Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[flatpicker]

So will the TFC Playoff game will have temporary stands as well?

I feel like there would be enough demand for a TFC playoff game to add the extra seats.
Especially if it were a semi-final game or such.

[mistercorporate]

Yeah, Onyx seems to be the#1 troll bait for the desperate CFL crowd, they're always quoting his ridiculous crap. Thanks pal!

[Auzzy]

CCL games aren't scheduled until end June time period, so there might be conflict with Argos schedule

I don't know exactly which months CCL will be next year. However I agree it will have an impact on Argos scheduling again, but also possibly on TFC.

Let's say Argos know from the MLS schedule, that TFC are playing away in MLS on a specific weekend during the possible CCL period -- and that TFC also aren't playing at home in MLS the previous or following mid-week. Argos could then book a home game on the Thursday before that MLS away weekend. That way, a TFC CCL home game could be slipped in on the Tuesday or Wed. just before -- but that might give them only one day turnaround from CCL soccer to CFL, is that enough time?

If the TFC CCL home game is slipped in the following Tue/Wed, that leaves a minimum 5 day turnaround from the Argos' Thursday home game, which seems to be the minimum they've used up until now.

However, we really don't know how tight the Argos' scheduling rules are at BMO, and how much Rogers will fight for TFC. Yes we were verbally promised some things, but we've been screwed before. Maybe they would risk having an Argos Friday night game, with a possible 4-day turnaround to a CCL home game the following Tuesday.


BTW the nice summer weather with Argos (and TFC) so far tells me nothing RE pitch durability. We know that MLS sub players jogging in the rain, still cause a fair bit of mud on the grass at those spots. CFL during a big rain storm could have a huge impact.

[OgtheDim]

I got no issue with what Onyx writes in here.

I do have issues with stuff in that forum but that's Argo land.

I would point out one interesting bit that says something about the Argo demographic

Somebody complained they went to Saturday's game with 8 kids and had a bad experience afterwards (now this guy was dissing the crowd amounts and saying it was boring but....meh).

His big complaint was something about a bunch of "hooligans" who were wearing "full black with face masks" who started an "impromptu mosh pit" near the Go tunnel entrance. I'm guessing there is a bit of hyperbole there cause the only group I saw were not all in black, were not pushing around anybody, were not wearing masks and generally were doing the jump up and down while yelling out TFC songs thing.

But this is the thing - if the Argos want to survive, they have to develop an atmosphere that draws in people. An atmosphere where people WANT to jump up and down afterwards. An atmosphere where people WANT to thump the sides of the tunnel under the railroad and shout Argo songs.

Now, you either do what most sports teams do and draw in people with the atmosphere created by personal history (that's what the Jays have done grabbing all those kids who sat in front of the TV for the late 80's and early 90's and now go to Jays games)

or

you draw in people with the energy and atmosphere of the current experience and hope to build up so that you have a sustainable group 5-10-20 years down the road. (which is actually what TFC and MLS is doing)

There is not enough people with personal history of the Argos willing to go to games anymore.

So what the Argos need to do is create atmosphere now.

Ur not going to do that with Hedley singing the national anthem, or the Argo band (as much as I love seeing all those people who went to U of Waterloo in the 80's who are in that band).

You are going to do that with energy and passion for the experience - i.e. the sort of people who jump up and down and cheer and yell and get freaking loud. In theory, that's what they are trying to do with the South End supporters area they created. But you've got to let the boys and girls get loud and do weird stuff and then show that and then talk about that passion and then get more people into there and do weird stuff that other teams don't do- and that's not the CFL style to do weird stuff that other teams don't do.

They got a SERIOUS demographic issue in Toronto with that lost generation of people under 50 that don't have CFL experiences. And, yet, the average CFL fan doesn't see that the experience they want, the Regina, Montreal, Prairie good time thing can't be replicated here. They need to create new energy from a new way of watching and experiencing the CFL game. And that is freaking tough when all your CFL institutional experience is based on history.


So, sure, don't be happy at a bunch of guys jumping up and down and being rowdy after a TFC game. But, your team, your sport, a sport I actually enjoy and want to see prosper in Toronto because without this city, the CFL is in serious trouble, that sport NEEDS those sort of people going to Argo games.

[PAOK17]

I was listening to the Fan 590 this morning on the way to work, and they discussed the poor attendance at the Argos game yesterday. I know that it's a 905 crowd, and it's mid week, etc. but they had a poll going on to find out what people watched on TV last night. Since I don't have twitter I can't tell you the final results, but the choices were: take a night off sports, ESPYs, TFC, Argos. At the time that I was listening, 75% said nothing, 11% said TFC, 9% ESPYs, and 5% Argos. I suspect most voters are from the GTA, but man with only 12000 going to their game, and nothing else to watch on tv, fans still seemed to have turned off that team.

I also remember our third ever home game at BMO Field against Houston. It was midweek, and pouring rain. Now that was a good excuse for not getting good numbers. But last night? Please. An article I read even blamed the Indy setup at the Ex as turning people away from going. Really?

[Ivy]

Funny that Argos fans can use Duran Duran, Indy, midweek, etc as an excuse for poor attendance, but when we use that as a reason for half the crowd showing up LATE to the game, somehow WE'RE full of shit.

[BuSaPuNk]

I got no issue with what Onyx writes in here.

I do have issues with stuff in that forum but that's Argo land.

I would point out one interesting bit that says something about the Argo demographic

Somebody complained they went to Saturday's game with 8 kids and had a bad experience afterwards (now this guy was dissing the crowd amounts and saying it was boring but....meh).

His big complaint was something about a bunch of "hooligans" who were wearing "full black with face masks" who started an "impromptu mosh pit" near the Go tunnel entrance. I'm guessing there is a bit of hyperbole there cause the only group I saw were not all in black, were not pushing around anybody, were not wearing masks and generally were doing the jump up and down while yelling out TFC songs thing.

But this is the thing - if the Argos want to survive, they have to develop an atmosphere that draws in people. An atmosphere where people WANT to jump up and down afterwards. An atmosphere where people WANT to thump the sides of the tunnel under the railroad and shout Argo songs.

Now, you either do what most sports teams do and draw in people with the atmosphere created by personal history (that's what the Jays have done grabbing all those kids who sat in front of the TV for the late 80's and early 90's and now go to Jays games)

or

you draw in people with the energy and atmosphere of the current experience and hope to build up so that you have a sustainable group 5-10-20 years down the road. (which is actually what TFC and MLS is doing)

There is not enough people with personal history of the Argos willing to go to games anymore.

So what the Argos need to do is create atmosphere now.

Ur not going to do that with Hedley singing the national anthem, or the Argo band (as much as I love seeing all those people who went to U of Waterloo in the 80's who are in that band).

You are going to do that with energy and passion for the experience - i.e. the sort of people who jump up and down and cheer and yell and get freaking loud. In theory, that's what they are trying to do with the South End supporters area they created. But you've got to let the boys and girls get loud and do weird stuff and then show that and then talk about that passion and then get more people into there and do weird stuff that other teams don't do- and that's not the CFL style to do weird stuff that other teams don't do.

They got a SERIOUS demographic issue in Toronto with that lost generation of people under 50 that don't have CFL experiences. And, yet, the average CFL fan doesn't see that the experience they want, the Regina, Montreal, Prairie good time thing can't be replicated here. They need to create new energy from a new way of watching and experiencing the CFL game. And that is freaking tough when all your CFL institutional experience is based on history.


So, sure, don't be happy at a bunch of guys jumping up and down and being rowdy after a TFC game. But, your team, your sport, a sport I actually enjoy and want to see prosper in Toronto because without this city, the CFL is in serious trouble, that sport NEEDS those sort of people going to Argo games.

There was a mosh pit outside the GO entrance after it was hilarious. Made sure it was away from the crowd and no one was hit that didn't want to be near it so I don't see the issue.

[mowe]

I was listening to the Fan 590 this morning on the way to work, and they discussed the poor attendance at the Argos game yesterday. I know that it's a 905 crowd, and it's mid week, etc. but they had a poll going on to find out what people watched on TV last night. Since I don't have twitter I can't tell you the final results, but the choices were: take a night off sports, ESPYs, TFC, Argos. At the time that I was listening, 75% said nothing, 11% said TFC, 9% ESPYs, and 5% Argos. I suspect most voters are from the GTA, but man with only 12000 going to their game, and nothing else to watch on tv, fans still seemed to have turned off that team.

Found that tweet:

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/ItsDeanBlundell/status/753541832093601792

9% Argos
8% TFC
11% ESPYs
72% Nothing

1300+ responses

[Shakes McQueen]

I was listening to the Fan 590 this morning on the way to work, and they discussed the poor attendance at the Argos game yesterday. I know that it's a 905 crowd, and it's mid week, etc. but they had a poll going on to find out what people watched on TV last night. Since I don't have twitter I can't tell you the final results, but the choices were: take a night off sports, ESPYs, TFC, Argos. At the time that I was listening, 75% said nothing, 11% said TFC, 9% ESPYs, and 5% Argos. I suspect most voters are from the GTA, but man with only 12000 going to their game, and nothing else to watch on tv, fans still seemed to have turned off that team.

I also remember our third ever home game at BMO Field against Houston. It was midweek, and pouring rain. Now that was a good excuse for not getting good numbers. But last night? Please. An article I read even blamed the Indy setup at the Ex as turning people away from going. Really?

If the Indy setup is enough to keep you away from an Argos game, then you aren't an Argos fans. Give me a break.

[Shakes McQueen]

I just hope MLSE/TFC have the backbone to keep prioritizing TFC home games. If attendance for Argos games keeps up like this, they will be exerting a lot of pressure for better dates.

Just gotta keep a watchful eye on things as fans, and make noise if necessary. I really don't think the Argos have much leverage to begin with.

Can't help but wonder if the crazy heat this summer has affected their turnout - they used to play in a nice, air-conditioned dome. Now they are out in 30C heat and humidity.

[OgtheDim]

There was a mosh pit outside the GO entrance after it was hilarious. Made sure it was away from the crowd and no one was hit that didn't want to be near it so I don't see the issue.

Ya scarred a demographic for life it seems.

[Globetrotter]

Found that tweet:

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/ItsDeanBlundell/status/753541832093601792

9% Argos
8% TFC
11% ESPYs
72% Nothing

1300+ responses

What does this tell us? People dont want to pay absurd prices to go see the Argos live, but still prefer live CFL to live MLS? Argos still > TFC? Nothing?

[greatwhitenorf]

Tonight would have been a good night for the Argos game. Jays still aren't playing, no TFC game. Even the Intercounty Maple Leafs are playing out of town in Kitchener against the Panthers. They had about 7-800 fans out for the Wednesday game.

At the rate the Argos are drawing, the ball Leafs are becoming competition.

[Doucet3]

Interestinggggg..: what is that behind the south end?? Grey A and Grey B?

Thought the same thing man, hypothetically we do well and are stable for the next few years and demand slowly increases I could see that being implemented at TFC games. It's going to be interesting to see on tv during the game.

[Doucet3]

The dawning of reality for the few, the proud, the pugnacious:

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.p...ednesday/page6

I followed the link got a laugh at their dwindling fan bases fleeting hopes an dreams then decided to see of there was anything else interesting searched and found! Lol if you go to the 'double blue' or whatever section all Argos talk they have a thread called "a TFC fan goes to far this Time" which the clown did but some sensible Argo fans said don't blame a whole group ... After reading further along I see the regular RPB are clown and were insecure talk because we ban people (which ironically enough a guy on there was coming to the defense of TFC but still backing the Argos and they banned him, the name was tbone) the part that just made me embarrassed that they acted the way they did was start to name drop members of our SG and others ... And continually bash them knowing fully we weren't their to obv retort ... Essentially this is the only way the can feel good about themselves that our south end SG's (the hardcore fans) basically outnumbers what they can draw in a whole stadium ...

[Wagner]

Tonight would have been a good night for the Argos game. Jays still aren't playing, no TFC game. Even the Intercounty Maple Leafs are playing out of town in Kitchener against the Panthers. They had about 7-800 fans out for the Wednesday game.

At the rate the Argos are drawing, the ball Leafs are becoming competition.

i had a good laugh at that part.

sidenote, i suggest anyone into baseball go to Christie Pits for a game. It is a free and uniquely toronto experience.

[Wagner]

Wow,
Steve Simmons has some harsh words for the Argos.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/14...ion-in-toronto

[OgtheDim]

The way tougher sell will be the 3 other Grey Cups in the next 5 years. These people really are taking CFL fans for granted.

[TFC Tifoso]

Not slagging just sayin', is all. And I can tell you ain't old...Just Old School.

...so 40 is old eh? hmmm maybe I should browse the internet on which is the best newspaper for me...

smart man.....

nah 40 isn't necessarily old......its just the "maturing" years lol.....

[Pint]

What does this tell us? People dont want to pay absurd prices to go see the Argos live, but still prefer live CFL to live MLS? Argos still > TFC? Nothing?

It's also Dean Blundell... his audience isn't exactly TFC supporters.

[Areathrasher]

Stephen Brunt speaking on the FAN morning show about the Argos at BMO: "it is as big a disaster as it could be.”

Interesting....

[Fort York Redcoat]

What does this tell us? People dont want to pay absurd prices to go see the Argos live, but still prefer live CFL to live MLS? Argos still > TFC? Nothing?

Live CFL on tv when they could have gone to see them live? I guess that's the mentality. I know you can't be pointing out more people watch CFL on tv than MLS on tv here, locally. That's been discussed elsewhere ad nauseam. Hope it changes but not much to discuss.

[Derko]

Just gotta keep a watchful eye on things as fans, and make noise if necessary. I really don't think the Argos have much leverage to begin with.

Can't help but wonder if the crazy heat this summer has affected their turnout - they used to play in a nice, air-conditioned dome. Now they are out in 30C heat and humidity.

Which makes me just quaff a few more beers and makes it even noisier at TFC games

[Kaz]

What does this tell us? People dont want to pay absurd prices to go see the Argos live, but still prefer live CFL to live MLS? Argos still > TFC? Nothing?

Actually what it tells us that more people from Ottawa who watched the Red Blacks than TFC are also followers of Blundell than people in Columbus. The fact that the Argos number isn't higher with two Canadian teams (Blundell's primary audience) is sad. particularly given the 12.5k that went to the game.

[Phil]

Price is too high and not enough focus by the ticket team to drill down on getting seasons ticket holders. Skydome was at least positioned to get a walk up crowd. It does't exist at BMO. One thing MLSE have done well and held out there for all to see is recruit fans to be seasons holders.

Argos just got exposed with a dwindling fan base, a much tougher to get to stadium and crazy high prices.

[BuSaPuNk]

Actually what it tells us that more people from Ottawa who watched the Red Blacks than TFC are also followers of Blundell than people in Columbus. The fact that the Argos number isn't higher with two Canadian teams (Blundell's primary audience) is sad. particularly given the 12.5k that went to the game.

Don't know what your listening too.

The Fan almost always glosses over and doesn't report or talk about the CFL at all. It's not the go to for any CFL talk at all. TSN Radio though has to as its it main stay on the TV side.

[Canary10]

I got no issue with what Onyx writes in here.

I do have issues with stuff in that forum but that's Argo land.

I would point out one interesting bit that says something about the Argo demographic

Somebody complained they went to Saturday's game with 8 kids and had a bad experience afterwards (now this guy was dissing the crowd amounts and saying it was boring but....meh).

His big complaint was something about a bunch of "hooligans" who were wearing "full black with face masks" who started an "impromptu mosh pit" near the Go tunnel entrance. I'm guessing there is a bit of hyperbole there cause the only group I saw were not all in black, were not pushing around anybody, were not wearing masks and generally were doing the jump up and down while yelling out TFC songs thing.

But this is the thing - if the Argos want to survive, they have to develop an atmosphere that draws in people. An atmosphere where people WANT to jump up and down afterwards. An atmosphere where people WANT to thump the sides of the tunnel under the railroad and shout Argo songs.

Now, you either do what most sports teams do and draw in people with the atmosphere created by personal history (that's what the Jays have done grabbing all those kids who sat in front of the TV for the late 80's and early 90's and now go to Jays games)

or

you draw in people with the energy and atmosphere of the current experience and hope to build up so that you have a sustainable group 5-10-20 years down the road. (which is actually what TFC and MLS is doing)

There is not enough people with personal history of the Argos willing to go to games anymore.

So what the Argos need to do is create atmosphere now.

Ur not going to do that with Hedley singing the national anthem, or the Argo band (as much as I love seeing all those people who went to U of Waterloo in the 80's who are in that band).

You are going to do that with energy and passion for the experience - i.e. the sort of people who jump up and down and cheer and yell and get freaking loud. In theory, that's what they are trying to do with the South End supporters area they created. But you've got to let the boys and girls get loud and do weird stuff and then show that and then talk about that passion and then get more people into there and do weird stuff that other teams don't do- and that's not the CFL style to do weird stuff that other teams don't do.

They got a SERIOUS demographic issue in Toronto with that lost generation of people under 50 that don't have CFL experiences. And, yet, the average CFL fan doesn't see that the experience they want, the Regina, Montreal, Prairie good time thing can't be replicated here. They need to create new energy from a new way of watching and experiencing the CFL game. And that is freaking tough when all your CFL institutional experience is based on history.


So, sure, don't be happy at a bunch of guys jumping up and down and being rowdy after a TFC game. But, your team, your sport, a sport I actually enjoy and want to see prosper in Toronto because without this city, the CFL is in serious trouble, that sport NEEDS those sort of people going to Argo games.

One thing made me laugh in the Argos thread. Someone asked about the best way to drive to the game, to which someone responded parking in Liberty Village and walking down through the tunnel. A good suggestion, which I agree with and normally do. Then he said it only takes about ten minutes to walk to and from BMO back to Liberty. If it takes him only ten minutes to walk back through the tunnel to Liberty after an Argos game, you've got some big attendance problems. It normally takes me 40 minutes to get back through that tunnel. What with mosh pits and the huge numbers of people (many from the 905 catching trains).

[jabbronies]

Most people in this city are not interested in CFL football - either on TV or in stands.
The hype around the NFL doesn't exist with the CFL and that is half of the sports appeal.

I think selling the CFL to the liberty village hipsters and bros is the only way the boatmen can save this sinking ship.

Hipster love to make shitty things popular, so this is right up their alley. Just make sure there is shitty beer available to buy and they will come in droves.
Bros like to drink and fight - so as long as there is cheap beer available, they will be there.

There you go Argos - the winning formula for CFL football in Toronto.

[Canary10]

Most people in this city are not interested in CFL football - either on TV or in stands.
The hype around the NFL doesn't exist with the CFL and that is half of the sports appeal.

I think selling the CFL to the liberty village hipsters and bros is the only way the boatmen can save this sinking ship.

Hipster love to make shitty things popular, so this is right up their alley. Just make sure there is shitty beer available to buy and they will come in droves.
Bros like to drink and fight - so as long as there is cheap beer available, they will be there.

There you go Argos - the winning formula for CFL football in Toronto.

Ha ha. Stock Pabst Blue Ribbon, and tank the attendance numbers for a few more weeks, and the Liberty Village crowd will be theirs!

[Pint]

Most people in this city are not interested in CFL football - either on TV or in stands.
The hype around the NFL doesn't exist with the CFL and that is half of the sports appeal.

I think selling the CFL to the liberty village hipsters and bros is the only way the boatmen can save this sinking ship.

Hipster love to make shitty things popular, so this is right up their alley. Just make sure there is shitty beer available to buy and they will come in droves.
Bros like to drink and fight - so as long as there is cheap beer available, they will be there.

There you go Argos - the winning formula for CFL football in Toronto.

Unless you can brand the argos as an organic, fair trade and vegan team i doubt you can get the hipsters.