Interesting.Originally Posted by Onyx
Interesting.
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
Thinking all Canadian match up would get over 1 million is delusional. MLS needs a national presence to get ratings above 500k. As Don Garber said at half time on TSN last night, there is no further expansion in Canada until the national presence improves along with deeper local media penetration.
The 2.9 million figure noted by Simmons is the number of total people who tuned in to some portion of the Argos/Ticats game. The average audience was 902k. The game before it (Esks vs Stamps) got 781k. Sunday's game between Bombers & Riders got 889k.
Well then that 1 million figure is based on total people.
If you use the ratio of 3 total gets your 1 average, that would mean the total audience for the last TFC Impact game - on a Saturday night in late August - was around 1/3 of a million.
The figure of 1 million might be feasible if the MLS game was that Labour Day early evening, which is the one night in the summer when people are almost all home, and was going up against no other sports at all.
Never going to happen but ensco's point is more about the timing then anything else.
Just for discussion purposes, suppose the Argos make a profit from the Grey Cup, why not invest that money in their own stadium shared with YorkU Lions...then they dont have to complain about the issues with getting to BMO Field...this is taking in to account that according to Steve Simmons that over 2.9 million folks were watching the Argos-TiCats game from the GTA...if they mostly have GTA viewership wouldnt it be easier to get them to come out to a game on the border of the 416/905? Just makes a lot more sense to me if they want to turn the team around...
The $10M the argos/grey cup make this year will probably go back into to paying off the stadium debt for the $140m expansion.
38k is TFC season average .. we got 116k for the rivalry game against montreal where TSN set the table for a big rating
This was an anomaly of course but sometimes strange things happen. The link is now dead btw.
http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=390161
Toronto, ON (March 12, 2012) – Saturday's highly-anticipated Major League Soccer (MLS) debut of Montreal Impact against Vancouver Whitecaps FC was the most-watched MLS game ever in Canada. Overnight data from BBM Canada confirms that an average audience of 541,000 viewers watched the all-Canadian match-up on TSN (288,000) and RDS (253,000).
Almost 2.5 million Canadians tuned in to catch some or all of the live MLS action on TSN and RDS.
MLS action continues this Saturday (March 17) on TSN, RDS, TSN Mobile TV, and Télé Mobile RDS with the Impact's home opener against Chicago Fire at Olympic Stadium. TSN soccer experts Luke Wileman and Jason deVos tee up the game during a special pre-game show at 1:30 p.m. ET.
TSN, along with RDS, are the official broadcasters of Major League Soccer (MLS) in Canada with a national broadcast package that includes 36 games featuring Montreal Impact, Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC. TSN also has live coverage of 22 games featuring U.S.-based teams, along with exclusive Canadian coverage of the MLS CUP Playoffs, the MLS Cup 2012 and the MLS ALL-STAR GAME.
Scumbag Steve Simmons should not be taken seriously on ANY-FUCKING-THING!!!!!
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
On the topic of ratings, 2.9m did tune in and they drew 902,000. According to Chris Zelcovich, that's the highest Ticat-Argos rated labour day game in 7 years. A 60% jump over the same game last year.
That's a big assumption.
I earn commissions and bonuses above the normal revenue my work generates and I don't automatically use it to pay down debts. How does one assume the Argos would do the same thing? Surely, they are paying their rent and that revenue is directed toward overall stadium improvement payments. What would be compelling them to shell out all or part of this bonus income?
Twice bankrupt, decades-long moneylosers and one of professional sports perpetual pityfucks, wouldn't they be better off using it to either recruit better talent, improve how they market themselves (Oh, I'd love to read details on how that happens) or just stick in a bank/pay dividends to the owners?
Plus, who says the Argos are responsible for any of the $140 million in stadium renovations anyway? As the stadium was always supposed to be convertible, I would suspect that MLSE would be responsible for altering the infrastructure of the stadium to make this possible. Additionally, the roofs would have been built for TFC anyway. Why would the Argos be responsible for that? Perhaps the dressing rooms at the most.
The Argos are responsible for paying the rent, whatever that may be, as charged by MLSE and as the Argos are not an MLSE property, they are probably not getting much of a discount (if any). Obviously some of that rent money would be directed by MLSE to cover the stadium renovations.
That stadium is to small, even if Argos only averaged 12,500 fans, the CFL really wants teams in 22k + stadiums minimum. Also people talk about Argos moving to downsview and areas like that, if people think exhibition is hard to get to, well downsview will be much tougher for any Argo fans who have been use to travelling to the old exhibition stadium, the sky dome, and now back to the exhibition. Argos have never played anywhere else but in the exhibition, Sky dome and varsity stadium. Why would you take them out now, I think it would be a nightmare for more fans than for those that might benefit from it. I actually think there is less Argo fans in the Northern parts of Toronto and northern suburbs then the south. If anything I think the east side suburbs might have the most Argo fans then anywhere else in the GTA.Nope
They did spend $5mil+ on their the new massive dressing room under the east stand IIRC
Have you actually set foot on the site or clapped eyeballs on the footprint of land available there?
There's a huge amount of space to build a proper football-first facility. The site is a track and field stadium that will never, ever, create a money-making scenario to justify the taxpayer expense to build it in the first place. Design new stands on the east side and end zones, with retractabilitiy built in, and we might see this failing, flailing franchise find one last decent shot at survival.
The best chance the Argos have for survival is to partner up with a Canadian university and the regional high schools to create a stadium that allows the Argos to have the sort of schedule their delicate, precious, travel-and-circumstance sensitive fans require, plus allow the club or league to showcase the history of football in Toronto. Plenty of parking space to have their tailgating rituals. There's even a fine new subway station being built for those with a proper urban aspect to their lives.
They've been bitching and bellyaching for a new home as an excuse for their falling attendances and now that they have it, they don't show up for all sorts of reasons - too hot, too much traffic, a concert happening nearby, a Jays game (only 81 of those to cope with) on the same day. A car race. And The EX. I'm sick of listening to the bullshit that spews out of this dwindling excuse of an overly-entitled fan base and the blowjob journalists that act as professional apologists for them.
Once, there was a time when the Argos and the CFL were relevant in Toronto. That relevancy vanished long ago and if you pay the merest attention to what's happening with demographics within this city, it's got no chance of coming back. Kids couldn't care less about the CFL. You couldn't pay them to care. Immigrants aren't remotely attracted to the sport.
That's the future of where life is going in this city. Stop trying to fight nature. Find another way in another place. And do it soon. If it doesn't work at York, at least a growing university will have a better stadium to work with going forward. And BMO Field can get back to fulfilling its initial mandate as a great showcase for soccer and let this flourishing sport get on with its relentless progress and development.
^ 902,000 tuned in to see a southern Ontario match up. Up over 60% for the same teams on the same day last year.
No chance of coming back eh?
Okaaay
Yes, Pookie. Between that and the Steve 'Reeves' Simmons rubdowns, it's all part of the perpetual pityfuck.
Nowhere in that process do they actually make money on an everyday basis or create committed new fans.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-09-2016 at 04:57 PM.
The majority would be Ti-Cat fans. By far. Remember, just a couple of years ago more Ti-Cat fans turned out to SkyDome for a Ti-Cat Argos playoff game then Argo fans.
Ratings does not = Argo support.
BINGO! That and the CFL has been pumping the "labour day classic" concept for a very long time now.
I grew up in the Hammer and was a STH for years, LOVED watching the Cats on the road on TV when it was possible. I don't know if this gives me a different perspective but now living in Toronto for a while I see terrible "in stadium" support for the Argos both at the Dome (I remember that playoff game well Og!) and now at BMO. I'm not saying that the team is dead nor do I wish them to fold/move to another city/province all together however, finding out where most of the people live and perhaps building closer to them in a shared University or highschool (or both) is a necessary thing in my eyes.
That's fine. I guess that means that the TiCats grew their fanbase by 60% in one year.
Either way, the narrative that CFL Football is dead in Southern Ontario doesn't meet with the facts. The Jays drew 920k through 1.4M for their games that week. 902k is not an insignificant number.
If MLS teams got that, I am sure that we would be happy with the state of the game...n'est pas?
Well they do create committed new fans. Their attendance is up and they will make money on the Grey Cup... which is a lot like MLSE making money on SUM... total investment.
Given that they share a tax payer funded stadium, I'm happy that the groundshare is working. Like you, I am happy that BMO's original mandate... a multi-use publicly funded stadium with the capacity to be converted to CFL football... has been fulfilled given all the public money that went into it.
It's working and I'm happy about that. Sorry that you aren't but if Soccer really is really full of relentless progress and development then maybe one day MLSE can save up enough pennies to stop renting and actually buy their own place. Might have to go in the suburbs though given the City owns this one
Last edited by Pookie; 09-09-2016 at 06:08 PM.
I don't think any of the people who participate in a Toronto FC forum give a flying fork about the Hamilton Ti-Cats audience. Good for them.
Attendance at Argonots games strongly suggests the CFL is withering away in the 416. So does prolonged, acute reluctance to advertise or commit to suites or premium seats at Argonots games. So does the disappearance of high school football programs. And the sheer and utter absence of any and all conversation by Joe Average about the team or the league within the confines of the city they play in.
People on my downtown street talk more about Paris St. Germain than they do the Argonots.
I take no joy in seeing their demise. But what in the name of Jim Andreotti are you doing spending hours each day propping up this steaming pile?
At least 2 of us do and have answered so after your last post.
No more like the teams were more competitive this season and Labour Day was the perfect storm of nothing else going on.
I'm not saying the number is not significant.
But suggesting its Argo support that is up is disingenuous.
Let's agree that the extra 60% had interest in CFL at heart and it is impossible to determine who, if any, those 60% were rooting for.
That's a headline grabbing grandiose statement that any and all conversation about the Argos is absent. Weren't folks complaining about all the air time they get?
Anyhow, I see the CFL as a Canadian tradition. Not mine. I've been to one game. But like Lacrosse (been to 1 Rock game too), I can appreciate that it is a part of our history and keeping a connection to our past is something I am for. I don't see the Argos and TFC as mutually exclusive just as supporting the Leafs doesn't mean that I can't also enjoy the Raptors.
Regardless, can you explain why you feel a sense of exclusive entitlement to BMO Field... a publicly funded facility ... when it was built with the "Argos Clause" in the original agreement? I'm sure you knew about the Clause. Did you forget it was there?
And what exactly about this ground share hasn't worked thus far? Do you see lines? Has the pitch been destroyed? You don't like the roof? Have TFC games been scheduled at 1:35pm on Tuesday afternoons? Did Mother Nature conjure up a blue sky that falls within the Argos branded colour spectrum that made you uncomfortable?
How much does the City make off the Argos using the publicly funded facility? So long as we're talking about better use of tax dollars, I'd better hear that all the disruption they cause is financially worthwhile. Otherwise go back to soccer and local rentals.
^ you can't have kids running on the pitch. What if it rains?
I'm sure the net effect of rental, concessions, and parking for 16,000 people on a night which would have been empty will be positive.
They need to find a home in a CIS football stadium, where they are already playing "football". Clearly it is daft for them to be sharing a facility with a soccer team.
I still believe that the Argos can eventually average decent crowds at BMO, but the on field product has to improve if they expect to rebuild a fan base in this city.
What kind of tradition? Financial disasters? Relentless cheating of fans? If you're a CFL fan, that's par for the course. Since the mid-'80s, the CFL teams in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa have each gone bankrupt twice. Were it not for the benevolence of Bob Young, Hamilton would surely have joined them at least once. Were it not for the enforced desperation of TSN, the whole lot of them would be belly up now.
Wow. What a tradition to call upon. Did you forget - were you even remotely aware - that it was there?
It makes an understatement out of calling the Argos a Perpetual Pityfuck.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-09-2016 at 09:54 PM.
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