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    Default Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

    Another Argos to BMO thread since we got the news last week. Let's keep it on topic the best we can in here. Thanks.


    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...y-summer.html#


    What are peoples opinions on how this decision will be handled if it goes through?

    Will there be some gladhanding press conference for celebrating Argos fans or will it be a Canada Press release that they hope most of us don't notice?
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 02-23-2015 at 10:24 AM.
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    What is the historic ratio of users banned per Argo thread? It used to be pretty high, feels like we're slipping these days ...
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    What is the historic ratio of users banned per Argo thread? It used to be pretty high, feels like we're slipping these days ...
    I'm still shocked as to how many threads there are.
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    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.


    The best long term hope for TFC control of their own stadium is either

    a) we grow so big that a move out of BMO is the only way to keep up with demand (i.e. if there is demand for 45K + per game)
    That's not so radical an idea when Seattle is beginning the feelers to create their own SSS to build a 60K space only a few years after starting up in the home the Seahawks took over. Think about this scenario. Its 2022. TFC is averaging 30K a season with lots of demand. Do you build up to 40K and maximise the space? Or do you find a space at Downsview and build a 45k space with flexibility to go to 60K and leave the Argos behind?

    b) Argo ownership wants to keep the profits of concessions and sees the wisdom behind building their own space


    I think the pointy heads at MLSE are thinking a is far more likely.

    2030 - New Stadium
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-23-2015 at 10:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.


    The best long term hope for TFC control of their own stadium is either

    a) we grow so big that a move out of BMO is the only way to keep up with demand (i.e. if there is demand for 45K + per game)
    That's not so radical an idea when Seattle is beginning the feelers to create their own SSS to build a 60K space only a few years after starting up in the home the Seahawks took over. Think about this scenario. Its 2022. TFC is averaging 30K a season with lots of demand. Do you build up to 40K and maximise the space? Or do you find a space at Downsview and build a 45k space with flexibility to go to 60K and leave the Argos behind?

    b) Argo ownership wants to keep the profits of concessions and sees the wisdom behind building their own space
    Agree on all points but if I could add that Braley shouldn't have to be a sugar daddy for not one but 2 teams in such a small league. I feel for him on that score.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Agree on all points but if I could add that Braley shouldn't have to be a sugar daddy for not one but 2 teams in such a small league. I feel for him on that score.
    This is true. Braley is simply a caretaker owner who is running Argos until someone steps up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    This is true. Braley is simply a caretaker owner who is running Argos until someone steps up.
    Holy Crap! He took them on in 2010!?! It's been 4 seasons of caretaking...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Holy Crap! He took them on in 2010!?! It's been 4 seasons of caretaking...
    Yet Bob Young refers to himself of the Caretaker of the Ticats. OMG That's 12 seasons of caretaking......

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.
    It will probably come down to how important is the CFL to TSN, and therefore Bell. The TV business in this country has always taken place behind closed doors between a few players. A deal will be made and we'll be told about it when it's done. As always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    It will probably come down to how important is the CFL to TSN, and therefore Bell. The TV business in this country has always taken place behind closed doors between a few players. A deal will be made and we'll be told about it when it's done. As always.
    So you don't expect any fanfare over this? As bias as I am I'm still aware of the tens of thousands it will make happy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    So you don't expect any fanfare over this? As bias as I am I'm still aware of the tens of thousands it will make happy...
    Once the decision is made there will be plenty of fanfare (marketing) if it goes that way. But there's a lot of politics because it's an east-west split. I think what happens to the Argos is a minor part of a larger negotiation between these media companies. In the TV business the idea of Canadian content used to be sacrosanct (because the CRTC made is so) but it isn't anymore. It's just a matter of how quickly it bleeds out and is finally gone completely from the private broadcasters.

    So, if the Argos die and the CFL suffers because of it and Bell loses that Canadian content and there are no consequences it could be an important step (Bell would like to be rid of all its Canadian content, I think). That's why I think there's a very good chance we'll never see the Argos at BMO. It's kind of a canary in the coal mine for other issues.

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    Why summer 2015? Argos got plenty of time to make a deal to move to BMO field (Their lease with Rogers Centre ends in Dec 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Why summer 2015? Argos got plenty of time to make a deal to move to BMO field (Their lease with Rogers Centre ends in Dec 2017)
    They do but I used their timeframe from the article.
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    It's a federal election year.
    Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
    Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    It's a federal election year.
    Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
    Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.
    I don't think Feds are going to contribute any money especially with oil prices being down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    It's a federal election year.
    Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
    Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    I don't think Feds are going to contribute any money especially with oil prices being down.
    I think it's deeper than that - Feds have already said no to others asking for stadium money. Quebec city wanting a new arena to attract an NHL team back is a good example... new CFL stadium in Regina that's currently under development (without fed dollars) another good one.

    So if they gave money to Argos to move to BMO, it would make them look bad by changing course on established policy, and more so piss off the rest of the country by apparently giving Toronto something nobody else is allowed to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WestStandGeoff View Post
    I think it's deeper than that - Feds have already said no to others asking for stadium money. Quebec city wanting a new arena to attract an NHL team back is a good example... new CFL stadium in Regina that's currently under development (without fed dollars) another good one.

    So if they gave money to Argos to move to BMO, it would make them look bad by changing course on established policy, and more so piss off the rest of the country by apparently giving Toronto something nobody else is allowed to have.
    on one of the other threads they cite some huge figure of public $$$$$ for CFL stadia - not my figure but worth checking out. I think they say $1 BN

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    A picture speaks a thousand words, so here are a few thousand, do we really want this?






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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    A picture speaks a thousand words, so here are a few thousand, do we really want this?





    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.
    Don't bother, you won't find anything on the scale of the Revs and Sounders pics posted above.

    You wont have a Revs/Sounders situation as the CFL pitch is wider and longer so no white markings on the side of the pitch and the end zone would be behind the penalty area.

    I've asked a few Caps fans if they have ever had a situation like Revs and Sounders have and they haven't. Faded markings similar to the Houston pitch you posted but nothing on the scale of Revs and Sounders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Don't bother, you won't find anything on the scale of the Revs and Sounders pics posted above.

    You wont have a Revs/Sounders situation as the CFL pitch is wider and longer so no white markings on the side of the pitch and the end zone would be behind the penalty area.

    I've asked a few Caps fans if they have ever had a situation like Revs and Sounders have and they haven't. Faded markings similar to the Houston pitch you posted but nothing on the scale of Revs and Sounders.
    Yes, like Houston.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.
    The point was that CFL doesn't do as much damage as NFL. Which is true but the difference is not enough to be acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    The point was that CFL doesn't do as much damage as NFL. Which is true but the difference is not enough to be acceptable.
    I'm being pedantic tbh. Not saying it's acceptable either.

    Given there is already a CFL/MLS groundshare in existence. Any talk of markings/paint etc should revolve around that and not the Sounders or Revs imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    But it would be a dog run when the most important games take place towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

    What about when TFC once again start playing CONCACAF Champions League games in mid-week from August on? We've had some really good games against top Mexican sides with technical level of play not often seen in MLS games. The ball's on the deck and the passing and movement has been a cut above. Best of all, our players have routinely raised their games to compete with superior talent.

    We could also see CFL games impair the quality of play if our national teams choose to play at BMO or when top international sides come in for friendlies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    But it would be a dog run when the most important games take place towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

    What about when TFC once again start playing CONCACAF Champions League games in mid-week from August on? We've had some really good games against top Mexican sides with technical level of play not often seen in MLS games. The ball's on the deck and the passing and movement has been a cut above. Best of all, our players have routinely raised their games to compete with superior talent.

    We could also see CFL games impair the quality of play if our national teams choose to play at BMO or when top international sides come in for friendlies.
    Towards this line of discussion the point is not (to me) whether it will be so bad

    but

    If it doesn't have to happen why do this when it will only make things worse?

    I quoted you gwn because by IB's POV one could say there are other teams in the CCL that have shambolic fields at that time (all the time, really).

    To repeat whats above - why would we want to see an inferior product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
    Yes, they're full time at downsview now. In partnership with MLSE.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/..._facility.html

    While terms of the practice facility agreement weren’t disclosed, Rudge acknowledged it was a multi-year deal, and that the Argos would be paying rent to MLSE.

    The team will also be using a privately run fitness facility at Downsview Park. The fitness facility is owned by another company, but is close to the Argos’ new practice facility, Rudge said. Argo coaches will also have offices in Toronto FC’s current training facility.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/09...some-stability
    Last edited by king10; 02-23-2015 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    One other element I'd like more info on

    Is the Argos training sched. I just read something about them moving from Erindale last year but are they full time training at Downsview now??
    Yes - they moved into their new facility at Downsview last September


 

 

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