Selling CFL to hipsters will work about as well as distributing Wal-Mart coupons in Yorkville. The product doesn't match the audience.
Is anyone daft enough to believe a bunch of urban individualists are going to suddenly be drawn to a rural, blue collar product, largely associated with their parents generation?
Face it, TFC already has that market segment (although I would be glad if they took a hike).
They go to Blue Jays games now, so I don't see why not.Originally Posted by ag futbol
It's even worst on CFL official forum where you got non-Argo CFL fans whining about TFC (even blaming us for Argos failures) and making every excuse possible for Argos while some of them bashing us for not being true Canadians because we don't support Argos and CFL. What a bunch of clowns. lol
Judging by their twitter and forum followers I think they got most of the 'bro' quota locked down and even they don't go to see the Argos obviously.
As for the hipsters that's a fail. Never work. Hipsters do like unpopular, kitchy things but they like to discover them organically. Having a big corporation ram something so shit down their throats isn't going to do the job.
What the Argos really needed was to get in a place like Varsity that's easy to get to and make it very small, like 15,000 and live with being a third tier sports entity. As it stands they're still a third tier entity but also a joke and that doesn't help ticket sales.
Fair point. I guess if you make it hopeless enough it's a reclamation project. I just think angling in that direction is a cheap ploy towards a youthful demographic with disposable income.
It's like saying "I don't have any ideal customers, so I'm going to go out and get them!" Easier said than done.
Business strategy is all about mixing the market with the characteristics of your product. Hence, why a 905 stadium is always mentioned (just makes more sense). Re-branding this thing to make it popular with hipsters will be like turning around the titanic. Huge potential waste of resources - I'd never approve that sort of strategy.
They need to carve out their own niche not go after one that's already heavily sought after.
Last edited by ag futbol; 07-15-2016 at 09:34 AM.
I think the Argos are in deep doo doo in this market. The reason TFC has done well with attendance, even in those early years, is because of the demographic. There are large pockets of immigrants in the GTA that care more for soccer than football....just look at the immigration numbers and countries...these are not folks that care for pointy ball or would want their kids playing pointy ball....I think the argos/cfl will have trouble succeeding in this market...they need to face reality.
I lived in Niagara Falls for many years, I still go there a lot. It is a 905 area but I never heard anyone talk about Argos. Once I saw a Tiger cats flag, and some times Buffalo Bills. I am talking about the whole region of Niagara (St. Catharines, Niagara Falls, Welland and ...).
There is a huge Italian community in Niagara, a lot of European flags during Euro or World Cup (mostly Italian). Maple leafs and Canada flags here and there. CFL fans in Hamilton region would go to Tiger cats. Even Tiger cats is not a big deal to tell you the truth. CFL changed their logo and adverting on Subway, trying to get in touch with younger generation. Just look at the twitter or facebook numbers. TFC has 289,000 +, Argos 52,000 + and Hamilton 100,000 +.
There was an article somewhere that a university prof said CFL is more popular than TFC in Toronto. Well buddy, I took a liberal course in university called "Critical Thinking". It had a chapter on inaccurate surveying. Who did u interview? Older people or a really crappy neighborhood?
CFL gets better TV rating and that's because so many people live in places across the country where there is nothing else to do.
The CFL is still pretty big in Western Canada. Toronto pointyball aficionados mostly watch NFL, but that's not true out west.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Its funny, i used to get into debates online with people from the prairies that insisted more people were into the Argos than TFC in the GTA. This week just underlines what has been obvious to logical, intelligent types for a long time. Most of the TV numbers for CFL and Argos games are the same aging 700,000 or so fan base of prairie dwellers and a number of toothless mullet wearing rednecks in Hamilton. Nobody in the GTA outside Durham gives two shites about hillbilly ball. As much as they may blame Torontonian sports fans and immigrants for not taking to their franchise the fact remains its hardcore football fans (NFL) who look down their noses at the CFL and the Argonots (the rest of us don't care about the difference as we're into other sports), the gap in the quality of play between the two products is like a chasm compared to the difference between the EPL and MLS. There is no live game replacement for the nonstop action and fun of a TFC game in this region. If the typical football fan wants to see top tier football thy can easily drive out to Buffalo or in Vancouver's case Seattle.
Last edited by mistercorporate; 07-15-2016 at 09:37 AM.
Fashion. Irony. Jocks and jock-dom. It is a huge marketing twist for gridiron to go hipster.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
you need to install some slack line walking setups first, have a few picnic baskets filled with $14 locally made vegan hotdogs topped foi gras
oh and some bocce ball courts for halftime
Seriously though - this is an issue with the sport and you nailed it right here.
The Top Football league is in the US. That's that's where the best of everything for the sport exists (players, coaches, training staff TV contracts etc). The CFL gave up a few years back and took the road of "we are the next best thing" and that doesn't sit well in this city.
Local Soccer teams didn't get the type of interest here for years. Not until we got a team in the top US division.
Argo fans need to get with the now and realise they are supporting a second tier product in a market that thrives to be in the top tier in every sport.
Do a marketing campaign showing a bearded offensive lineman fishing off the Leslie Spit and you might get em.
I wonder by how much really over TFC?
The fact is that most Argos fans like to watch on TV and have cable. A lot, and I mean a lot of TFC viewers watch through streams, which are uncounted. Look how many people on this board live and die by getting a good stream whereas most Argos fans think a stream is something nothing more than a small river than runs into a lake or large river.
I'd like to see a comparative number without streaming.
I like how somebody pointed out that 18K made it out for Duran Duran.
Guys, norf had it right with this one. (And hilariously done btw)
We've tread this so many times now. We know we've got a wounded animal here. I hope we're in the same boat and, like myself, we hope they see the mistake and correct it for both sets of fans. I don't need "I told you so's" or to say we saw this coming but more that I'm over fighting merit with other sports fans. I certainly don't need to have merit proven here. We know what we like and why.
Anyway, I'd like to hear more from Simmons and CFL journos in the coming weeks but one thing I remember
CFL season gets a shot in the arm when NFL season starts. People stop going to the cottage and start wanting to see live gridiron (well, gridiron people do)
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
400-800K per game for CFL - Less then 100K for TFC
Based on national numbers I expect as I don't see the hillbilly families in Saskatoon tuning in to see how the Quakes and TFC match is going. I would like to see a tight regional number, as in the area that would or could attend a live game. Only way to judge local popularity is to see the numbers in that radius.
Another strategy for the Argos. Tie into this crowd:
https://www.thestar.com/life/2016/07...-dwellers.html
If you can't make football and woodworking look like a natural connection, you're not trying very hard.
But where are those numbers coming from: Nationwide or the Local Market?
Meh, personally I think there's probably room for both teams. As long as it doesn't hurt the viewing experience for TFC they can do what they want.Guys, norf had it right with this one. (And hilariously done btw)
We've tread this so many times now. We know we've got a wounded animal here. I hope we're in the same boat and, like myself, we hope they see the mistake and correct it for both sets of fans. I don't need "I told you so's" or to say we saw this coming but more that I'm over fighting merit with other sports fans. I certainly don't need to have merit proven here. We know what we like and why.
Anyway, I'd like to hear more from Simmons and CFL journos in the coming weeks but one thing I remember
CFL season gets a shot in the arm when NFL season starts. People stop going to the cottage and start wanting to see live gridiron (well, gridiron people do
But come on, people want to revel a little bit here. Soccer fans in this country have had to justify their existence for quite some time (and still do in a lot of places). Watching this blow up in someone else's face is fun.
One thing you forgot to mention. How many kids of all nationalities have now grown up watching soccer on Saturday morning on either TSN or Sportsnet?
Nationwide for sure. The NHL playoffs only averaged 513K nationwide. I am sure the Argos numbers in the area I mentioned (GTA & 905) is low, probably TFC low or lower. For sure TFC doesn't draw many eyes outside of that area so that makes the comparison fair. That's all that matters when judging the Argos relevance in the market that would and could attend games since this is about their attendance and not TV.
Then the question would be how many of the people watching in the local area have interest in live games or can even get to BMO. My Dad watches CFL and the Argos all the time. He watches every game, every team but he has never, ever gone to a game. I offered to buy him tickets once and even go with to watch that shit with him and he wouldn't go. For him, at his age, going downtown is terrible and too much of hassle when he can watch in his own place from his chair. And he was in his 50's at the time.
This is true for sure but another factor is that since TFC took off in 2007, minus some ugly years in the middle, it's an event. Good atmosphere, noise, and fun so people wanted to be a part of that. Some were won over and now actually follow the team rather than the party and that's why the fan base is solid now. When I watched a few minutes of that Argos game after the TFC match ended I wasn't hit with the idea that this was the place to be for a good time and to have some fun. Those Argos marketing guys who want to market this to the same crowd as TFC will have their work cut out for them and I don't think showing a bunch of cars BBQ-ing at Ontario Place is going to be enough.
I miss the good ol days of the argos at the skydome
I was there for Mohammad Ali and all that stuff. Ugh...I miss the good ol days of the argos at the skydome
I am happy the Argo fans who go are getting the great experience of BMO - don't mess with the grass though. Now, if they want to talk about why people are not going, I gots me lots of advice. And yes, I got some schadenfreude going on when it comes to the trolls who told us so much crud over the last 18 months. But, advice is always free.
I said this way back when the Argos were first mentioned to move to BMO; this move will kill the franchise. They pitched this as the thing that will save them as the only reason people didn't go to see them was the Dome excuse. Now there are no legit excuses. It will will be laid bare for all to see. I know if I invested in them I'd be worried. This team is going to lose an assload of money this year unless they add the Grey Cup revenue in as Argos revenue.
Can we start a "marketing the Argos to Liberty Village" thread? You know, for the Argosfan.com interlopers on this board?
Yeah, Liberty Village's redneck hipsters are the ideal niche market, get at 'em! :
Just to tie into the game day experience from Caledon to a TFC home game (I would assume the same as an Argos game),
7:30 kickoff,
On a good day:
Leave the house 4:30pm
Arrive Port Credit GO 5:30pm
Go have a bite to eat in Port Credit (not paying the price to eat at BMO), catch the 6:41 pm train
Arrive at BMO 7:00pm
Game 120 minutes (factoring in extra time and getting out of stadium)
No way I catch the 9:20pm so it is the 9:50pm train (factoring the shit show getting to the westbound platform)
Arrive Port Credit 10:10pm
Arrive home at 11:10pm
Close to 7 hours for a TFC match, I would say I am pretty fucking dedicated as well as many others.
I see very few Argos supporters doing the same, so it is obvious that their TV viewership is greater than TFC, we (TFC supporters) are more dedicated and would rather watch the match live.
Posting Permissions
