That's foolishness.Originally Posted by ensco
That's foolishness.
Ugh... Let's see what the players say -- honestly. I bet the Vancouver Whitecaps still want to get out of BC Place ASAP & into the soccer-specific stadium that they want to build -- with grass. (The city & province wouldn't allow them the use of the land for a soccer stadium previously, as their use of BC Place was seen as part of the Olympics-related upgrade to BC Place.)
Among other things, there's still the issue of heat. Playing on artificial turf in Toronto in August is BRUTAL!!
There was another article from a US groundskeeper recently, that there's no reason for artificial turf, or for a bad grass field, especially at the pro level. Supposedly a grass field maintained using the latest knowledge and techniques, is not even more expensive over time than a top-quality plastic pitch. (Of course, CFL plus MLS in one stadium may be an exception -- I would like to see that guy interviewed specifically about our situation.)
Even the article says "Generally speaking, the allure of generating some extra revenue through the rental of plastic pitches for community uses explains why so many teams have now gone artificial. It is largely a financial decision." Largest city in Canada, 6-million population of the GTA, "National Soccer Stadium," I think grass should be possible. Not comparable to some tiny city in Scotland for example.
I'll quote the article again: "Nothing is better than a good grass pitch, but if it’s going to be like this then it’s better to play on artificial."
So let's have a good grass pitch, KTHXBAI!
Last edited by Auzzy; 06-01-2015 at 07:34 PM.
No. Thinking that MLSE spent $100M for soccer or football is foolishness.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Just because it looks like grass doesn't mean it plays like grass. They varied the colours in the new fake grasses to make them look more realistic but the bounce is still exxagerated and the "grass" will still grip your cleats and not let go like real grass. As long as these things do not change, artificial surfaces will be bad for the sport and bad for the health of the athletes.
Furthermore, most artificial surfaces are laid down either directly on concrete or with a thin underlay below it. As Danny Dichio told us, it took him twice as long to recover after a match on FieldTurf compared to a match on a grass field.
Looks can be deceiving.
With the advances they keep making with artificial turfs I would not be totally shocked to see more stadiums move to it within the next 10 years - especially those that face grass field challenges - such as in the case of a shared stadium or with places where weather presents challenges. The new stuff in Vancouver is very real in appearance with the longer blades of grass. And even over in the UK and Europe they seem to be making more and more use of the stuff for soccer as advances are made with it.
As pointed out in this article some clubs use it for their practice fields now and some league teams in European soccer have it in their stadiums now too.
I found this to be an interesting read. http://www.theguardian.com/football/...lastic-pitches
This picture from Joe MacCarthy in the Voyageurs forum shows just how grass-like looking the new stuff in Vancouver is.
Last edited by Blizzard; 06-01-2015 at 07:55 PM.
1. Music Events? Dawg, have you been to a concert b4...? there not gonna put ppl in the nosebleeds for a concert, so the expansion is defs not for that.
2. Lets say they get 3 outdoor games a year with added capacity to 50k, it would probs make the same money as TFC selling out 7 home games.
3. They wouldnt get 3 outdoor games anyway
4. Y do you think MLSE is investing so much money into TFC, if they're just being used to get events?
5. Dude in about 10 years MLS will be much bigger than NHL, and MLSE is beginning to understand that
Another article about issues with artificial turf:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...-plays-n220166
-self deleted-
Last edited by mistercorporate; 06-01-2015 at 08:24 PM.
This is right if you're talking about USA where MLS/soccer is getting more popular while NHL is on decline and already consider a minor pro league in the states that only few US markets care about NHL and hockey in general.
Obviously Canadians don't like hearing/reading that (no US interest = less Canadians playing pro hockey and NHL threat of folding), but reality is hockey/NHL just can't beat big 3 pro leagues while others (like MLS) are catching up to NHL.
^ Do you think MLS will catch up to any of the other three in the next 10 years in the USA?
Nope. I think MLS will eventually replace NHL and become part of big 4 unless USMNT become World Cup winners and Hispanic Americans (especially Mexican-Americans) embrace MLS as their own league then I could only see MLS challenging big 3.
Problem with NHL is hockey isn't played nationally in US while majority of players in NHL aren't Americans. MLS in the other hand, majority of players in the league are Americans while soccer played throughout nation. Problem with MLS right now is that MLS isn't best soccer league or even better league than Mexican league. But good news is that MLS is improving and money is there from ownership to go out to get best players possible to increase quality of the league.
Last edited by TFC07; 06-01-2015 at 09:37 PM.
Not sure thats accurate, Ive been going to music festivals the last few years as a vendor and there are more and more of them, smaller scale and more niche but the crowds seem bigger each year. An Oasis reunion tour in the UK would probably set all sorts of attendance records as well. That being said I cant see BMO being used for a great deal of concerts not with the Amphitheatre being nearby and a better venue, Ontario place grounds can accommodate multiple stages BMO cant
^I think you guys are both right.
There is a big emerging intersection of social and digital media, and big live events, and that is a big growing sector within a generally stagnant category.
That intersection is definitely a reason why MLSE's owners care about BMO.
http://think.storage.googleapis.com/...fographics.pdf
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
If you seriously think the Leafs will play 5 outdoor games a year, I really question the amount of brain cells you have. That simply will not happen and can't happen, the NHL gives teams the right to play outdoors...the Leafs just can't say were gonna play outdoors X amount of games.
and if teams like Milan and Inter can play on hybrid grass, I'm sure TFC can manage to as well
Leave out the personal attacks. You've been here long enough to know how things work. Feel free to edit your post.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
So I had one of the first "grass" turf fields installed near my house about a decade ago. It certainly isn't the same as the real stuff - however, for the first little while it plays pretty damn well. The issue is, once it wears down, you can't do much with it and it doesn't come back. You can only rake the pellets around so many times to thicken the blades, then it's pretty well a less bastardized form or the old school turf.
For the record I was at BC place on the weekend and i thought it was a good venue - playing surface aside (and the crappy home team).
It's not as low as you might think it is, as well the number of Americans playing in the NHL has grow quite substantially in the last 10-15 years.
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_Pla...ionalities.php
And it's early but the #1 pick in next years NHL Auston Matthews is a kid born in Scottsdale Arizona - not exactly known for being a hotbed of hockey
Vancouvers surface is crap. Glad it looks pretty and some of their fans don't care that it bounces and rolls different than it should but hey...what other option do they have?
They are still waiting on a stadium they wanted instead of their forced groundshare. So bushleague.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Yes, the whole reason we have this thread is because of a lack of venues so it's certainly a stagnant category. Investment seems very cautious (and, as it's Canada, there isn't any competition between companies to drive any new investment) so here we are.
Maybe not 5 games, but I could see 2 or three games played over a week span at BMO as some sort of Hockey Celebration week (you wouldn't want to leave the turf protection system and ice on the grass for too long). And though the NHL gives teams the right to play outdoors, do you really think that they'll say no to the Leafs? Toronto is also the home of the Hockey Hall of Fame, so maybe that gives them some special dispensation.
It would not happen every year people...players hate it and the NHLPA would not allow it, too many insurance issues with players getting hurt. Like I said, they would be lucky to get a couple games every 3-5 years..plus who cares, those games would be in Jan and TFC doesn't start playing for months after..
All we know for sure is that MLSE will try and get as much use out of BMO as possible.
like shopping at costco vs sq 1.
takes me twice as long to recover from the costco concrete
Outdoor hockey at BMO Field may or may not have have been the driving force behind the renovation project, but I don't doubt that it was an important factor in the board's decision to approve Leiweke's proposal. Even if the Leafs play a handful of outdoor games over the next several years, the revenue generated would go a long way towards offsetting a portion of the total cost of both phases of the renovation project.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 06-02-2015 at 08:58 AM.
I agree. At least two. Could easily see them branding it a Hall of Fame game against the Habs or something there maybe even with an old timers one too. Or even the All Star Game.
you can just look to suburban festivals (which historically were a snooze) to see how big live entertainment is becoming.
From Carasauga to Burlington Waterfront festival, the crowds are just massive.
But point is that isn't growing as much as soccer in US. Given huge Hispanic population (which is growing a lot faster than other communities in USA), it isn't hard to see where this thing is going. Hockey is niche sport at best (hockey is close to dead in Southern USA and you can see that with Southern American NHL teams struggling at the gates).
Hockey never be popular with your average American and NHL will never be a league that have more American players than foreign players (this matters a lot to Americans). The only thing that's keeping NHL on float in USA is Canadian NHL teams that are subsidize these American teams. Even then, who knows how long this will last when dollar keeps dropping. Eventually, NHL will have to cut their losses and fold couple of teams to survive in the long term.
MLS got all recipe to become successful league in USA (sport interest to demographic)
agreed, hocket is niche sport in the states similar to lacrosse (though i could see lacrosse (outdoor/indorr) explode if it was set up properly, they love them some college lacrosse down there)
I think MLS could be the 2nd best league in NA down the road next to the NFL.
What I personally believe will set it apart if it happens is if the USA & Canada (but mainly the US) gets the World Cup after Qatar. It'll help expansion and promote soccer in more markets where it might not be as prominent.
The NHL just doesn't make any sense...I said in another thread I'm still trying to figure out how do you get a point for losing
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