Well you still have coaches salaries, travel costs and probably a few other overheads. But yeah, when all is said and done they are still likely profiting from the TV deal alone.Originally Posted by TFC Tifoso
Well you still have coaches salaries, travel costs and probably a few other overheads. But yeah, when all is said and done they are still likely profiting from the TV deal alone.
fair enough, but the point still stands.......nothing can really be compared to the NFL.....
So esentualy the Dome that was built for $570M as a multi purpose stadium is now a single use Stadia?I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. The stands won't be able to move from the baseball position during the baseball season if grass is installed at Rogers Centre. Therefore you can't play football there because the football field won't fit.
That I'll sit dormant for half the year?
God when did the market become a land of saving failing franchises?
Good post. The Blue Jays can't play in RC every weekend, but it actually makes me wonder, how many Argonaut home games are scheduled opposite of Blue Jay games to compete against each other? If I have time today I'll pull some data. There is a belief by many in the Argos world that the scheduling is because of Rogers with rumours around that for the past 3-4 seasons they've been given 10-11-12 dates to fit in 9 home games. (With majority coming in October)
I'm not sure why the Blue Jays see the Argo's as competition though, further proof to Rogers hostility towards the Argos happened a few years ago. A friend noticed that the Argo's championship banners and All-Time Argos Banners were gone during a Jays game. The Argos response was that Rogers / BlueJays didn't want competing logos in the stadium, the other incident happened during the 2012 Grey Cup run, Ricky Foley tweeted at the time that the Argos were denied access to the Blue Jays weight room. It's the media that is creating most of this hostility between sports properties, and you are right, it is pretty stupid and petty.
I questioned the integrity of MLSE being owned by media companies at the time, we had a perfect example in how Sportsnet consistently pumped the Blue Jays. I still don't agree with it because it creates at least the perception of being biased. We never hear about how much money the blue jays lose year after year? (despite that Ted himself said that he's lost about $300m since he bought the team) But the Argos losses are continually shoveled right infront, despite likely being a fraction of the Blue Jays losses.
Last edited by Mulder; 04-01-2015 at 09:09 AM.
From my understanding the grass will be installed each year just before the baseball season and removed after it's done. So the stadium can't be used for anything other than baseball during the baseball season.
The jays lose almost $20m a year according to forbes. This year they may lose $40M with the low C$. I don't know how Rogers shareholder continue to put up with it. They make the TFC and argos loses look like nothing.
And -- so what? Professional sports are businesses (why does that even need to be said?). Where does this weird notion come from that the Argos should be promoted by some other business that does not own them?
But it can and will be used for other events after baseball season. Concerts, trade shows and, of course, a Grey Cup game. People can blow all the sunshine and sugar crisp they want up our pantlegs about an outdoor Grey Cup at BMO Field, but this is the venue that, by far in terms of money and logistics, makes the most sense for such an event.
I believe the classic term for such activity is 'loss leader'.
It wouldn't take much to put them in the black. If a grass field makes them more attractive to free agents, they will find it easier to remain competitive and that surface will erase much of the fan-generated criticism about games in the dome. Solve those issues and they'll become more commercially attractive. But it still makes sense for Rogers under present conditions. Hard to see how Dave Braley and his Orlick company derive any benefit from running a floundering Argos franchise. A bit of a black eye, really.
Whether the roof is opened more often remains to be seen. That's a decision that isn't always made by the stadium staff. Pitchers like David Wells and Dave Stieb preferred it closed when they pitched and were heeded.
But they are promoted by other businesses that don't own them. Toronto Sun is an official media organ for the Argos. And TSN? Ex-Agros owners who prop them up like they still own them. And it isn't making the slightest difference at the gate nor is it gaining inroads with the under-30s. The NFL long ago gobbled up that generation of football fans.
Imagine if MLS was given this sort of coddled coverage? TFC wouldn't be swinging like a drunk on a lamp post.
I wasn't aware TFC is generating losses.
Yeah -- if they make a business deal to do so.
He used the incredibly weird term "biased", as though he thinks the Argos inherently deserve some specific large amount of attention from Rogers for no other reason other than they exist.
Every other failed or failing sport in Toronto -- arena football, lingerie football, major junior hockey, roller hockey, outdoor lacrosse, indoor soccer, stock car racing at The Ex, boxing, etc. -- could have complained and thrown a whiny temper tantrum to blame media for causing their failure by not paying as much attention to them as they thought they 'deserved'. C'est dommage. It's called capitalism. There's winners and losers, and most are losers, and over time some of the former winners become losers.
Last edited by Heepster; 04-01-2015 at 01:53 PM.
They generated one on Saturday
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Incorrect, I used the term 'biased' to explain media companies coverage of the products/content they own.
That's cause they decided to spend 130M on their roster. They are spending now to try and generate more revenue. There's nothing to be "put up with", they are investing. That team had TWICE the attendance when they were winning championships. This team needs a winner, the first pro club to do so will reap the rewards. If not, the losses are easily something the parent company can eat.
Uh, yeah -- how dare they promote their own product?
You also used terms like "hostility towards the Argos". What "hostility"? Rogers owns the building and owns the Blue Jays. The Argos are nothing but temporary tenants for as long as Rogers has chosen to continue the arrangement. They have no other responsibilities concerning the Argos.
Last edited by Heepster; 04-01-2015 at 03:00 PM.
Sorry, as I said, I expect more journalistic integrity from a division of a company that are supposed to be reporters. Not just an bloated advertising division that happens to have it's own channel.
It's like reading the Toronto Sun and blindly accepting what they say as correct.
You and I both know the Sun leans towards the right wing of the political spectrum and what views they are going to put out.
I'd just prefer the media not to own something they are reporting on.
I already pointed out the 'hostility', bad dates, removing logos that, for 20 years previous were no problem at all in the shared stadium. Who's going to get confused? That was the reasoning.
As Waggy said, the fans of sports teams are all on the same side, everybody should be cheering for the 'Toronto' in the teams name and not what comes after. Rogers actions by removing Toronto Argonauts logos was a clear sign of pitting different sports properties against each other.
And this is one of the biggest issues that comes when the monkey owns the organ grinder.
Do you understand sports is not journalism? It is a business.
"Shared stadium"? Nope. It is not "shared", any more than you and I would be "sharing" a house I buy where you rent the basement apartment. I'm not letting you use the other rooms, even if the previous owner did. And you're leaving when the lease expires if I want the basement for my mother.
I'm not going to debate with you if you are going to be hostile. Go Re-Read the last paragraph in my last post.
Forbes doesn't have the actual numbers though, they are just estimating. Let's keep in mind as well the broadcast deal may not be at market (given its not an arms length transaction) and they are a ratings powerhouse. It's no worse than the horrific NHL deal they signed sa short while ago.
I would up-vote this if I wasn't too cheap to pay for a membership.
And I am not sure why you cannot grasp the obvious fact that they CAN move the stands with natural grass, they just don't want to. They don't have to remove the motors that rotate the stands for grass to be installed. Its a choice. They are choosing not to risk damage to the grass, or a tiny part of it. But they could do that. And in fact they could make it work, if they wanted to.I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. The stands won't be able to move from the baseball position during the baseball season if grass is installed at Rogers Centre. Therefore you can't play football there because the football field won't fit.
The way the system currently works it probably would still require extensive modifications to the movable stands. Remember that they have to install some sort of drainage system too. Which means ripping up the entire field level, including those movable seats.
Someone would have to be an incredibly naīve rube if they turned on Leafs TV and expected to hear someone ranting about the incompetent MLSE ownership.
Yes. And the same would go for someone who did not recognize that Rogers is a publicly created monopoly. You and I cannot open a cable company, they are it. It should have been a rule that they cannot own channels or content, certainly could have been. Our public rights to a cable monopoly, our public rights to set the rules too.
Based on that Argos pic, why exactly did we have to build the new stand at BMO? Seems their crowds could easily fit into the current configuration.
I don't see why York was completely dismissed, other than the fact Braley is cheap and won't put anything into the team.
Hamilton played at Guelph for a season, and McMaster for most of last year.
Vancouver played 2 seasons at "empire field", which was all a temporary structure.
Great post,, but the days of the Argos getting free rent are long gone, in fact the Argos pay the highest rent in the CFL, at around 60,000 per game, with very little on concessions. The Argos get a whole 18 cents per beer .
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