Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[magmadragon]

I've seen pictures online and it seems none of the sideline players/staff are standing on the tarps that protect the grass on the side. Seems everyone is trampling around on the grass itself in front of the tarps and in between. That's probably my main concern right now for how the pitch is protected. Those of you who went to the game, is this accurate?

[Onyx]

... as was promised by TFC / MLSE many, many months ago. They said no logo's and no advertising except possibly in the end zones. There was none of that either.

If there were, it could be problematic in the south end zone as it is partially TFC natural grass and partially plastic pitch. Fortunately that is moot right now.

B

Argos agreed to this.
Playoffs and grey cup, the league not the argos have control games so your going to have advertising. Thats what happens for the whitecaps.

[Blizzard]

We'll have to see how it all plays out but yes, there is potential for that. It is an odd situation.

[mr k]

Listening to Arash Medani on Prime a Time sports Friday round table and Medani is a big CFL fan, however, I like him because even though he is a fan he calls it like he sees it, he was at the game on Thursday night , he said a lot of tickets in good sections of the field going for like 11 dollars on stub hub, he said a lot of people left at half time, well almost like TFC who leave at the 75th minute mark lol, he said TSN delayed the game to after 8 instead of 730 because they wanted the most people in their seats by the start of the game. He also mention the crazy amount of money they are spending on Marketing and wonders what will happen once they look at the books and see how much money was spent in case there is no real big increase in attendance, he mention that the season tickets have been very poor they wanted around 18000 and it's not even close to that number, he also said that they were talking selling out every game well if the home opener does not sell out not looking good on selling out every game. He also mentioned and remember he is a big CFL fan, that the attendance the other night was papered , he just did not seem that optimistic on a big Argo revival , he said it was early but they have a big job ahead of them, I'm just wondering if in order to try and make things work that in the future they will sacrifice the TFC experience to get the Argo thing going if they feel more needs to be done to get BMO more Argo centric?

Good summary but to clarify some points. Madani said they wanted 20k season tix but didn't get there and haven't disclosed how many season tix were sold. 18k was the break even point for the Argos. TSN & Argos agreed on the 8 pm start but didn't tell it publicly. So, while it created full bums in the seat at the beginning, it created a lot of empty seats at the end since people had banked on leaving at 1030.

By the way ratings were 742k for TSN & RDS for the game. Peak was 912k and 2.8 miilion watched some portion of the game. Up 39% from last season's Argos opener. And about 6-7x more eyeballs than TFC or Whitecaps tv matches.

[Shakes McQueen]

^ I don't know about that. They have more than sufficient pre-game coverage that hits all sorts of angles. Maybe the Argos don't market their players but I can tell you first hand other teams in the league certainly do.

The CFL has tried the rebrand thing multiple times in the last decade. Edgy advertising, appeals to a younger crowd, etc... Fact is they do not have the product to pull it off. The NFL and its growth in popularity in Canada just blunts whatever they'd like to do.

Let's just call it what it is: a sport with a core audience and decent TV ratings but without a lot of growth potential. They are throwing money on the fire trying to turn the Argos into something they are not.

I think the big problem the CFL has with Toronto, is that Toronto is increasingly seeing itself as "above" something as small-time as the CFL. Yet he Argos are also too important a market for the CFL to simply give up, even if the ticket sales or ratings aren't there. Of course, if the NFL expands into Toronto at some point, it's all over.

Lest this be accused of being motivated reasoning by a TFC fan - I actually think TFC is facing some of he same uphill struggle, now that the initial honeymoon "party" era is long over.

[Oldtimer]

Good summary but to clarify some points. Madani said they wanted 20k season tix but didn't get there and haven't disclosed how many season tix were sold. 18k was the break even point for the Argos. TSN & Argos agreed on the 8 pm start but didn't tell it publicly. So, while it created full bums in the seat at the beginning, it created a lot of empty seats at the end since people had banked on leaving at 1030.

By the way ratings were 742k for TSN & RDS for the game. Peak was 912k and 2.8 miilion watched some portion of the game. Up 39% from last season's Argos opener. And about 6-7x more eyeballs than TFC or Whitecaps tv matches.

... and you can't use the excuse that you use for say hockey. We say the NHL is the best league in the world for hockey, but MLS is not the best soccer league, that's why MLS has low ratings.

However, the CFL is not the highest gridiron in the world, yet it gets high ratings.

Reality is there are a lot of old guys my age, especially in Western Canada who are huge CFL fans, and the Ticats / Argos game is a huge draw because they can hate on Toronto.

[SoccMan2]

Well if they are not disclosing the season ticket numbers then they most likely are not that good or else they would be telling us right? Yes we know that the CFL does great numbers on TV, but then it only has the NFL to compete with in terms of that kind of football , I can watch soccer almost 365 days of the year , pointy ball football be it NFL or CFL is only on for their petecular seasons which are not that long, soccer is so fragmated with different leagues and competitions that viewership is so spread out, I think this needs to be taken into consideration too when we talk of MLS rating compared to CFL ratings, the CFl only has to compete with one league for its viewership , the MLS has so much competition within soccer to compete with, this needs to be taken into consideration too when talking TV ratings.

[mistercorporate]

Well if they are not disclosing the season ticket numbers then they most likely are not that good or else they would be telling us right? Yes we know that the CFL does great numbers on TV, but then it only has the NFL to compete with in terms of that kind of football , I can watch soccer almost 365 days of the year , pointy ball football be it NFL or CFL is only on for their petecular seasons which are not that long, soccer is so fragmated with different leagues and competitions that viewership is so spread out, I think this needs to be taken into consideration too when we talk of MLS rating compared to CFL ratings, the CFl only has to compete with one league for its viewership , the MLS has so much competition within soccer to compete with, this needs to be taken into consideration too when talking TV ratings.

I heard from a friend who works for MLSE that Argos have about 7,000 SSH, which is still better than last year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

i just want a pro team on the east coast (despite the shitty economy at the moment), could you image a couple thousand east coasters coming out to support a team?

If the Schooners weren't given their chance after the pre-season exhibition games they won't do it when the economy isn't great unless some Maritime Mogul appears. It would be nice, though.

[OgtheDim]

As I thought watching the game on Thursday

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/747101028084920320

That's between the two team tarps. Players don't and won't stay on those tarps.

[PopePouri]

Lets see what it's like on Saturday.

[reggie]

maybe we should have a grass cam

[Fort York Redcoat]

maybe we should have a grass cam

We get it. You don't care. We do. You want to make it out it's all we care about. It's not. Multiple threads on the forum, multiple cares given.

[reggie]

jus kidding around,im still pissed at last nights game.

[SoccMan2]

So the grass is already worn out in that spot nice, and that's only after two games and nice weather , what's it going to look like in a few months and some crappy weather? I give them until maybe the middle of next season before they slowly start talking about artificial turf which we all know is inevitable, if that happens I'm done and this club will be on a slow slide to it's death, the reason this thing worked in the beginning is due to this team coming with its own stadium and identity, the artificial turf was replaced by real grass because they realized that to sustain the support real grass was needed. We have already lost the uniqueness of playing in a stadium that was mainly for TFC with the Argos coming in, the final nail in the coffin will be artificial turf again, if they really want to kill this franchise then put that crap back in and then watch this club die.

[reggie]

this thread is a laugh now....i support the team not the lawn they play on.have you seen the pitches in france they are a joke.
i will never go on this thread again.

[Ivy]

So the grass is already worn out in that spot nice, and that's only after two games and nice weather , what's it going to look like in a few months and some crappy weather? I give them until maybe the middle of next season before they slowly start talking about artificial turf which we all know is inevitable, if that happens I'm done and this club will be on a slow slide to it's death, the reason this thing worked in the beginning is due to this team coming with its own stadium and identity, the artificial turf was replaced by real grass because they realized that to sustain the support real grass was needed. We have already lost the uniqueness of playing in a stadium that was mainly for TFC with the Argos coming in, the final nail in the coffin will be artificial turf again, if they really want to kill this franchise then put that crap back in and then watch this club die.

I don't think that's why they got grass.
Some of the best supported clubs in this league play on turf. If TFC is a consistent winner, I don't care what they play on. Obviously the grass is nicer, but I want to see a winning club more than I care about sprinklers.

[redcard]

So with all the hype of a new stadium and tailgating..they werent even close to their 20K SSH number? really i think the Argos will die before the grass...

I heard from a friend who works for MLSE that Argos have about 7,000 SSH, which is still better than last year.

[MightyDM]

Good summary but to clarify some points. Madani said they wanted 20k season tix but didn't get there and haven't disclosed how many season tix were sold. 18k was the break even point for the Argos. TSN & Argos agreed on the 8 pm start but didn't tell it publicly. So, while it created full bums in the seat at the beginning, it created a lot of empty seats at the end since people had banked on leaving at 1030.

By the way ratings were 742k for TSN & RDS for the game. Peak was 912k and 2.8 miilion watched some portion of the game. Up 39% from last season's Argos opener. And about 6-7x more eyeballs than TFC or Whitecaps tv matches.

CFL is very popular in Canada and all the other fans both hate and laugh at the Argos. In and around Toronto, the CFL is no longer popular. So TSN makes money keeping the Argos alive and will even if tix are alwAys papered, due to the rest of Canada. They are terrified that without the Argos to hate the league dies. That's what this is about. As one of the papers said, it's a Hail Mary. And Doug Flutie isn't in the league any more. He was pretty good at Hail Mary's.

[Fort York Redcoat]

this thread is a laugh now....i support the team not the lawn they play on.have you seen the pitches in france they are a joke.
i will never go on this thread again.

Don't make me have to bump this later.

[Voodooman]

Just shocks me that the East Coast doesn't have a team like Moncton/Halifax considering they love the CFL out here as well.

It's popular outside of Toronto seems to be the consensus.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So the grass is already worn out in that spot nice, and that's only after two games and nice weather , what's it going to look like in a few months and some crappy weather? I give them until maybe the middle of next season before they slowly start talking about artificial turf which we all know is inevitable, if that happens I'm done and this club will be on a slow slide to it's death, the reason this thing worked in the beginning is due to this team coming with its own stadium and identity, the artificial turf was replaced by real grass because they realized that to sustain the support real grass was needed. We have already lost the uniqueness of playing in a stadium that was mainly for TFC with the Argos coming in, the final nail in the coffin will be artificial turf again, if they really want to kill this franchise then put that crap back in and then watch this club die.

They didn't get grass just for support. Support just loved grass that meant being closer to a ground that was a SSS so we could keep attracting the best foreign talent. That was all possible only because of the lack of permanent groundshare. Not so now.

Yes they will not keep grass if the Argos keep ruining it and yes they will eventually go artificial but it won't be astroturf. It will be FIFA approved and most people won't notice or care. The club won't die because of it and support won't suffer if its such a minority in this minority of support in the total stadium.

Yeah its sad but one doesn't need to give up on the team over it.

[glaze]

Was at the rugby game yesterday. Couldn't really notice any argos lines on field, and that was within 3 days of their opener.
As has been noted, the real test will come after a game in the rain, or in the fall when it's stopped growing.
I'm fairly optimistic at this stage that it's going to work out.

[james]

As I thought watching the game on Thursday

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/747101028084920320

That's between the two team tarps. Players don't and won't stay on those tarps.

Those players need to get the F** off the grass on the side lines!

People who watch Football, doe's it not bother anyone that they block the views for fans closer to the front along the side lines? I've seen views before, that would bug me.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Those players need to get the F** off the grass on the side lines!

People who watch Football, doe's it not bother anyone that they block the views for fans closer to the front along the side lines? I've seen views before, that would bug me.

Proper gridiron stadiums account for that. It's the (here's that word again) groundshare stadia that have baseball such as Sky dome that need to account for it with empty seats up front that look like shit.

[Blizzard]

Proper gridiron stadiums account for that. It's the (here's that word again) groundshare stadia that have baseball such as Sky dome that need to account for it with empty seats up front that look like shit.

At Skydome they used to cover up the first half-dozen rows with blue tarps w advertising or other some such graphics which effectively did the same thing and made the rest of the seats look less empty. When they didn't do that, ya, it looked like shit.

[Amir FC]

Watching TFC vs Vancouver and I noticed at minute 30 stadium looks so much better than the beginning (more attendance). Why does Bell care so much about Argos? Is it because of TV ratings? Has the mayor ever attended any TFC game? TFC games are shown on TSN 1, 4 or 2 only, should be on all main channels like CFL.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people in higher power (media, government) don't want soccer to grow in Canada. A little acknowledge from Argos about TFC being at BMO for ten years wouldn't kill them.

I found a video which is an interview with someone in MLSE and basically says if the there is a huge issue with the grass, they're just going to replace the whole grass thing with a new one (natural grass) during the season:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtYyZVVw42M

[Onyx]

Watching TFC vs Vancouver and I noticed at minute 30 stadium looks so much better than the beginning (more attendance). Why does Bell care so much about Argos? Is it because of TV ratings? Has the mayor ever attended any TFC game? TFC games are shown on TSN 1, 4 or 2 only, should be on all main channels like CFL.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people in higher power (media, government) don't want soccer to grow in Canada. A little acknowledge from Argos about TFC being at BMO for ten years wouldn't kill them.

I found a video which is an interview with someone in MLSE and basically says if the there is a huge issue with the grass, they're just going to replace the whole grass thing with a new one (natural grass) during the season:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtYyZVVw42M

they have two pitches ready to go outside hamilton right now.


FYI: this is vancouver's lowest attended game of the season. TSN taken TFC off full network a few years ago because the ratings are so low they can't afford to put it on full network. This might be one of few full network games this season ... its wednesday and they have no other programming.

[SoccMan2]

Well I'm sure Bell and Tanenbaum are happy now that there won't be a conflict with a potential TFC home playoff date on the same weekend as the Grey Cup, because in order for that to have happened TFC would have had to finish pretty close to the top in the eastern conference in the regular season and also make it to the eastern conference playoff championship two game series. With all the injuries now just making the playoffs will be a miracle never mind finishing high enough in the standings for this kind of scenario to happen.

[Ivy]

Well I'm sure Bell and Tanenbaum are happy now that there won't be a conflict with a potential TFC home playoff date on the same weekend as the Grey Cup, because in order for that to have happened TFC would have had to finish pretty close to the top in the eastern conference in the regular season and also make it to the eastern conference playoff championship two game series. With all the injuries now just making the playoffs will be a miracle never mind finishing high enough in the standings for this kind of scenario to happen.

Not even half way through the season. We're 7 points out of first, with 2 games in hand. Chillax broski.