has become a point with me as well. That original contract is still just a piece of paper they can renegotiate.

    While it's highly unlikely that Argos would have primary scheduling, secondary is as big a concern to host Canada games. If we lose those FIFA dates due to pitch scheduling or quality its unacceptable.
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    MLSE doesn't like to lose money. They see an upward trend with MLS. They don't with the CFL. And, as I keep harping on, I don't see a good business case why one division partly owned by Bell should buy into a business who gets most of its revenue from another division mostly owned by Bell.

    I don't see the Argos being a primary tenant until TFC moves out of BMO into a new stadium up in Downsview some time around 2025.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Uh oh! Have you traded in your phaser for the sonic screwdriver? I won't tell
    You can like both, just like the Argos and TFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    And really this attitude gets no leniency from soccer specific support/anti groundshare. Just because it may be too late doesn't put the responsibility at BMO's doors. So much opportunity squandered will see no sympathy from myself.
    I hear you, being a fan of both teams I hear the arguments from both sides. If the York Stadium deal wasn't squandered TFC would probably be playing out of the Argos stadium. Like I said, I just hope everything works out of both teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Ok I realize you are a CFL fan so you may not know what Grass is..

    See grass is this plant it is grain/weed like it lives in soil, takes energy from the sun, and likes to have the ability to grow.

    Now Big Metal Seats that roll out, and have 2,500 people sitting on it (ie 450,000 lbs). All of this is affected by gravity which causes it to move down. In Soil this is an issue because soil is not very dense and 450,000lbs plus the weight of the stands will compress the solid causing the seats to sink and causing damage to the grass. Not to mention the default configuration will likely be out (as it is less strain on the mechanisms to be pushed back 9-11 times a year vs 18-27 times) that means the Grass would have very little light and would not grow well.

    As such the area beneath the stands needs to be on concrete (a dense material that can when mixed properly handle the weight of the fans and the stands) Both Grass and Turf are also not super dense so even having grass on the concrete (even though it would die with nothing to root too and no drainage) would also cause issues and damage from the movement of the seats.

    As such you need a removable surface under the seats. That means that Turf which much like any other carpeting can be rolled up and stored away and laid out when needed on either end, is the best option.

    Leaving Grass of Soccer and carpet for the Argos.
    Not quite.

    Removing your references to it likely being defaulted in the soccer position as "less strain on mechanisms" isn't really a great reason, i'm trying to outline how it would work.

    Your 450,000lbs (~50 metric tons) is not on a single point, but spread out between 1200m2 of CFL endzone (likely more). Even if the wheels for the telescopic seating are 5m apart. You would just have to make sure the soil has the bearing capacity for your above loads. (per area). or have your seating wheels closer to distribute the load. You also have lots of granular underneath soil layer for extra support As I've found from pictures from when grass was put in. There is also companies that sell special products that protect grass for stadium concerts, which could be used in this case.

    For a reference, U2's 360 Tour, which I believe visited Grass stadiums, weighted some 200+ tons. Seemed support it quite fine.
    Last edited by Mulder; 03-18-2015 at 01:34 PM.

 

 

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