Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[mowe]

It seems the Mens National team might be on the lookout for a new home after summer, away from BMO due to the potential change from grass to artificial. "Floro suggested that there was a “problem” that may preclude his team from using BMO Field – which will also host Gold Cup games – after this summer."

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ho-akindele-cl

That's not it at all. First of all we're sticking with grass. The hybrid stuff we're getting is just a better version. In fact he even said that WCQ games will only be on grass, so that leaves BMO and Saputo as the only options.

It's likely about the renewal of CSA's contract with BMO Field or something. In the actual interview they said it could be availability for the November game, they weren't exactly sure. We likely have the midweek dates booked off for playoffs (as all teams do).

[evermorian]

That's not it at all. First of all we're sticking with grass. The hybrid stuff we're getting is just a better version. In fact he even said that WCQ games will only be on grass, so that leaves BMO and Saputo as the only options.

It's likely about the renewal of CSA's contract with BMO Field or something. In the actual interview they said it could be availability for the November game, they weren't exactly sure. We likely have the midweek dates booked off for playoffs (as all teams do).

Oops, I did read it a bit wrong. I got confused over his talk of preferring natural grass over artificial turf for the most important games "“But if the game is very, very important to qualify, to achieve an important aim, we need to choose the best grass, if we want to win the game." It does, however, pose a dire warning to the future of BMO as Canada's national soccer home if it does convert to hybrid or artificial surface. If Floro deems the playing surface inferior, then he may start looking elsewhere for games. Like the article pointed out though, there are a lack of options in terms of grass fields.

[king10]

Hybrid wouldnt be an issue. If the best teams in the world play on it im sure that meets floros conditions.

Full artificial would be shite. But mlse has said time and time again artificial wont be happening.

Regardless the reason BMO isnt available has to do with construction starting up again in november which is when round 4 of wcq starts up. The second window for round 4 is in march and BMO will still be unavailable. This is what he meant by its availability. It isnt because the canMNT doesnt want to play on turf, which bmo wouldnt even have in the fall or march anyways.

Wcq dates can be found here.
http://www.concacaf.com/article/conc...-on-january-15

If tfc makes the playoffs they may be able to hold off on construction and host the november games at Bmo provided there are free dates for tfc and the canmnt. But im sure fifa will want the venues confirmed a good amount ahead of time so there is uncertainty for sure with regards to construction start dates.

The march wcq will for sure not be at bmo and most likely too early for games at Saputo. The canmnt may finally make its long awaited return to vancouver and play at bc place. Other options are rogers centre and olympic stadium. All other outdoor venues may be too cold in march. Especially on the prairies. Also the march game will more than likely be played on turf.

I agree with the CSA that friendlies should be rotated around the country and they should be open to playing on turf for friendlies only. But wcq should be at bmo (when not under construction)on grass where the CSA has developed strong fan support with the supporters group and where the players prefer the grass surface.

[kodiakTFC]

Hybrid wouldnt be an issue. If the best teams in the world play on it im sure that meets floros conditions.

Full artificial would be shite. But mlse has said time and time again artificial wont be happening.

Regardless the reason BMO isnt available has to do with construction starting up again in november which is when round 4 of wcq starts up. The second window for round 4 is in march and BMO will still be unavailable. This is what he meant by its availability. It isnt because the canMNT doesnt want to play on turf, which bmo wouldnt even have in the fall or march anyways.

Wcq dates can be found here.
http://www.concacaf.com/article/conc...-on-january-15

If tfc makes the playoffs they may be able to hold off on construction and host the november games at Bmo provided there are free dates for tfc and the canmnt. But im sure fifa will want the venues confirmed a good amount ahead of time so there is uncertainty for sure with regards to construction start dates.

The march wcq will for sure not be at bmo and most likely too early for games at Saputo. The canmnt may finally make its long awaited return to vancouver and play at bc place. Other options are rogers centre and olympic stadium. All other outdoor venues may be too cold in march. Especially on the prairies. Also the march game will more than likely be played on turf.

I agree with the CSA that friendlies should be rotated around the country and they should be open to playing on turf for friendlies only. But wcq should be at bmo (when not under construction)on grass where the CSA has developed strong fan support with the supporters group and where the players prefer the grass surface.

Good post. Pretty much sums it all up. I wonder where this March game will take place. I'd assume Vancouver could get 15,000+ for a Canadian match.

[OgtheDim]

Armen chimed in with some clarification notes

Armen Bedakian @ArmenBedakian · 14h 14 hours ago

Some clarification Re: BMO FIELD - no conflicts that would force #CanMNT to choose a different venue than BMO Field for the Sept. round.


Armen Bedakian @ArmenBedakian · 14h 14 hours ago

But would likely look at other options for the November match. #CanMNT

[greatwhitenorf]

Toronto should be out of the equation for any of Canada's crucial World Cup qualifying games. Far too easy for rival fans to get to and for rival nations to play in.

Given its outstanding record - and the logistical hassles of getting there - one site stands head and shoulders above all: King George V Park in St. John's Newfoundland.



And, yes, my darlings, I was there. I'm in the video.

[king10]

Toronto should be out of the equation for any of Canada's crucial World Cup qualifying games. Far too easy for rival fans to get to and for rival nations to play in.

Given its outstanding record - and the logistical hassles of getting there - one site stands head and shoulders above all: King George V Park in St. John's Newfoundland.



And, yes, my darlings, I was there. I'm in the video.

no way, Toronto has made significant strides in building up Canadian fan support with Canadian supporters sections. If rival fans want to go watch a game in Canada that bad, they'll make the trip to any location.

They aren't going to bail on toronto now. The CSA has a relationship with the voyageurs in Toronto and supporter group fan support is strong. Not to mention most direct flights from europe come through toronto. Last wcq round was very pro Canadian, even when we had games against Jamaica in the past 5 years its been pro canada. That 2010 wcq game against Honduras in MTL was a joke though, was an away game for us.

King George park is turf now, and has nowhere near the facilities to host a WCQ match.

This is King George park today..... the CSA isn't leaving bmo for this. Heck if the CSA wants a place thats more difficult to get to and provides a harsh climate, they're going to go to Regina and its shiny new $280 million stadium, not a set of metal bleachers around a community field.



ps. I am very very jealous you were at that historic game in St John's. What a magical time that was for CDN soccer.

[greatwhitenorf]

I don't care what you think, Sparky.

Because if you had your way, and Soccer Canada had conformed to the norm, to your limited vision, the Hondurans would never have had their equipment bags go missing en route to St. John's and they never would have had to play with bad blisters from new shoes, wearing makeshift kits for that crucial game.

And I wouldn't have all my great memories of enjoying the St. John's driving range over water with floating golf balls and a retrieval crew weariong hip-waders and wielding fish nets, of touring the unbelievable speakeasy nightlife of St. John's after that great win.

Or of seeing Canada play France, Russia and Hungary in Leon and Irapuato, of visiting the fabulous Adidas hospitality mansion in Mexico City's Lomas Chapultepec, of tearassin' around the Zona Rosa in Jeeps with the Camel cigarettes girls we met over Margaritas at that mansion, of getting Diego Maradona to sign two mini soccer balls when we crossed paths in a Mexico City steakhouse - which, years later, my son learned to play soccer with in the back yard until those autographs were long worn off - of walking into the courtyard of a one-star Irapuato hotel and seeing the Russian team's red CCCP game shirts hanging out to dry over balcony railings after their players had to clean their own kits and seeing a couple of heavy KGB-looking guys make it clear that if we tried to nick one or two there'd be serious hell to pay.

And of getting to tell that smug, insufferable wretch Michel Platini to his face to 'mange la merde'.

You just carry on spouting logic.

You just keep on coloring inside the lines.

But mostly, Johnny TiCat, it'd be nice it you just parked it for a while.

[greatwhitenorf]

double post

[OgtheDim]

I find that reasoning, "what happened in the past is a good idea for now" somewhat ironic, given this thread is all about the moving of a CFL team to BMO cause some people feel "what happened in the past is a good idea for now."

[Beach_Red]

I find that reasoning, "what happened in the past is a good idea for now" somewhat ironic, given this thread is all about the moving of a CFL team to BMO cause some people feel "what happened in the past is a good idea for now."

It's the difference between history and heritage.

[ag futbol]

Toronto should be out of the equation for any of Canada's crucial World Cup qualifying games. Far too easy for rival fans to get to and for rival nations to play in.

Given its outstanding record - and the logistical hassles of getting there - one site stands head and shoulders above all: King George V Park in St. John's Newfoundland.



And, yes, my darlings, I was there. I'm in the video.

The players preferred choice is Toronto. The obvious choices (Vancouver, Montreal) should be next. This remote location stuff is looked at too romantically. Chile brought more vocal fans to Edmonton for the u20s than canada had for a home game. It's no silver bullet.

They need to grow interest in the game, not squirrel away in some other part of the country where soccer is talked about like a passing fancy of pansy metrosexuals.

[BuSaPuNk]

The players preferred choice is Toronto. The obvious choices (Vancouver, Montreal) should be next. This remote location stuff is looked at too romantically. Chile brought more vocal fans to Edmonton for the u20s than canada had for a home game. It's no silver bullet.

They need to grow interest in the game, not squirrel away in some other part of the country where soccer is talked about like a passing fancy of pansy metrosexuals.

Yep its all about building that interest in support. Look at the Jamaica game for example. BMO was bouncing all game long.

The more the atmosphere gets better the more people will want to go. See TFC circa 2007-2010. The supporters need to create that atmosphere so the regulars see it as a special thing to see the national team.

That responsibility is on all Canada supporters to create that and draw in new blood.

[nfitz]

It seems the Mens National team might be on the lookout for a new home after summer, away from BMO due to the potential change from grass to artificial. "Floro suggested that there was a “problem” that may preclude his team from using BMO Field – which will also host Gold Cup games – after this summer."

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ho-akindele-cl

Uh ... what? It has nothing to do with artificial grass. There are are no plans to install artifical grass. Nor does that article say that.

That's been taken completely out of context. CSA has already clarified that the next World Cup qualifier (Third Round) isn't effected (early September 2015).

However, the first pair of matchdays for the fourth round (November 9-17 2015) and the second pair (March 21-29 2016) are when BMO Field is going to be closed for the Phase 2 construction. So this problem may preclude the use of BMO Field during November 2015 and March 2016.

Please don't start rumours.

[king10]

I don't care what you think, Sparky.

Because if you had your way, and Soccer Canada had conformed to the norm, to your limited vision, the Hondurans would never have had their equipment bags go missing en route to St. John's and they never would have had to play with bad blisters from new shoes, wearing makeshift kits for that crucial game.

And I wouldn't have all my great memories of enjoying the St. John's driving range over water with floating golf balls and a retrieval crew weariong hip-waders and wielding fish nets, of touring the unbelievable speakeasy nightlife of St. John's after that great win.

Or of seeing Canada play France, Russia and Hungary in Leon and Irapuato, of visiting the fabulous Adidas hospitality mansion in Mexico City's Lomas Chapultepec, of tearassin' around the Zona Rosa in Jeeps with the Camel cigarettes girls we met over Margaritas at that mansion, of getting Diego Maradona to sign two mini soccer balls when we crossed paths in a Mexico City steakhouse - which, years later, my son learned to play soccer with in the back yard until those autographs were long worn off - of walking into the courtyard of a one-star Irapuato hotel and seeing the Russian team's red CCCP game shirts hanging out to dry over balcony railings after their players had to clean their own kits and seeing a couple of heavy KGB-looking guys make it clear that if we tried to nick one or two there'd be serious hell to pay.

And of getting to tell that smug, insufferable wretch Michel Platini to his face to 'mange la merde'.

You just carry on spouting logic.

You just keep on coloring inside the lines.

But mostly, Johnny TiCat, it'd be nice it you just parked it for a while.

those 30 year old memories are great and all. But I still dont see it as a reason to move games to an artificial community field in johns in place of bmo.

Excuse me though, need to finish my colouring book lol

[moralis]

MLSE executive: Company "hopeful" Argos deal can be found

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/in...be-found-r5172

Send messages to Wayne Zronik - MLSE vice president of facilities and entertainment:

http://www.mlse.com/inside_mlse/wayne_zronik_bio.aspx

https://twitter.com/Zronimo

[mastermixer]

Those 8000 seats had nothing to do with TFC. It was always built with the Argos/Winter Classic in mind. They are not dumb in realizing that they could barely sell out the stadium for TFC games as it was before unless it was Beckham, Real Madrid, or 2007. The fact that they are promoting this expansion as a TFC thing is insulting TBH.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Those 8000 seats had nothing to do with TFC. It was always built with the Argos/Winter Classic in mind. They are not dumb in realizing that they could barely sell out the stadium for TFC games as it was before unless it was Beckham, Real Madrid, or 2007. The fact that they are promoting this expansion as a TFC thing is insulting TBH.

Agreed. There is no way they would expand until years of true sellout attendances.

[OgtheDim]

Selling out TFC at 21K is not really an issue, and really all the team cares about. Getting all those bums in the seats though.

Oh, and I remain unconvinced its going to be easy to sell out the Argos at BMO at 25K. The Argos have been papered for decades. And a lot of their attendance is in cheap seats. 111 and 127 can only hold so many people.

The Argos are a FAR tougher sell in this city.

No, there is far more potential for TFC in this town then the Argos, and the revenue of a Winter Classic isn't worth the expense.

[Wagner]

Say they expand BMO to 35K for the winter classic.
they will charge crazy amounts to see the same hockey at the ACC...but worse sight lines, and no heat.

Cheapest Ticket will be like $150.

let's say avg price of $225 x 35,000 = $7.875 million.
1 of those every 3 or 4 years....
plus beers, merch, etc.

[TFC07]

Say they expand BMO to 35K for the winter classic.
they will charge crazy amounts to see the same hockey at the ACC...but worse sight lines, and no heat.

Cheapest Ticket will be like $150.

let's say avg price of $225 x 35,000 = $7.875 million.
1 of those every 3 or 4 years....
plus beers, merch, etc.

Yeah, I could see this happening in short term, but eventually I could see Outdoor game losing it's charm in this market.

[Enterprise Captain]

Yeah, I could see this happening in short term, but eventually I could see Outdoor game losing it's charm in this market.

Plus how many outdoor games will MLSE be awarded? Grey Cups have the potential to come around more often and are quite profitable.

[OgtheDim]

Yeah, I could see this happening in short term, but eventually I could see Outdoor game losing it's charm in this market.

If you'd have asked people 20 years ago whether a game between AC Milan and Olympiakos here in Toronto would be considered "meh" and sell only 10K of tickets, people would have thought you nuts.

[TFC07]

Plus how many outdoor games will MLSE be awarded? Grey Cups have the potential to come around more often and are quite profitable.

Maybe so, but I feel like outdoor Grey Cup game beside the lake will turn off a lot of people especially price they're paying for.

Remember that Vancouver barely sold out their Grey Cup game which was played indoor stadium last year. Grey Cup is becoming too expensive to average CFL fan which eventually hurt Grey Cup attendance unless CFL reduce ticket prices.

[TFC07]

If you'd have asked people 20 years ago whether a game between AC Milan and Olympiakos here in Toronto would be considered "meh" and sell only 10K of tickets, people would have thought you nuts.

Well, anybody who thought that was either blind or idiot. Toronto has a huge immigrant population so selling out soccer games wouldn't be an issue in this market.

Soccer has huge upside to become "The" sport in this market. This is why MLSE got into soccer business because they see demographic changing in GTA where it favour soccer.

[TFC07]

Those 8000 seats had nothing to do with TFC. It was always built with the Argos/Winter Classic in mind. They are not dumb in realizing that they could barely sell out the stadium for TFC games as it was before unless it was Beckham, Real Madrid, or 2007. The fact that they are promoting this expansion as a TFC thing is insulting TBH.

Winning TFC will sell out 30K seats especially when you got DP's like Seba who can attract large following due to his nationality.

Despite lack of on-field success, TFC have been able to sell out their season tickets and attract reasonable size crowd that a lot of winning MLS clubs would envy.

[OgtheDim]

Well, anybody who thought that was either blind or idiot. Toronto has a huge immigrant population so selling out soccer games wouldn't be an issue in this market.

Soccer has huge upside to become "The" sport in this market. This is why MLSE got into soccer business!

Ummm....my point was that the organizers only sold 10K of seats and probably lost money on the event. This happened last summer. People get tired of meaningless friendlies.

i.e. I'm agreeing with you.

[TFC07]

Ummm....my point was that the organizers only sold 10K of seats and probably lost money on the event. This happened last summer. People get tired of meaningless friendlies.

i.e. I'm agreeing with you.

That friendly game was put together in the last minute after one of American cities cancel that game which left organizer(s) scrambling to find a venue to host that game. Toronto wasn't originally intended to host AC Milan friendly.

[Beach_Red]

Winning TFC will sell out 30K seats especially when you got DP's like Seba who can attract large following due to his nationality.

Despite lack of on-field success, TFC have been able to sell out their season tickets and attract reasonable size crowd that a lot of winning MLS clubs would envy.

Yes, that's true, but because of the structure of the league over a ten year period maybe five season will be winning ones (which at this point we'd be very happy with).

What seems clear is that for the foreseeable future, BMO will be the only big, outdoor stadium in the city and MLSE will try and get every event in there it can. They'll try the Argos, which may very well fail, they'll try outdoor hockey, which may lose its appeal, then they'll try something else. Maybe, over the next ten years the only thing that will work consistently will be soccer and BMO will become soccer=specific, but it will be by default, not by MLSE planning. of course, we don't care why.

[C.Ronaldo]

Yes, that's true, but because of the structure of the league over a ten year period maybe five season will be winning ones (which at this point we'd be very happy with).

What seems clear is that for the foreseeable future, BMO will be the only big, outdoor stadium in the city and MLSE will try and get every event in there it can. They'll try the Argos, which may very well fail, they'll try outdoor hockey, which may lose its appeal, then they'll try something else. Maybe, over the next ten years the only thing that will work consistently will be soccer and BMO will become soccer=specific, but it will be by default, not by MLSE planning. of course, we don't care why.

would like outdoor lacross back