Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Rotoomm]

Can someone name ONE benefit that TFC gets if the Argos move in?

1. A "close" to new stadium
2. Potentially new fans exposed to TFC culture... I.e. New and different people entering the stadium. (Judging by last weeks tv ratings this is desperately needed)
3. More merchandise sales to those new fans entering the stadium.
4. New state of the art technology (desso grass master), that the worlds largest and most valuable soccer franchise uses... If it's good enough for Real Madrid to use, it's sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

Can you counter those benefits?

When the Argo's move in, many more positives will arise.

[Still Kicking]

Can someone name ONE benefit that TFC gets if the Argos move in?

Every player on TFC gets to meet Matt Dunigan ...

[Petor]

We move from existential threat to working out the reality.

LOL! Ya, you got me in that one.
Well, the Argos are not part of my TFC reality.
I just wished that they would have announced their intentions before TFC season tickets went on sale.
Looks like that is not the MLSE way.

Being my age I should have seen the warning signs.

No canopy(roof) over the north stands, why?
If the Argos move in they will have to remove them to make the field CFL size.

The supporters month?
Never seen so much supporter ass kissing in TFC history.

Mayor Tory and Tim L both saying over and over that the current renos are for TFC only.
They only did it to replace the seats lost in the north stand.

[OgtheDim]

i fear this may be the beginning of many disagreements about MLSE, we all knew it was coming.

Neither Bell nor Rogers will give up to the other the cash cow known as the Leafs. They are both in it for the long haul, as proven by the willingness to go with a 5 year plan.

Neither Bell nor Rogers will give up to the other the potential cash cows known as the Raptors and TFC. It will take an implosion of their current businesses for either to walk away.

Frankly, the limited potential of the Argos, being bought here more as a preservation move then as an investment, leads me to believe that the Argos are not going to have much leverage at BMO, except when it comes to the Grey Cup.

MLSE will make more money off of the Man City friendly then Larry T and Bell will off of the Argos. 3 Friendlies like that in 3 years will make as much as 1 Grey Cup.

Look at it this way

2 Grey Cups in 10 years = 6 friendlies in 6 years

Again, the issue for me is the grass. I am not afraid of a losing operation somehow becoming more important to MLSE as a whole. The Grey Cup will take precedence, and that might be an issue for the grass in November.

It is that fear of losing out on the greater soccer revenue that is keeping MLSE from reinstalling turf.

That and part of me thinks Bell and Larry T will invest a bit more money in scouting out a gridiron specific stadium they can control, with a willingness to move outside of the 416. Rogers may not like that, which is maybe one reason why the negotiations are taking a bit of time - it would be in Rogers interest to have the Argo rental agreement last a good long time. Of course, if soccer takes off like it can in this town, the opportunity to build a 60K stadium at Downsview would be really tempting for MLSE, leaving the Argos to BMO.

I also think the Argos are going to be drawing 18K or less by 2020. The demographics for them is not good in this town.

[Petor]

1. A "close" to new stadium
2. Potentially new fans exposed to TFC culture... I.e. New and different people entering the stadium. (Judging by last weeks tv ratings this is desperately needed)
3. More merchandise sales to those new fans entering the stadium.
4. New state of the art technology (desso grass master), that the worlds largest and most valuable soccer franchise uses... If it's good enough for Real Madrid to use, it's sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

Can you counter those benefits?

When the Argo's move in, many more positives will arise.

Bullcrap!
Argo fans don't give a hoot about TFC, they see TFC as a barrier to BMO fiield.

[Rotoomm]

Question for fellow TFC and Canadian soccer fans... When we call TO huge on soccer and how big it will become, and we call BMO the National Soccer Stadium, why is it that the worlds largest women's soccer event doesn't even play in TO?

shoukd those titles therefore even exist?

[Pint]

1. A "close" to new stadium
2. Potentially new fans exposed to TFC culture... I.e. New and different people entering the stadium. (Judging by last weeks tv ratings this is desperately needed)
3. More merchandise sales to those new fans entering the stadium.
4. New state of the art technology (desso grass master), that the worlds largest and most valuable soccer franchise uses... If it's good enough for Real Madrid to use, it's sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

Can you counter those benefits?

When the Argo's move in, many more positives will arise.

1. We had a stadium that was only 8 years old and served us well. Non of the tfc fans were asking for more luxury boxes.
2. Absolutely no evidence of this happening, international friendlies with people who like soccer don't bring much response let alone two sports that attract very different crowds.
3. Again show me evidence this claim is even close to true.
4. I'll concede that Desso is likely already needed but don't know if it will hold up better with cfl football on it than our current grass does with just soccer.

[Petor]

Question for fellow TFC and Canadian soccer fans... When we call TO huge on soccer and how big it will become, and we call BMO the National Soccer Stadium, why is it that the worlds largest women's soccer event doesn't even play in TO?

shoukd those titles therefore even exist?

Pan Am games.

[ensco]

If Bell want this and Rogers stops it, what will Cope do?

Buy out Tanenbaum somehow.

This is the nitty gritty of the original deal that we never saw. Tanenbaum is per his deal the MLSE nominee to the NHL Board of Governors for 13 more years. Cope can make things very messy for Rogers if a Bell nominee takes that spot. Leafs would starting playing at lot of games on Saturday afternoons....

[Rotoomm]

1. We had a stadium that was only 8 years old and served us well. Non of the tfc fans were asking for more luxury boxes.
2. Absolutely no evidence of this happening, international friendlies with people who like soccer don't bring much response let alone two sports that attract very different crowds.
3. Again show me evidence this claim is even close to true.
4. I'll concede that Desso is likely already needed but don't know if it will hold up better with cfl football on it than our current grass does with just soccer.

1. Touché, some will agree, others would disagree... I can tell reading the BMO pics thread that some are excited for this stadium
2. Evidence is provided all around you.. When you go to a Leafs game, do you not see advertisements of Raptors, Rock, Markies? TFC banners/pictures/merchandise are going to be present around the stadium during Argo games.
3. Same as above
4. Hopefully the schedulers will be extremely conscious of each other's required playing conditions, but I believe (my opinion) that it can work.

[OgtheDim]

Pan Am games.

Specifically, the Deputy Mayor at the time, Joey Pantalone, who also chaired the Ex Board. He wanted absolutely nothing to interfere with the Pan Am games in fear of us losing out on a potential Olympic bid in the future. He ordered the City officials to not put in a bid to the CSA to be involved (Cities had to put in proposals to be involved with the WWC)

[Petor]

1. Touché, some will agree, others would disagree... I can tell reading the BMO pics thread that some are excited for this stadium
2. Evidence is provided all around you.. When you go to a Leafs game, do you not see advertisements of Raptors, Rock, Markies? TFC banners/pictures/merchandise are going to be present around the stadium during Argo games.
3. Same as above
4. Hopefully the schedulers will be extremely conscious of each other's required playing conditions, but I believe (my opinion) that it can work.

Would Argo fans like it if most of the summer games are on the road because of soccer games?
You think it's bad with the Jays at Rogers Centre.
There are National team games, Voyageurs Cup-CCl games and league games are not just on weekends, TFC have mid week games as well.

[JDMD]

Question for fellow TFC and Canadian soccer fans... When we call TO huge on soccer and how big it will become, and we call BMO the National Soccer Stadium, why is it that the worlds largest women's soccer event doesn't even play in TO?

shoukd those titles therefore even exist?

Where would they play? They couldn't play at BMO since the FIFA rules state that all games need to be played on the same surface types, and none of the other cities (aside from Montreal - but that's why they are playing at the O and not Saputo) have grass surfaced stadiums. The fact that the Pan Am games are on at the same time also takes Hamilton out of the equation. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with lack of demand or fan passion (or whatever the point is you are trying to make).

[Petor]

Specifically, the Deputy Mayor at the time, Joey Pantalone, who also chaired the Ex Board. He wanted absolutely nothing to interfere with the Pan Am games in fear of us losing out on a potential Olympic bid in the future. He ordered the City officials to not put in a bid to the CSA to be involved (Cities had to put in proposals to be involved with the WWC)

You also have to remember that the Parapan games follow the Pan Am games.

[Still Kicking]

1. A "close" to new stadium
2. Potentially new fans exposed to TFC culture... I.e. New and different people entering the stadium. (Judging by last weeks tv ratings this is desperately needed)
3. More merchandise sales to those new fans entering the stadium.
4. New state of the art technology (desso grass master), that the worlds largest and most valuable soccer franchise uses... If it's good enough for Real Madrid to use, it's sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

Can you counter those benefits?

When the Argo's move in, many more positives will arise.

Wow, the Blue Jays must be kicking themselves over the loss of those phantom many many positives you speak of....
Potential new fans????? I stopped being an Argo season ticket holder in 1993. I am willing to wager that more Ontario fans are season ticket holders for the Buffalo Bills than the Toronto Argos. The good ship Argo sailed and sunk in terms of North American football fans in this market ages ago. You think it is savvy marketing to seek to convert the few, living in the past, CFL loyalists of the GTA to try out this soccer team they have been ignoring for 8 years now??? Wow, do you think that if every person who owns an Argo jersey buys a TFC jersey the cash flow will......allow TFC to offer somebody an insulting raise?? btw I recall that Field Turf that preceded our present natural grass was "state of the art" technology. Nobody in TFC land wants to replace the present grass field...

The only positive I can drum up(pray I live long enough) is that this situation of Bell/TSN in love with Argos/CFL and Rogers/Sportsnet in love with Jays/NHL will lead to TFC being orphaned and sold to someone who gives a damn. Then the dream for National Soccer Stadium ll can begin...

[OgtheDim]

.... Leafs would starting playing at lot of games on Saturday afternoons....

The revenue potential for the Leafs themselves from Saturday night games is way more then Saturday afternoons. Any move like that would be detrimental to the MLSE bottom line.

[Rotoomm]

Wow, the Blue Jays must be kicking themselves over the loss of those phantom many many positives you speak of....
Potential new fans????? I stopped being an Argo season ticket holder in 1993. I am willing to wager that more Ontario fans are season ticket holders for the Buffalo Bills than the Toronto Argos. The good ship Argo sailed and sunk in terms of North American football fans in this market ages ago. You think it is savvy marketing to seek to convert the few, living in the past, CFL loyalists of the GTA to try out this soccer team they have been ignoring for 8 years now??? Wow, do you think that if every person who owns an Argo jersey buys a TFC jersey the cash flow will......allow TFC to offer somebody an insulting raise?? btw I recall that Field Turf that preceded our present natural grass was "state of the art" technology. Nobody in TFC land wants to replace the present grass field...

The only positive I can drum up(pray I live long enough) is that this situation of Bell/TSN in love with Argos/CFL and Rogers/Sportsnet in love with Jays/NHL will lead to TFC being orphaned and sold to someone who gives a damn. Then the dream for National Soccer Stadium ll can begin...

Tv ratings would suggest otherwise in regards to the good ship of the Argo's had sailed. It is an insulting comment to make that Argo fans are living in the past, it is normal people whom enjoy the game... And yes, by both franchises playin in the same stadium, some will have interest sparked for TFC/MLS soccer. An insulting raise? Ok... Marketing team may as well shut down, we don't want/need any new fans!! Come on, give your head a shake. Again, if desso is good enough for the largest, most valuable soccer franchise in the world, it sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

what would TFC attendance and overall interest be if they played in the Rogers centre over the past 8 years?

[Fort York Redcoat]

1. A "close" to new stadium
2. Potentially new fans exposed to TFC culture... I.e. New and different people entering the stadium. (Judging by last weeks tv ratings this is desperately needed)
3. More merchandise sales to those new fans entering the stadium.
4. New state of the art technology (desso grass master), that the worlds largest and most valuable soccer franchise uses... If it's good enough for Real Madrid to use, it's sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

Can you counter those benefits?

When the Argo's move in, many more positives will arise.

TFC got that stadium before the Argos. Still could. Not that I give a shit about it. I'd rather it stay the same.
The culture is at the matches not the stadium alone. I don't see Raptors culture at a Leafs game. They have to attend and the amount of newbies will be in the dozens. Not a trade off for a ruined pitch.
Merch. Dozens more people wearing their merch. Watching a shitty pitch.
Desso Grassmaster. Reenforced grass that helps keep it less shitty than regular grass that teams like Real Madrid don't have to worry about because they don't have gridiron playing on it. This point is all over this thread.

Benefits do not have to be countered. They need to be weighed. The detriment is always heavier.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Question for fellow TFC and Canadian soccer fans... When we call TO huge on soccer and how big it will become, and we call BMO the National Soccer Stadium, why is it that the worlds largest women's soccer event doesn't even play in TO?

shoukd those titles therefore even exist?

This is wading closely to trolling territory. Care to explain why?

Your answer is above.

[Beach_Red]

The revenue potential for the Leafs themselves from Saturday night games is way more then Saturday afternoons. Any move like that would be detrimental to the MLSE bottom line.

It does seem extreme to mess with the Leafs but it's complicated. The gate receipts wouldn't change, they'd still be sellouts. So, it's the TV ratings that would be affected. But Rogers have already paid for the TV rights so they would make less if the ratings fall and advertising rates go down. Low ratings might affect the price for the next contract, but maybe TSN (Bell) would get NHL rights then?

I don't watch Game of Thrones, but I understand it's something like this...

[Rotoomm]

This is wading closely to trolling territory. Care to explain why?

Your answer is above.

Apologies! No trolling intended... I honestly did not know the answer! Thanks to fellow TFC fans for explaining!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wow, the Blue Jays must be kicking themselves over the loss of those phantom many many positives you speak of....
Potential new fans????? I stopped being an Argo season ticket holder in 1993. I am willing to wager that more Ontario fans are season ticket holders for the Buffalo Bills than the Toronto Argos. The good ship Argo sailed and sunk in terms of North American football fans in this market ages ago. You think it is savvy marketing to seek to convert the few, living in the past, CFL loyalists of the GTA to try out this soccer team they have been ignoring for 8 years now??? Wow, do you think that if every person who owns an Argo jersey buys a TFC jersey the cash flow will......allow TFC to offer somebody an insulting raise?? btw I recall that Field Turf that preceded our present natural grass was "state of the art" technology. Nobody in TFC land wants to replace the present grass field...

The only positive I can drum up(pray I live long enough) is that this situation of Bell/TSN in love with Argos/CFL and Rogers/Sportsnet in love with Jays/NHL will lead to TFC being orphaned and sold to someone who gives a damn. Then the dream for National Soccer Stadium ll can begin...

Tv ratings would suggest otherwise in regards to the good ship of the Argo's had sailed. It is an insulting comment to make that Argo fans are living in the past, it is normal people whom enjoy the game... And yes, by both franchises playin in the same stadium, some will have interest sparked for TFC/MLS soccer. An insulting raise? Ok... Marketing team may as well shut down, we don't want/need any new fans!! Come on, give your head a shake. Again, if desso is good enough for the largest, most valuable soccer franchise in the world, it sure as sh** good enough for TFC.

what would TFC attendance and overall interest be if they played in the Rogers centre over the past 8 years?

SK the Argos and CFL are undisputedly successful on TV.

Roto and SK, desso grassmaster is a better product than just natural grass. It helps with strengthening what natural grass is mixed in with it. You know, like hair plugs.

Roto, as above, Desso is better, and good enough for ANY soccer OR gridiron full time tenant. To share between the two is unproven FULL TIME.

I do not want BMO Field to be the guinea pig.

[Pint]

1. Touché, some will agree, others would disagree... I can tell reading the BMO pics thread that some are excited for this stadium
2. Evidence is provided all around you.. When you go to a Leafs game, do you not see advertisements of Raptors, Rock, Markies? TFC banners/pictures/merchandise are going to be present around the stadium during Argo games.
3. Same as above
4. Hopefully the schedulers will be extremely conscious of each other's required playing conditions, but I believe (my opinion) that it can work.

Sure advertisements will be around the stadium but cross marketing of toronto sporting teams doesn't appear to work well. The non corporate fans at the acc are vastly different between the leafs and Raptors. Marlies don't draw well and are in town for strategic purposes. If promotion of tfc during a tfc-spurs game doesn't work well then I see no evidence of tfc and argos working at all. If anything it will create resentment between the fan bases that they have to see the other teams stuff at home games.

Scheduling will be very challenging, will the cfl make a schedule that takes into account potential tfc playoff games? How do we account for CCL mid week games? Will Argo fans be pissed if soccer lines are still on the field if they play Sunday after a saturday tfc game?

[Red CB Toronto]

Holding a football, John Tory today accepted Pinball Clemons’ ‪#‎YearOfSport‬ Challenge. He talked of making a sports resolution, guess that means this could be the Argos are coming to BMO Field.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Gridiron in the PanAm games.

[Areathrasher]

Just gonna leave this here...
http://www.riderfans.com/forum/showt...-a-game/page32

[Petor]

Just gonna leave this here...
http://www.riderfans.com/forum/showt...-a-game/page32

Sounds like the posters think that TFC fans have no rights.
Wrong, I have the right to drop my season tickets.

[zamperina]

I'm a Philadelphia Eagles Fan..They use Desso Grassmaster and play just about as many home games as the Argos...I can't upload the pics of the turf but just google it and you will see how bad the field looks.

Ya we are screwed!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm a Philadelphia Eagles Fan..They use Desso Grassmaster and play just about as many home games as the Argos...I can't upload the pics of the turf but just google it and you will see how bad the field looks.

Ya we are screwed!

I'm sure its good enough for the Eagles to get by but imagine if the Union played there. There is a college team trying to play in Chester as we speak. They are dealing with the same possibilities we are.

[Areathrasher]

I thought Mulder professed to be a soccer fan? Doesn't sound like it from this