You need to go to a packers tailgateOriginally Posted by Justin10000
You need to go to a packers tailgate
I'm interested in people's in-person opinion of how the pitch is holding up. ML$E took the "wait and see" approach to protecting the pitch so I took the same approach to giving them my money for tickets. I said I'd wait and see for a year. So, from what I've read things are going well with the pitch? I've heard many people say "wait until the Argo's plan on a rainy day" but that hasn't happened so, so far perhaps they were right about things and if it continues I look forward to my first game under the roof. Keep the details coming guys.
Bones...
The pitch is fine. Nice and green with no pointy ball markings.
Yea, no issues so far.
And from the two home games I've been too so far this year, I see zero trace that the Argos even play at BMO.
No leftover/forgotten signage or banners...no programs on the ground, nothing.
So have all the Argos conspiracy theorists calmed down yet??
Until we get a good rain storm the same time the Argos play you cannot base a good opinion. 250-300 pounds on a wet surface cleats dug in where the majority of play will be in the middle of the field will be the telling tale. Playing on a dry surface of course the grass should be good. I want to see this before I decide.
Never.And from the two home games I've been too so far this year, I see zero trace that the Argos even play at BMO.
No leftover/forgotten signage or banners...no programs on the ground, nothing.
So have all the Argos conspiracy theorists calmed down yet??
We should always be on MLSE's ass otherwise they'll get lazy/cheap and slip.
This is the first time the Argos play here 2 weeks in a row but no home games for us. There are challenges for the grounds crew coming in the fall. If we were talking about failure already that grounds crew would be the height of amateur. They've had no real tests yet but to wash away lines.And from the two home games I've been too so far this year, I see zero trace that the Argos even play at BMO.
No leftover/forgotten signage or banners...no programs on the ground, nothing.
So have all the Argos conspiracy theorists calmed down yet??
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
This is it for me, make sure MLSE keeps the integrity of the surface at the forefront of their mind.
1 Good season as they may believe that the system and surface if flawless even though it could just have been luck with weather etc.
This Saturday looks to be their worst attended game yet...
How is that even possible... Saturday game, ex game, jays are on the road and not even playing at the same time.
I think its a bit of bad luck the entire city seems dead everyone is on vacation.
I'm guessing that a lot of people don't see The Ex as a positive reason to go to a game. Less and more expensive parking, crowds, traffic.
The Ex really starts on Friday, eh? sigh
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
And yet, the Toronto FC game scheduled for a week later (yes, against LIMPact) has been showing up on Ticketmaster as "not many left" for quite a few weeks now!!!!!!
The only TFC game that isn't showing "not many left" is the last one of the season at home to chicago.
Spot fcukin' on.
The Argos placement at BMO Field was always going to be subject to heavy scrutiny. It should be vigilantly maintained.
The crazy aspect of putting CFL football in a soccer stadium is that the core product is clearly on a long-term path to popularity and profit. The current and future demographics of Toronto dictate that soccer will be a major sport here for as long as anyone can foresee. The same could have been said back in the 70s and 80s when the Blizzard were drawing very decent crowds at CNE and Varsity stadiums. Sadly, the NASL was not a well enough run league for that to happen. MLS most certainly is.
Beyond MLS, the core product can include national teams games (our women outdraw the Argos) and summer friendlies with top foreign clubs. The visit of Real Madrid to play TFC was a huge success. The more recent and more routine Paris St. Germain-Benfica game also did well. BMO Field could easily see north of 30 soccer games each season. Chuck in one or two other events like a properly-timed rugby game, plus regular winter NHL games or one of them new stadium snowboarding events and theres plenty of money to be made without having to host a full CFL schedule.
There has never been a compelling business reason to put CFL games in there and there has always been a specious aspect to that after previous fiascos trying to get a new football/soccer stadium built. Soccer and football were never going to be compatible bed mates. But with people like Virtuous Mark Grimes and CFL sympathizer John Tory helping to push the agenda, the Argos were shuffled off to BMO with unfounded visions of great success.
Its not happening. Its not going to happen. Past excuses for the demise of the Argonauts are evaporating. Given the current menu of Toronto sports options, the CFL just isnt important enough for many Torontonians to get interested in, let alone excited about. In certain short-term situations, even the Marlies can be more compelling to many fans.
Maybe theyd have better luck playing at York U now, closer to their hinterland fan base in the -05s, where they could be principal tenant and get their ducks lined up enough to create a positive change. Under present circumstances, the Grey Cup is the only CFL event that will make money in Toronto and they could stage that event at the Beem without ever having to house the Argos there.
It could be an even better soccer venue without having to make ridiculous changes like completely losing the north stand and its potential growth - to accommodate a fading football franchise. The potential was more clearly visible than ever before for creating a proper soccer cauldron tight, engaging and heaving with atmosphere throughout the ground. And then we got all this silly Argos shit to deal with in a stadium that soccer interest alone caused to be built and grow.
Before the state of the pitch even comes into consideration, fans of TFC and soccer in general have every right to be skeptical, cynical and even spiteful.
I talked to a couple of long time Argos fans and they said that by the Argos going to BMO and being second fiddle in terms of tenancy and attendance has made them look worse in their eyes. It's like a complete backfire.
Interesting..have they said why the move to BMO made them look worse in their eyes?
I don't get that. They were treated waaaay worse by SkyDome with little to no signage. At BMO they have Argo signage and branding around the stadium and even Argo drink cups.
Maybe they thought, like a a lot of people, that the McGill Als reboot thing was instantly transferable and as it hasn't happened, they are looking for other scapegoats.
No, I think the Argos and the CFL have deep issues in this town that's going to take 5 years to turn around. And all the earnest appeal to millennial hipsters stuff isn't going to change that quickly (the beard ratio in the Argo ads is real high).
I'm of the opinion they need to go whole hog on the group culture that is found in other CFL cities. Go out and meet and listen to any fan who wants to discuss the experience. Then, through discounted tickets and incentives, get groups of like minded fans together and let them develop camaraderie, like the Box J Boys became in Hamilton over a number of years. They do it already with the family zone - how about a legends zone for old dudes and a Trailer Park Boys zone for people who like Rum and Cokes. Heck, I don't know but anything has to be better then plumping people down in a new stadium and expecting them to want to go just based on the on field product.
Yes, its going to cost them in ticket revenue but realistically, they need to develop a base of people who go because everybody else around them is going. The idea of charging based solely on where your seat sits in the stadium needs to take a back seat to the reality of developing a base. I know, paradigm shift and LT and Bell don't do that sort of thing. But, this is a doable and attainable approach, in my head.
The only rational I can think of is those other Argo fans were fine playing second fiddle to Baseball but playing second (or 4th fiddle) to soccer is a much worse feeling.
Even though it may be small, there is also an inconvenience factor for some of the people coming from the East via GO. The old SSHs I spoke with while taking the GO train home from work said they didn't like having to switch trains at Union coming from Pickering. Not all trains stop at the EX. There are quite a few before kickoff that run from Union, express to Clarkson which is useless for Argo fans. I'm sure there are other examples but my point here is that on top of the fact that the Argo fan base in the GTA is a fairly sensitive thing and adding even small inconveniences like extending travel may be the tipping point like the folks I spoke with for next year.
I think Og is spot on in that you CAN build a fan base and it takes years, maybe 5 or so but it will take some deep discounts and a change of thinking to make coming to the games traditional. I lived through the lean years at Ivor Wynne Stadium in the 80/90's. The Cats significantly discounted tickets for students including University and College students to get them into the tradition. Years later they have a decent following.
The Als reboot thing? That club doesn't generally make money playing there. They simply manage to lose an acceptably low amount for owner Robert Wettenhall. As ex-Als legend and former CFL commish Larry Smith said a few years back, it's unlikely Wettenhall will ever turn a profit or recoup the money he's lost over the years. It's not like we're seeing things improve for the Als.
Here's a quote from a Jack Todd column on the Alouettes 2014 playoff game against BC Lions:
"Where conference final games at the Olympic Stadium drew an average around 50,000 and semifinals near 30,000, attendance Sunday was barely half that: a dismal 15,107 — the smallest crowd since 1998, the first season after the Alouettes stopped playing their regular-season games at the Big O.
Although the nominal reason for playing the game downtown rather than at the Big O Sunday was the risk of a snow load on the Olympic Stadium roof (ahem!) the truth is that the club would have had difficulty selling enough tickets to justify a move to the larger stadium. "
The Impact have helped erode their importance and draw off corporate sponsors and media coverage.
As for CFL culture in other cities, it would seem to work best in places where there aren't a lot of other sports events to compete with the CFL. And that's great. But that won't happen in Toronto.
Population demographics, current and future, and trends in sports participation, where future fan bases are established, will work strongly against the Argonauts.
One playoff game against BC is hardly an example of what has been happening in Montreal. The move to McGill revitilised the fan base (well that and Antony Cavillo but shhhh...)
Regardless the point is the McGill thing was held onto by a lot of Argo fans as what was going to happen at BMO. And now that reality has shown this isn't going to happen, there is bound to be some despair by some at what it is going to take to make that team attractive to spectators again.
A friend of mine is from Winnipeg and loves the Blue Bombers. A group of us went to the last Argo game against Winnipeg and it was soooo boring. I heard several comments about this being their first and last time attending an Argos game. I won't attend any more games either, thank god my tickets were free that night.
It was more boring than a Blue Bombers game? Why is that? The Argos are crap? Or do the Blue Bombers do more in stadium?
This is the thing right here - CFL games are fucking boring as shit when compared to every other major sport in this city.
Personally I don't think this is an Argo's image thing - Clearly people in this city are not interested in the sport. That is a much bigger issue that i don't see being resolved with a move to BMO or even with time.
The commercial time outs they do are brutal. It's boring enough with all the stoppages in play, but they stop often for like 3-4 minutes and just stand around during those commercials.
I can't say the Argos are crap because I never really watch them play. I was merely talking about the in game experience that night. My friend loved it because her team won but the rest of were like 'meh' this is nothing special.
If you have to entertain the crowd with something other than the actual sport you are trying to sell, there is a serious problem beyond the performance of the team.
Ha. Agreed.
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