Originally Posted by Areathrasher
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Duly noted.I thought Mulder professed to be a soccer fan? Doesn't sound like it from this
Thanks Area
I wonder is he including all soccer fans? I know for a fact there are soccer fans in Vancouver that are down right happy about the present situation we're in.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I thought Mulder professed to be a soccer fan? Doesn't sound like it from this
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I challenge you on this statement, and dare you to show me how it *could* be worse than Rogers Centre
You likely haven't even looked at the Toronto Argonauts schedule the few seasons.
A quick synopsis for you
2014 - 4 Home games from June 26th to October 4th. (14 weeks) Including no home games from July 13th -> to August 12th (1 month) and Aug 18th -> Oct 4th (6 weeks)
2015 - 3 home games from the start of the season to Oct. (16 weeks) Their "Home" Opener isn't until August 8th.
I've already a slight analysis based on past TFC seasons, and fitting 5-6 between June & October would be no problem while still respecting at least 5 days for the grass to heal.
Is anything I posted at Riderfans wrong? Search Twitter, and there was also some posts here.
When the Argos won the Gray cup in 1983, the parade drew at least 100,000 people. Absolutely shut down the core. Bay Street was a mass of humanity and you couldn't move for blocks around.
When the Argos won the Gray cup in 2012, the parade turnout was in the hundreds. It barely slowed me down when I crossed the street. Can't blame that on the Rogers Centre, which was full (of mostly tourists) when they won the cup. The fact is that the Argos fan base is no longer in the 416 and no longer amongst fans under the age of 40. Nobody here ever talks about them. High school kids follow the NFL big time.
Toronto has outgrown the CFL. It's been that way for over two decades.
It can't provide anything close to a sufficient reward anymore to get people or sponsors to buy tickets or ads. The only reason this deal is going down is because Tanenbaum is lining up his ducks to bring the NFL to Toronto.
It's the National Soccer Stadium, not the Argo's stadium.
If Argos do come in they will have to take what is given.
Which surprised nobody.
I remember watching " the parade" after they won in 2012 and I thought it was sad , also I cannot remember anyone my age ever talking about the cf, the nfl is huge with me and everyone I know.
Last edited by mook-life; 04-29-2015 at 03:45 PM.
The main positive for me, in the not that distant future, will be T.O getting a NFL team and then folding the Argos. I don't care about the NFL team I would just like the Argos and CFL really, to die. Us proper football types bitch about the Eurosnobs we deal with but have you ever had to try to talk to a through and through CFL yuk yuk hillbilly? Their entire sporting lives take place in an alternate universe that makes sense to no one and is built on a heaping wad of delusion and madness.
When they bury this team and league I will celebrate. And I don't care how long it's been around. Polio had been around forever too and no one was sad to see it go.
It was one of the most sad and pathetic things I've witnessed in Toronto sports history. Dozens and dozens of Argo fans surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of pissed off people who couldn't stand to wait and crossed the street in the middle of the parade. Toronto's got bigger and better things to do.
I remember the sound of the Blue Jays winning their first World Series. Went out on the deck of my house on the Danforth and couldn't believe the noise of a city going berserk as Joe Carter 'touched 'em all'. If they Jays won the World Series this year, there's not the slightest doubt that the city would go totally apeshit again.
Leafs and Raptors? OMG. Need a week to cope with it.
TFC? There'd hardly be a schoolkid in class.
Argos? The 2012 parade clearly showed what it's like when 5 million people just don't care anymore.
Incredibly generalized and therefore disrespecting what you know to be a far less simple situation.
It's fine, though. Act how you want to elsewhere.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
hey mods...can you jus ban this guy...
it does bring doubt to his credibility and intentions on here.I thought Mulder professed to be a soccer fan? Doesn't sound like it from this
it is unfortunate.
Moderator
Fuck off and don't act like you're actually confused about where you went wrong. "The Soccer Fans" you speak of all have varying opinions and positions on this whole matter, and the remarks made about a conflict of interest was not only made by a grand total of three or four individuals, but were actually corrected by even more other soccer fans here.
Don't pull a stupid stunt like that again and come back shrugging your shoulders like you honestly don't know what you did wrong. You're very close to a ban for that bullshit of yours.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Ouch! Those are exact comments why people think us TFC and MLS fans are some of the most self-righteous, spoiled, ignorant fans in the sporting world! Total disrespect. I'm not sure how we can claim the CFL and Argo's will die, when we can only drum up 48000 viewers on TV. The Argo's are going to move to BMO, and will become a profitable team. They will have good attendance with strong TV numbers.
4another argo troll....why dont you and the other 4900 argo season ticket holders start yr own argo forum and talk argos...please
note....im sure mulder will correct me with in 10 min telling me they have 5500 season ticket holder.
Last edited by reggie; 04-29-2015 at 05:10 PM.
Seriously those supposed "benefits" to TFC of the Argos coming are so ridiculous. I just can't.
Moderator
^ Agreed. So silly. The negatives FAR outweigh the positives for TFC and it's fans. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Not cool Mulder.
There were more then one person on here who indicated there were other opinions on Grimes and Tory.
Not cool.
I am not impressed with people who go on a forum and engage saying one thing in order to report back to another. Go away.
Maybe so, I am just trying to pull some positives out of this situation
Other than being pissed about the whole thing, and somehow hoping Rogers can blow up the whole thing...
Can somebody please explain why Rogers is causing problems during negotiations? Wouldn't it be important for them to get the Argos out of the Rogers Centre so they can convert to grass & fix the seating configuration? I realize they don't make anything off of CFL broadcasts and therefore see them & TSN/Bell as competitors. But does Rogers somehow think that if they hold up these negotiations, the Argos will still clear out of Rogers Centre and somehow disappear from the market?
Normally I love to hate Rogers. But in the case of these negotiations, I wonder if Rogers is actually representing TFC and other soccer interests?? E.g., they see the risks to soccer due to the Argos that we also see. Perhaps they are worried about the Argos impacting the success & profit of TFC, which they partially own & broadcast via the SportsNet stations; as well as the success of other soccer usage at BMO, which they hope to broadcast.
Doesn't that seem like the most rational reason for Rogers to play hardball during negotiations? MLSE & TL seem to be too dense to really represent our interests -- as somebody said, they're like the dog that has seen a new squirrel to chase, wanting more stadium management $ from the Argos, and naively keeping their fingers crossed that it won't negatively affect what they already have, at least not too badly.
Last edited by Auzzy; 04-29-2015 at 05:24 PM.
I can't wait for that day too. Very well put.
Does Mulder really not realize that he was backstabbing us with that post on the CFL forum? What does he think about the shameful replies to his post? Will he defend TFC and soccer fans as vigorously on that forum, as he defends Argos and everything related here?
It's only hitting me now, how important the current negotiations actually are. Likely those are between CFL, Braley, Argos, Tanenbaum, MLSE, TSN/Bell, Rogers, with some involvement of the City. Before I was only thinking about the deadline, and whether it's Yes or No (Argos to BMO by 2016).
However you would want to get all details in writing now, before the Argos' spot at BMO Field is guaranteed. Rogers will know exactly what it's like to have the Argos squatting in "your" house, while not wanting to pay for much, and other problems that may have come up. TSN & Bell are interested in the broadcast numbers & advertising $ of the Argos, so their interests are probably quite far removed from TFC's interests.
These are the kinds of things that would need to be in a Argos BMO Field lease agreement. The kind of details that Grimes would want everyone to just skip over:
- Details of the additional reno costs for the Argos, and who is paying. (Rogers would not want MLSE to be on the hook for any of that.)
- Regular season scheduling formalities and priorities (between MLS & CFL).
- Pitch recovery time after CFL games.
- Visibility of CFL lines during soccer games.
- Scheduling and pitch recovery for playoffs and other sudden events.
- TL said verbally, no visible CFL/Argos logos on the pitch. But do CFL/Argos/Tanenebaum/TSN agree with that?
- Visibility of Argos/CFL logos and colours elsewhere in the stadium.
- Cost split for maintenance and repairs. If the Argos chew up the Desso turf within one season, who pays for replacement? Who decides that the pitch is bad enough to require replacement?
- Plus of course the actual lease and management costs for the Argos. TSN/Bell will want to keep those artificially low, as Argos have a hard time making money anyway.
So many similar questions. Having Tanenbaum and TSN/Bell in there as potential new owners of the Argos, while also being partial owners of MLSE, who manage BMO field & own TFC -- wow what a mess.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but fingers crossed that Rogers is fighting hard for TFC and other soccer interests as these details are ironed out?!!
Last edited by Auzzy; 04-29-2015 at 06:42 PM.
Totally agree.
My understanding of it so far, is Rogers isn't rolling over and giving Tannenbaum/Bell the sweetheart deal that they are requesting. And grimes solution is to try to just ban Rogers from the negotiating table, despite their stake in MLSE, and MLSE's agreement with the city in the operation of BMO.
It makes total sense. At the moment, Rogers would benefit however the deal is currently laid out. Collecting their share of MLSE's profits from the Argos games, in addition to retaining all revenue from naming rights, etc.
And that's just the monetary angle.
I truly don't believe they even care about field quality, turnover time, lines/ads on the pitch, etc.
Also, in terms of playing surface, Toronto doesn't have the best record when it comes to installing them. The rollout of the Jays new turf has been a nightmare. I'm sure they'll find a way to botch the switch to Grassmaster, and at what cost? They know they can just use it as an excuse to switch back to the cheaper and easier to maintain fieldturf (which every other CFL team plays on).
I would think for these reasons;
- Argos lose money. Have for many recent years and at a rent free stadium. Even when their attendances were good. Even when they averaged over 30K. Now they will pay rent. That's a loss as the accountant for the one buyer who walked away pointed out to be between $7-8M annually. These types of accountants don't screw this level of stuff up.
- Why would Rogers buy into something to lose money.
- Rogers has no horse in this. Bell can justify their share of the yearly loss because they have the TV deal and ad money to offset on field losses through programming.
- If I am Rogers why would I help my main competitor get local programming to compete against my channel and get to lose money while doing it.
That's my best theory and I hope they blow this up good. If they do I will drop Bell internet immediately and switch to Rogers. No question.
Don't forget, Larry T and Bell only really care about getting a deal done before the deadline because it saves them a bit of money doing Phase III in under Phase II. If they could save even more by telling Braley that there are costs are going up, and somehow have the price go down lower then the amount they will spend to do Phase III as Phase III, then that's a win.
Between that and Braley wanting to have part of the stadium named after him (seriously, I don't see any other way he could be seeking recognition), Braley is sooo shooting himself in the foot here.
One of the more interesting points on the irony map is that TSN (Bell) generally gets much higher ratings for MLS soccer than Sportsnet (Rogers).
I kind of wish Larry would buy TFC and leave MLSE out of it.
As for the stadium and frustrations, a lot of this is fuelled by fear. Argos fans won't be in your seat on TFC game days. It's about the grass. And while I wish MLSE would invest in its own soccer specific stadium, I think it can work based on Hull City (Football and Rugby) coexisting with season overlap and games played days apart on hybrid.
As for people being upset over the business deal, just re-read the pages here and it was pretty clear that it would come together. Even the extra grey cups to account for the $10M shortfall were discussed long before the last few days. It's sad but this is where our Club ownership clearly wanted to take us. No surprises. Just disappointment.
Just have to hang on to the idea that the hybrid surface can hold up like it does in Hull.
Last edited by Pookie; 04-29-2015 at 09:43 PM.
I think this is simple for Rogers: anything that is good for Bell and TSN, is bad for Rogers.
I also think this is also about the Rogers NHL deal. Something tells me that Bell/TSN is getting cut in on that deal as part of all this. Maybe because Rogers is taking an epic bath on that.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Larry and soccer, huh? I don't think he has the first clue about the game. About the money that might be made from it? Ah, well, that's a different matter.
I'm gonna stick with grass. Kentucky blue and Bermuda-Bent. If not at BMO Field, then I'll enjoy it at Pheasant's Run, Gormley Green, Wooden Sticks, Silver Lakes, The Pinestone, Don Valley and many other fine golf courses in the area.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 04-29-2015 at 09:57 PM.
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