well said, everybody wins would be ideal. I want every TO team to succeed and civic pride should prevail.Originally Posted by TravelPat
well said, everybody wins would be ideal. I want every TO team to succeed and civic pride should prevail.
well said. Can we finally delete this thread
Yeah - what does he know??
Dr. Bibby is one of the country's better known academics. His work has been covered in virtually all of Canada's major dailies and has received front cover treatment by Maclean's magazine on four occasions – April 9, 2001, July 1, 2006, April 13, 2009, and March 30, 2015 . In addition, he has contributed articles to newspapers including the Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Edmonton Journal, Calgary Herald, and Ottawa Citizen. His extensive national television and radio appearances over the years have included the CBC and CTV national news, Canada AM, Question Period, As It Happens, Cross Country Check Up, Sunday Edition, various CBC Newsworld/News Network programs, TSN's Off the Record, and such well-known, former Canadian mainstays as Peter Gzowski's Morningside, Shelagh Rogers' Sounds Like Canada, Valerie Pringle's Midday, and Pamela Wallin Live.
In the United States, his work has been given exposure by prominent news outlets including as The New York Times, the USA Today, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, the Christian Science Monitor, the Chicago Tribune, and the Los Angeles Times.
Jack - I'm guessing you have heard of this gentleman? Are his credentials legit?
If anyone actually believed in the argos we wouldn't be seeing MLSE turning them down and Bell/LT buying them cheap and generally out of pity and self interest.
Bell: Needs cheap canadian content
LT: plays nice with the city in case he is ever able to bring NFL to toronto
The sale price of the Argos will be less than TFC's roster salary this season and TFC are set to lose a little money this year and make money next season.
The demographics of downtown toronto and the GTA in general has and is shifting. I simply don't see how moving back to an area they already forced their way out of, into a stadium that does not fit them and a schedule that gives them little to work with does them any good.
The Argos have never had to go up against a Jays home game before, they haven't had to deal with poor weather conditions (cold, wind, rain or snow) in a long time.
This move is simply not going to fix a much deeper rooted issue within the Toronto market place for the Argos.
you had me until "nfl in Toronto" Larry T is an old man, the dream died in a Blaze of Glory with J. Bon Jovi
A Jays home game will have no impact considering they generally get around 16 thousand for a regular opponent and I think its very likely the Argos will use the flexibility of the dates to avoid any Yankees/red socks matchups at the skydump.
Last edited by TorontoMetros; 05-08-2015 at 06:29 PM.
Actually a lot of survey companies like Angus Reid Global due have their biases (especially when comes to doing polls on political parties). Also, this survey is too small of sample to take it seriously.
I stand by my comment and judge teams and their popularity based on social media where there's bigger sample and a lot people these days are on social media. Numbers on social media is real as it gets and isn't based on selected few people who do these surveys.
Lastly, this survey was based on leagues not teams. As we know, there's a lot of CFL fans in Toronto that come from other parts of Canada to work in Toronto but root their hometown teams when comes to sports. CFL is popular (especially in western Canada) so numbers don't necessary reflect on Argos popularity.
NFL in toronto would be the long play, other than London and LA i don't see any other top markets for the NFL to break into.
Since the jays moved into Skydome they have averaged under 20,000 people once and if you are going up agaisnt a Friday, saturday or sunday game the Argos will lose (as will TFC in most cases).
with 17 home dates many in same time frame as the CFL they won't really be able to say when they play. No CFL on same weekend as TFC and Argos games must take place 5+ days before a TFC game. TFC schedule is done first and CFL works around it. I don't believe you would be able to work around anything.
Heres the problem with popularity on social media. Generally the people who spend all day tweeting or facebooking don't have a lot of responsibility in life (ie kids , unemployed). The responsible people generally do not use those sites as life tends to get in the way. These people generally have jobs that eat up free time with translates to having money in their pocket. I am thinking a business would be wise to target that demographic as opposed to the people twittering away who do not have 2 nickels to rub together.
Ya, I hear ya, my folks live in Mississauga and they tell me that Calgarians and Sask's are taking over that town.
MLSE exists to make money.
They can make more money with a multi-use facility. If they could make more money with a soccer only facility they would do that. They aren't doing that. They are making it multi-use.
They don't see what some of you (would like to) see. They see the Argos as a viable long term tenant and partner. The lease agreement at TFC Academy should have made that abundantly clear.
Argos aren't the enemy people. Your interests as supporters aren't aligned with the interests of the operators of this team. Surprising that this is surprising.
Bell are a money making machine. The Argos will become immedietly profitable under new ownership. not even a question. Bell and Larry T could turn a profit with Toronto's roller derby franchise.
I know it's a business and it's about making more money, I think TFC was making money at BMO the way it was, remember many soccer haters did not believe a stadium with just soccer could make money but it did, however, how can you make more money, well by having other events not only soccer events, say have another tenant like the Argos, they are seeing that with another 10 or possibly more dates more money can be made. The only thing I'm saying is that hopefully the soccer experience is not affected because one thing I know for sure BMO field has proven it did make money with mainly just TFC there, but I know for sure it won't make money with only the Argos there and I don't care how many Grey Cups they can host.
TFC made money. Absolutely.
But MLSE figures they can make more this way. That's why they are doing it.
What's the worst case for them? Supporters walk away? That's their lowest ticket price in the house. In fact, based on this dumb renewal pricing scenario the minute a supporter walks away, they can sell that same ticket for double the price.
TV ratings won't drop. They are already low.
And even if the stadium is empty, they simply stop spending on DPs and take in SUM TV rights and league revenue share. Player salaries, outside of DPs, are paid by the league. They could field a team with $0 out of pocket.
And the stadium won't be empty. It may be missing drums and banners but it won't be empty. Soccer is popular in Toronto. Just not profitable enough for exclusive use of a facility.
MLSE is comfortable with every risk outlined in this thread. If they weren't they wouldn't do it.
Last edited by Pookie; 05-08-2015 at 07:22 PM.
i think they will make money too.
Hey, what are ticket prices like for the Argos? What does the most expensive seat in the house go for?
Season tickets range from $255 to $1499.
Bear in mind they don't sell any in the 500 level.
https://oss.ticketmaster.com/aps/m/a...details/15FS10
Not sure the $1499 is correct. I just looked at their website and it lists $819 as the most expensive.
http://argonauts.ca/page/seasontickets
Price per game is comparable with TFC. Wonder whose prices rise the most… if at all?
I would think that the Argos would need to hold prices low to get established whereas if TFC makes the playoffs, I'd wager prices are on the rise.
Funny thing is that CFL commish is trying to get those kids who have no responsibility (like you put it) to follow CFL and he wants to use social media to get them hook up to CFL.
Personally speaking, I am on social media a lot (thanks to having a smart phone), but I have enough money to buy season tickets to watch TFC play. Not everyone on social media is some bum or kid. You can even find businesses using social media to attract business or at least network with others.
I agree with your Mississauga comment. I have notice people from Western Canada moving into Toronto lately as well (I recently met someone from Saskatchewan who recently move to Toronto to work for Pan AM games)
The $1499 seats are for on the field "Sideline Lounge" seats
Yes, with 1 click of a button it's easy to 'follow' but how many of those actually follow the team? 172k 'followers' is almost triple the TV rating of TFC.
You need to read up on the 1% rule of internet culture. While social media has been fast growing, it's not the be all to end all. Especially in determining outright popularity of sports team. Although the 1% rule has evolved, it can also be used to apply to all levels of social media.
I don't except everyone to follow TFC is going to be a hardcore fan, but at least they show enough interest in TFC that they're willing to follow them. What separate Maple Leafs/Raptors/Blue Jays from TFC/Argos is they have general public interest. That is X-factor why they're more popular than us (both TFC and Argos).
TV ratings is becoming less relevant since a lot of people are cutting their cords in favour using their internet to watch their shows and sports. Also, TV ratings aren't 100% accurate since only few people get survey on their TV habits so numbers can't be taken at face value.
Social media is used by all kinds of people so I put more weight on social media sites (like Twitter and Facebook) than some survey that questions only 1000 people country wide (that number will be dramatically less when comes to surveying people from Toronto) then use some kind of math formula to come up with their numbers. How is that more accurate than real people using social media to express their likes and dislikes publicly?
Last edited by TFC07; 05-08-2015 at 08:33 PM.
But…. can we agree that success on social media depends to a large extent on having a successful social media marketing plan/campaign?
For example, TFC have more twitter followers than the Sounders (166k). But Seattle does really well on Facebook (600k) vs TFC's Facebook at (202k). Seattle probably has more of a focus on updates/direct marketing through Facebook.
MLSE signed a deal with "Amplify" in November of 2013. Since that time they have almost doubled their followers for the Leafs (from 475k to 877k). The Raptors went from 293k to 770k. I'm sure that Drake and some playoffs helped as well. TFC was in Argos territory. This program and "The Bloody Big Deal" helped them get to where they are now.
The Argos gutted their marketing program under Braley. Over their twitter lifespan, they have actually sent out about 20k less tweets than the Marlies. It shouldn't come as a surprise that their numbers are below that of TFC at the moment. It's actually impressive that the Argos have added over 45k twitter followers in 2 years without any focus and dwindling attendance.
Twitter followers and Facebook likes are more of a measure of trends that an actual following.
I remember watching the Argo's twitter following jump by almost 25,000 during the 100th Grey Cup festival.
Charting the growth of your social media numbers is better than just counting followers.
Due to sudden spikes like popular events, or really anomalous activity, it's sometimes even hard to gauge that. Those polls are actually the most accurate way of measurement.
In speaking activity overall, July 13th 2013 TFC had 47,000 followers, broke the 100,000 mark Sept 2014 and now registers more than 172k. Impressive really.
But it begs to question why the social media guy for Toronto FC would do an audit on the account to check for fake followers. (You actually have to authorize the app on your twitter account, so since the Argos have never done it it's not available)
https://www.twitteraudit.com/torontofc
Not exact, but when 58% of your followers don't tweet or don't use social media or don't have links (I'm following a guy who also follows tfc) it gives a false impression of total popularity.
jus wondering...has ther been a decision on the argo move to bmo yet...or am i in the wrong thread again..
we'd like to hear more about your takes on Social Media and Internet Culture.
yes we would
really...are you sure?
Hope this isn't offside
Argos are not at TFC academy grounds,they are beside,they build some portables for change rooms(no surprise here)beside pointyball-truck&field in adjacent to TFC Academy,they don't have access to TFCA grounds.I'm there 2-3 time per week and they are not at TFCA.
^ ok, I got lost in the details of the partnership between MLSE and the Argos. MLSE built it adjacent to the Academy.
I wouldn't say build it,it looks more like trailer park that someone drove and dropped over there for the time being.
MLSE did not spend big money on it,field is there for over 4-5 years now,turf is crap,but for Argos turf doesn't real matter.
Thats it right there.
Supporters and MLSE won't see eye to eye on this ever. I do get the overwhelming sense that anyone involved in TFC on a 'soccer' level doesn't want the Argos there but the decision is made on a much bigger level.
That said, I think Tim L is a soccer guy who is being forced to walk the plank on his swan song here. Typical MLSE bullshit...they wonder why they are having issues finding his replacement...
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