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  1. #3871
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post
    ...
    To be fair The CFL as a whole has never really had attendance problems, a few bad apples but the west has always been solid between 25k-35k. The east has always been the CFL's trouble child. Once Montreal moved to Molson that problem seamed to fix itself. Now Hamilton is making money in there new digs. Although early Ottawa is doing phenomenal. Toronto is the last piece to the puzzle
    A few points on that.


    Some of us remember the 90's when only Edmonton and the Riders had decent crowds. Stable ownership helps but 7 of the 9 are not that far above water.

    Winnipeg is doing OK. BC still has issues. Calgary - we'll see this season now that oil has REALLY gone bust. I remember the last time oil went bust and what happened to their attendance. Montreal is losing money and it remains to be seen if they will maintain the crowds now that they are losing consistently. The narrative of "open air" fixes things is not proven. If ownership moves on, that franchise is unsustainable. i.e. They are a heart attack away from trouble. Ottawa and Hamilton are only making money now because of the new stadiums. And, lets not talk about how the biggest beneficiary of the Pan Am games was the Ti-Cats. I love the new stadium but that was financial largess that should not be happening anymore. And, it remains to be seen if Ti-Cat fans will keep coming out if that team begins to tank like it has in the past.

    Don't trust the TSN narrative and the narratives of those who desperately want the CFL to succeed. Be more critical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post

    I wouldn't mind hearing a realistic explanation of why the Argos won't be a success? And please don't cheap out and bring up last seasons numbers.

    Again let me reiterate...This isn't Argos vs TFC..MLS vs CFL

    Hello Mr. Pylon,
    Thought I would contribute a few personal takes on your positions. I know it will be difficult to sum this up... I feel that I once had Toronto Argo credibility. My father emigrated to Canada in 1952 and the Argos were his first and ONLY Canadian sports love. He grew up in England, an Everton supporter. He and I were Argo season ticket holders in the 80's. I could have told you in 1989 that the Argos had made the stupidest move of all time, the Skydome was poison for gridiron football.
    My dad passed almost a quarter century ago. My life since then turned to soccer. Attending games, coaching soccer, raising three kids (all soccer players and refs at some time) and even playing soccer in co-ed any skill accepted Sunday morning leagues. If I have soccer cred, it is from coaching and a willingness to learn. I am a TFC season seat holder since day 1. I have written a blog Mistake by the Lake about being a fan of TFC since day 1.

    For me (and I think I am fairly unique, I am not a RPB member - but perhaps the time has come) it IS a matter of MLS vs CFL.

    The CFL represents a brand of sport unique to Canadian soil - a quality largely rejected by generations of fans who flock to global sports - soccer and basketball. Play hoops or soccer and you could be on the world stage one day, World Cup, Olympics. Play CFL football and you will be big in Saskatchewan. Both fans and kids with athletic dreams have skewed to the global sports.

    The CFL represents an ancient Canadian television model of three channels. It used to be the only game in town in southern Ontario tv from July to Grey Cup. It is now possible to encounter people in this market who NEVER watch Canadian tv.

    The CFL represents a pro product that imports players from ONE source - USA. The Ontario grassroots of high school and university football has largely withered and died in creating interest, media attention, producing stars of the future. Compare Ontario to Michigan.

    I think that MLS, TFC and soccer have been fighting an uphill battle - but they represent the future to me, CFL and Argos the past. I hope the day will come when MLS has Canadian stars to match the Canadian rising talents in the NBA. Every young Canadian athlete who opts for Canadian football contributes to the uphill battle scenario, not the Canada takes a place on the global stage.

    I also think that the bandwagon attitudes of both Toronto fans and ownership need to be discouraged. Loyalty to your team should rise above trends. I am a serial monogamist. The Argos used to mean everything to me, now they mean next to nothing.

    I think that the potential for soccer as the April to November main outdoor Canadian sport is so huge, I would have been far happier if a woman's TFC had been formed and the National Soccer Stadium would have had a new soccer tenant.

    Just some of my thoughts - I knew I would not capture it without writing a full book...

  3. #3873
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    I've lived in three CFL cities - Ottawa, Toronto, and now Calgary. The difference in the presence of the team in those three spots could not be more different.

    Calgary is stable. Ottawa had a rough ride with terrible owners and often results to match (but generally should be okay and is now off to a good start). Both markets have strong recognition of the team in the media and among the general public.

    Toronto is a non-entity. Working downtown (nobody, and I mean nobody, ever) brought up that team under any circumstances. It's a blue collar product in a white collar town. I fully expect a temp bump from the new stadium but long term that really doesn't solve much. Let's not forget BMO is not skydome in terms of transit and this is a heavily 905 fan base.

    This is not to paper over TFC's own issues (which there are still many after years of Anselmi's management) but I generally wouldn't put much stock in CFL growth in Toronto long run unless something changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    You'd be on the list of members wanting into the South. It's no guarantee the first year.

    This will prove the most challenging year yet for TFC ticketing and relocation.
    is it easier to get south season tickets depending on which supporter group you are part of?
    just wondering, noticed a bunch of empty seats in the supporters end last year for the first time in a while (mainly for lesser-like teams)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    is it easier to get south season tickets depending on which supporter group you are part of?
    just wondering, noticed a bunch of empty seats in the supporters end last year for the first time in a while (mainly for lesser-like teams)
    I can't and don't speak for other groups, onyx. I can tell you how it is here but you'd have to go elsewhere to find the other takes you're asking about.

    If you're interested in membership feel free to pm me.
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    And who the hell cares how the Argos do now?

    Don't waste blood pressure on em. They're here. Just take note of any damage it does and add it to a list for TFC FO.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    A few points on that.


    Some of us remember the 90's when only Edmonton and the Riders had decent crowds. Stable ownership helps but 7 of the 9 are not that far above water.

    Winnipeg is doing OK. BC still has issues. Calgary - we'll see this season now that oil has REALLY gone bust. I remember the last time oil went bust and what happened to their attendance. Montreal is losing money and it remains to be seen if they will maintain the crowds now that they are losing consistently. The narrative of "open air" fixes things is not proven. If ownership moves on, that franchise is unsustainable. i.e. They are a heart attack away from trouble. Ottawa and Hamilton are only making money now because of the new stadiums. And, lets not talk about how the biggest beneficiary of the Pan Am games was the Ti-Cats. I love the new stadium but that was financial largess that should not be happening anymore. And, it remains to be seen if Ti-Cat fans will keep coming out if that team begins to tank like it has in the past.

    Don't trust the TSN narrative and the narratives of those who desperately want the CFL to succeed. Be more critical.
    It's likely true that the CFL isn't really doing well and after a year or two bump from the move to BMO the Argos will fade. It's too bad, in many ways, because the CFL is the kind of small-money sports league we claim we like but don't support. I kind of hope that MLS doesn't get too big, but it does have as a model the NFL, the owners' idea of success. This article (Cathal Kelly, so be warned, lots of people here don't like him) has some good insights into what it means to be as successful as the NFL:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle28628565/

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    No sorry. You guys are terribly mistaken. The new TV deal almost pays all player salary's right to the cap. It's 15x the revenue they were getting before. In an interview with bob the caretaker he said any CFL team should break even at 20K per season with the new tsn deal and the Economics have changed significantly post 2014 he is making money at 24K. Combine that with new stadiums that have potential to bring in revenue more than just your typical "stands and beer gardens" as for team by team...The bc lions were the CFL's most valuable teams in 2013. They seen a drop last year in attendance (significant) but again that's the world of pro sports and not one team in any league is safe from it unless your the leafs or packers. Montreal watched a veteran QB retire but they are still bringing in 21.5K a season, I hardly call that struggling. Calgary,sask, and Edmonton are just just fine 30K+. Winnipeg is the TFC of the CFL (on field success) Still report profits of 4M+ which is more than some NFL teams. If they can't make money at 24,000 fans than why are they building 24,000 seat stadiums?

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post
    No sorry. You guys are terribly mistaken. The new TV deal almost pays all player salary's right to the cap. It's 15x the revenue they were getting before. In an interview with bob the caretaker he said any CFL team should break even at 20K per season with the new tsn deal and the Economics have changed significantly post 2014 he is making money at 24K. Combine that with new stadiums that have potential to bring in revenue more than just your typical "stands and beer gardens" as for team by team...The bc lions were the CFL's most valuable teams in 2013. They seen a drop last year in attendance (significant) but again that's the world of pro sports and not one team in any league is safe from it unless your the leafs or packers. Montreal watched a veteran QB retire but they are still bringing in 21.5K a season, I hardly call that struggling. Calgary,sask, and Edmonton are just just fine 30K+. Winnipeg is the TFC of the CFL (on field success) Still report profits of 4M+ which is more than some NFL teams. If they can't make money at 24,000 fans than why are they building 24,000 seat stadiums?
    Maybe you can tell us why the Argos didn't build their own stadium if this is the case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    Maybe you can tell us why the Argos didn't build their own stadium if this is the case?
    Because building stadiums is a cake walk right? The National soccer Stadium would never have got public funding if it wasn't for the CSA. This isn't the 80's anymore It's a rare case that public dollars are used on strictly for sports stadia with little to no public gain. OSEG would have never taken a run at the REDBLACKS knowing they were going into a losing investment and they are thriving. add to that the cost of building a stadium has just about doubled over the past 10-15 years. The Argos ownerships groups haveade some terrible mistakes, No question. But now this league is on an upswing and this is here you guys figure it's gonna fold. not the dark days of the 90's or rebuild of the 2000', No it's when they expand to 9 teams (and are close to a 10th) and get a TV deal that covers 1/3rd of expenses add to that almost every team is playing in a new or renovated Stadium capable of bringing in twice the revenue at %80 of the seats

  11. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    Maybe you can tell us why the Argos didn't build their own stadium if this is the case?

    this ^

    as well....I was a massive Argos fan growing up - massive - and i have to admit i will still cast an eye their way on rare occasion....

    but times have changed...Toronto has many major league teams and soccer is a global sport and the MLS has desires to be a significant global league...

    I remember taking my son to an Argos game way back when and part way through the 3rd quarter he asked if we could leave (they were losing and i have to agree it was a tad boring) - but his rational was that there was an NFL game on TV later that he wanted to see - i was dumbstruck at the time. Today he is in his mid twenties and an avid NFL fan and could care less about the CFL, in fact he derides it.

    It is the way it is, at least in TDot.... I have friends...actually 'a' friend who is an Argo fan, and his wife who is from Saskatchewan and a diehard Roughriders fan, who are thrilled the Argos are at BMO this year. I agree that they will see a bump in seat sales this year and maybe next but the generations are not on their side...and if Toronto ever gets an NFL team (and i think eventually they/we will) the Argos are truly toast.

    all the same, for nostalgia sake, i wish them all the best...but if they screw with the pitch...F#@k 'em....big time....

  12. #3882
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    There is a massive misunderstanding about what is going on at BMO.

    That land is worth something like $500M. There is a huge public subsidy here, has been from the beginning. It's just masked by the crazy operating/ownership structure of BMO.

    The Argos are at BMO because the politicians were never going to give $500M in perpetuity just for soccer.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    A few points on that.



    Don't trust the TSN narrative and the narratives of those who desperately want the CFL to succeed. Be more critical.
    Don't trust the narrative of any North American sports broadcast because it is one corporation in bed with another. I would put the NFL and their broadcast partners at the top of the list as Cathal Kelly wrote this weekend: The entire enterprise is floated on constant, mindless chatter.

    Second would be NBA, then the NHL, then MLB and then MLS/CFL.

    And given the CFL is our top Canadian only pro league, Ti-Cats owner stepping up to own a Canadian Premier League team and other CFL owners likely to own CPL teams, I hope the Argos & the other teams do well. Though, given their football is becoming more like ConcussionBall, I'm not sure if the sport can survive as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Toronto has many major league teams and soccer is a global sport and the MLS has desires to be a significant global league...I remember taking my son to an Argos game way back when and part way through the 3rd quarter he asked if we could leave (they were losing and i have to agree it was a tad boring) - but his rational was that there was an NFL game on TV later that he wanted to see - i was dumbstruck at the time. Today he is in his mid twenties and an avid NFL fan and could care less about the CFL, in fact he derides it.
    So much wrong with this post

    #1 The argos have a big fan base Actually a huge fan base so you talking like they have no relevance in Toronto is absolute trash and you have nothing to back it up either than 2014's 18K attendance figures. 700k TV audience is nothing to underestimate. That's blue jays numbers. If there was 8000 fans showing up to TFC games in 30,000 seat bmo the atmosphere would be boring the same way 17K in rogers centre was. But aside from that we are talking about a franchise that over the last decade plus has brought in the same #s that the same team you are so passionate have. For the CFL it's deemed unacceptable. TFC fans didn't exactly over whelm the attendance meters at BMO this season. If the argos were consistently drawing flies than yes you have a point but for the most part they have been over 22K in the last 20 years. And I'm almost confident they will out draw TFC for the next 3-4 years as soccer continues to spread it's wings in Toronto. Again I don't want this to be a MLS vs CFL thing because lets be honest the MLS is a blip on the radar of this country even in Toronto, Montreal and Van. Most soccer supporters are in the buildings on game day not to many eye's are on them outside of BMO, saputo, and BC place on a tv ratings standpoint. Mean while The argos continue to lead the CFL's impressive TV standing's aside from the riders. You can't argue these things because there is no argument. Does MLS have a future in Canada? oh my god yes but for now it's in it's infancy but has an unbelievable passionate supporter group

    #2 Your son doesn't speak for the general population I'm in my mid 20's and an avid CFL fan so is most of my social setting. Just because youre son had a bad experiance in the worst CFL environment available doesn't mean Toronto doesn't support the Argos. If nobody In Toronto cares about the Argos than why do people Tv's magically turn on 9 times a year?

    #3 Please stop acting like TFC nor MLS soccer is any better off than the CFL in the eyes of pro sports. Over seas the MLS is looked at as a joke the same way the CFL is put up to the NFL. I mean yeah you can put up 100M and get a cuople decent players (that don't wanna be there) but that doesn't change the fact that MLS is a second rate product the same way the CFL is. Doesn't mean anything to me I know what the CFL is and I love it. But don't try and prop up the MLS as if it stands side by side with European football leagues. It's the highest form of Soccer this country will ever get and so is the CFL. We both cheer for second rate leagues.

    You act like the Argos have no fan base an it's frustrating because it's clearly not true at all. This isn't the blackhawks of 2005-2015 where youre trying to go from a dire 7000 fans in a 22,000 building 41 times a year. youre trying to consistently get %14 more fans to come in to make money and 23% to sell out. 5000 paying fans isn't a big deal. You guy's sound threatened by something that shouldn't be a threat to you. Leave it to the field concerns
    Last edited by epic pylon; 02-07-2016 at 11:29 PM.

  15. #3885
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post

    #3 Please stop acting like TFC nor MLS soccer is any better off than the CFL in the eyes of pro sports. Over seas the MLS is looked at as a joke the same way the CFL is put up to the NFL. I mean yeah you can put up 100M and get a cuople decent players (that don't wanna be there) but that doesn't change the fact that MLS is a second rate product the same way the CFL is. Doesn't mean anything to me I know what the CFL is and I love it. But don't try and prop up the MLS as if it stands side by side with European football leagues. It's the highest form of Soccer this country will ever get and so is the CFL. We both cheer for second rate leagues.
    Please stop acting like this is 2007. You don't have guys coming over to the CFL in their prime like Gio Dos Santos and Giovinco

    There is a reason the Argos are worth about $5M and TFC is worth $175M...if those tv numbers were worth anything, the Argos would have had people lining up to buy them when they were first for sale

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post
    No sorry. You guys are terribly mistaken. The new TV deal almost pays all player salary's right to the cap. It's 15x the revenue they were getting before. In an interview with bob the caretaker he said any CFL team should break even at 20K per season with the new tsn deal and the Economics have changed significantly post 2014 he is making money at 24K. Combine that with new stadiums that have potential to bring in revenue more than just your typical "stands and beer gardens" as for team by team...The bc lions were the CFL's most valuable teams in 2013. They seen a drop last year in attendance (significant) but again that's the world of pro sports and not one team in any league is safe from it unless your the leafs or packers. Montreal watched a veteran QB retire but they are still bringing in 21.5K a season, I hardly call that struggling. Calgary,sask, and Edmonton are just just fine 30K+. Winnipeg is the TFC of the CFL (on field success) Still report profits of 4M+ which is more than some NFL teams. If they can't make money at 24,000 fans than why are they building 24,000 seat stadiums?
    TFC's kit sponsorship can pay for the entire Argos roster.

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    Bye bye concussion-ball troll...

    You guys are so obsessed with us you join an obscure supporters group's forums and talk stupidity, you don't see TFC fans trolling up and down your boring 3rd rate forums. CFL is the past, who cares if you had 20k plus ten years ago, you had 40k 30 years ago and 14k last year, the writings on the wall you're in decline and will be gone in 5 years. Ta-ta hater!
    Last edited by mistercorporate; 02-07-2016 at 11:34 PM.

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    I find it really telling that some Argo fans get really upset when others tell them stories about how the Argos lost them. Ur worried. I get it. Why not just accept that the CFL has issues in this town and work to make it better? TFC fans have about their game.


    This whole "WE ARE STILL RELEVANT!!!!" thing is pointless. Accept that the CFL has issues in Toronto and move on.


    In a country where we ALL enjoy pursuits that not everybody does, and where that diversity of fun is celebrated, the idea that the city supports any team, beyond the Leafs and the Jays when they are winning is laughable and utterly unnecessary for the Argos to succeed.

    This isn't small town Texas.

    This isn't Regina.

    There is no need to recreate the culture of Texas and Regina football relevance. Just as there is no need to recreate the culture of European style football relevance.

    There are other things to do here. And that's OK. The Argos don't have to be supported by Toronto. They just have to do OK (and don't rip up that field).


    Toronto is just not that into you.


    ********


    As others have said, the value of the team is in the marketing. If the Argos were worth something, somebody other then the TV network who needs a Toronto CFL team would have bought them, from the guy who had 2 teams and only bought the Argos cause he didn't want his BC team to have issues.

    **********

    BTW, ur line about $100 million spent on players that don't want to be here - its right out of the CFL troll playbook, copied from other MLS supporters. And its false.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-07-2016 at 11:38 PM.

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    an NFL team is worth into the BILLIONS x5 of TFC!!! what does that have to do with the Argos success!!?!?!? Is that all you have? Net worth? revenue? TFC could make half a Million a season in profit and the Argos could/would still be a success. I don't know why you guys are turning this into a TFC vs CFL thing again.

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    There is only one Toronto Football Club, the writing's on the wall, time to get into another sport as your beloved Concussion-ball team is going to fade into mythology like their namesake greek tale...tic toc, tic toc, tic toc....

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    This whole "WE ARE STILL RELEVANT!!!!" thing is pointless. Accept that the CFL has issues in Toronto and move on.
    The problem for me doesn't exist in the Argos not having relevance in Toronto, it's who's sayin they don't...which is you guys. Every poll and survey that ive ever come across....Every statistic weather it be Ratings or attendance figures will put the Argos over TFC. The only people who will say the Argos aren't supported in T.O. is TFC fans. it's so such an odd phenomenon. You have no proof to back up your theory's. just a story of how you or someone you know used to love the Argos and don't anymore. Youre talking about a Team that almost consistently has out drawn TFC from it's very existence. You bring up franchise value...The riders are worth around 40M that will be the highest CFL value ...ever and they are more relevant in sask than TFC will ever be in T.O. So franchise value is irrelevant there is more revenue potential in the MLS. but again it has nothing to do with The argos support. This football club has brought in the same amount of fans that TFC has in a terrible gameday atmosphere so by your accounts if the Argos don't exist in the eyes of Toronto with 20,000 buts in the seats and 700,000 sets of eye balls on the TV how in god's name can you claim that TFC does!!!??
    Last edited by epic pylon; 02-07-2016 at 11:54 PM.

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    Thanks for coming. You are adding nothing to this conversation. I'm not trolling we are having a debate nobody's is insulting anyone here but you. I'm sure any mod can pick that up. If you have anything to add to this debate than please...fire away

    I have nothing against TFC fans nor the MLS I actually can't wait to see a game at BMO. I would be shocked if I got banned for putting my opinions out there even if they don't line up with yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I find it really telling that some Argo fans get really upset when others tell them stories about how the Argos lost them. Ur worried. I get it. Why not just accept that the CFL has issues in this town and work to make it better? TFC fans have about their game.


    This whole "WE ARE STILL RELEVANT!!!!" thing is pointless.


    Accept that the CFL has issues in Toronto and move on.
    There is no doubt the Argonauts have issues in this city. I believe that having a consistent schedule and not having 5 straight games on the road/at home, playing on many different days of the week will help them greatly. The Rogers Centre over the last decade decided the Argos did not have a future in their venue and thus really forced dates down their throats. Essentially telling them their 9 dates and also telling them if the Jays had a playoff run they would loose some dates, which forced two games to Hamilton on short notice.

    One little known fact that really effected the Argos lifespan at the dome was when Rogers added video screens to the outfield fence. This made the time it took to covert from baseball to football and vice versa much longer and no longer made it viable for the two teams to play on back to back days.

    Overall the Argonauts schedule in recent years has not been fan friendly and being at BMO will help a lot on this front plus when you factor in that TFC's season starts three months earlier. At the end of the day they are going to have to be aggressive and spend dollars on some good marketing campaigns plus having the Grey Cup here this season will help a lot with getting people into the building. By no means are they out of of the woods, but I do see some opportunities for them to do some good things and that in no way will take away from the Reds. This is a big city and for the most part pretty fair weather when it comes to our sports teams so it will definately be interesting to see how this progresses.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    There is no doubt the Argonauts have issues in this city. I believe that having a consistent schedule and not having 5 straight games on the road/at home, playing on many different days of the week will help them greatly. The Rogers Centre over the last decade decided the Argos did not have a future in their venue and thus really forced dates down their throats. Essentially telling them their 9 dates and also telling them if the Jays had a playoff run they would loose some dates, which forced two games to Hamilton on short notice.

    One little known fact that really effected the Argos lifespan at the dome was when Rogers added video screens to the outfield fence. This made the time it took to covert from baseball to football and vice versa much longer and no longer made it viable for the two teams to play on back to back days.

    Overall the Argonauts schedule in recent years has not been fan friendly and being at BMO will help a lot on this front plus when you factor in that TFC's season starts three months earlier. At the end of the day they are going to have to be aggressive and spend dollars on some good marketing campaigns plus having the Grey Cup here this season will help a lot with getting people into the building. By no means are they out of of the woods, but I do see some opportunities for them to do some good things and that in no way will take away from the Reds. This is a big city and for the most part pretty fair weather when it comes to our sports teams so it will definately be interesting to see how this progresses.
    "I like TFC, I am not an Argos fan. But...I can why the Argos have had problems and I can also see those problems being resolved in BMO"

    A classy realistic and educated view...Look at that

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post
    Because building stadiums is a cake walk right? The National soccer Stadium would never have got public funding if it wasn't for the CSA. This isn't the 80's anymore It's a rare case that public dollars are used on strictly for sports stadia with little to no public gain. OSEG would have never taken a run at the REDBLACKS knowing they were going into a losing investment and they are thriving. add to that the cost of building a stadium has just about doubled over the past 10-15 years. The Argos ownerships groups haveade some terrible mistakes, No question. But now this league is on an upswing and this is here you guys figure it's gonna fold. not the dark days of the 90's or rebuild of the 2000', No it's when they expand to 9 teams (and are close to a 10th) and get a TV deal that covers 1/3rd of expenses add to that almost every team is playing in a new or renovated Stadium capable of bringing in twice the revenue at %80 of the seats
    Did you know that the Argos partnered with the CSA in trying to get a new stadium a decade ago? First it was the CNE, then it was Varsity Stadium, then it was the campus of York University. Then the Argos did their own deal with Rogers to get free rent at the concrete convertible leaving the soccer people high and dry. Now you come crawling back to us thinking you have the moral authority in moving in to BMO Field with your pants pockets turned inside out?

    Fuck off you shitbag! You've got no goddamn business lecturing to us why your precious Argos deserve to move into our house when you've continually screwed the pooch with your status in Toronto.
    TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoe15 View Post
    Did you know that the Argos partnered with the CSA in trying to get a new stadium a decade ago? First it was the CNE, then it was Varsity Stadium, then it was the campus of York University. Then the Argos did their own deal with Rogers to get free rent at the concrete convertible leaving the soccer people high and dry. Now you come crawling back to us thinking you have the moral authority in moving in to BMO Field with your pants pockets turned inside out?

    Fuck off you shitbag! You've got no goddamn business lecturing to us why your precious Argos deserve to move into our house when you've continually screwed the pooch with your status in Toronto.
    The Argonauts really only bailed one of the those projects. The initial idea of returning to the EX grounds in reality never got off the ground. Now in terms of U of T, what killed that was when president Robert Birgeneau left to become the chancellor at Berkley and the type of facility the incoming regime wanted changed. The desire to build a stadium designed for a pro team just was not there anymore. They wanted a sports facility for the students and thus built the scaled down varsity stadium. Now in terms of York, yes that is the one they walked away from for different reasons including the Rogers folks luring them back, in reality it was Paul Godfrey who did it, he had agenda too.

    To to tell you the truth BMO Field only got built because of the 2007 U20 World Cup and not for the desire of bring a MLS team to town, TFC were a bonus of that and no one would have ever predicted their initial success, thus someone could argue BMO Field was not even built for them. Just Saying. There is always going to be two sides to this and that's good.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    -I'm not an argos fan #1
    -I don't believe the argos should rightfully be in BMO. completely on your side with that. BMO is a soccer stadium and should remain one. The argos messed up time and time again and here they are at a time where building a football stadium is now out of the question and they have one choice....bmo. It's not right at all

    All i'm contesting is that the argos can/will work in BMO and that it's not as dire of a situation (for fan support) as one would think. Yes they have financial problems..or did. But that's the past I'm talking about the future
    Last edited by epic pylon; 02-08-2016 at 12:21 AM.

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    you say about yourself, 'I'm not even an Argos fan'...well i was....

    for someone who is not even an Argos fan you seem
    obsessed...at least by the myriad of emotional posts on here....

    i relayed my experience, MY experience, growing up as a once massive argos fan and the reaction from my son then and now. again it is my experience, living and breathing in this city all my life, that the argos brand has greatly diminished. i am also quite sure that if and when Toronto gets an NFL team the CFL will be even less relevant in Toronto - maybe a London Ontario based franchise or other southern ontario town team could step in...but Toronto, i kind of doubt it.

    as for your comments on MLS as a second rate product...that certainly has been the case in the past but the point is and the one i was making is that soccer is a global growing sport and the MLS has grown leaps and bounds since it's inception and continues to do so. That is why players like Ronaldo, Neymar,
    Ibrahimovic etc. have said they would like to one day play in the MLS...the goal is to be a top flight league - the CFL will never be that....the MLS eventually will, like it or not.

    again i wish the best for the CFL
    for nostalgia sake, i really do...but bottom line; if the Argos screw up the pitch...F#@k 'em....big time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic pylon View Post
    -I'm not an argos fan #1
    -I don't believe the argos should rightfully be in BMO. completely on your side with that. BMO is a soccer stadium and should remain one. The argos messed up time and time again and here they are at a time where building a football stadium is now out of the question and they have one choice....bmo. It's not right at all

    All i'm contesting is that the argos can/will work in BMO and that it's not as dire of a situation (for fan support) as one would think. Yes they have financial problems..or did. But that's the past I'm talking about the future
    For someone who claims they're not a diehard Argos fan, you sure do a piss poor job of saying otherwise with all your posts here. So go take your opinions on the matter and jam them where the sun don't shine!
    TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)

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    I'm passionate about the future of a league I care deeply about. That should be respected by a fan base like yourselves no?

    It would be like me trying to convince you that the Impact has no place in Montreal because of the recent attendance trouble's, And that it's a reflection of the MLS and soccers future in Canada. As a TFC fan you would be insulted The same way I am insulted as a bombers fan. You would throw any stat you could at me to try and get your point across like any passionate fan would.

    I really hope you see where I'm coming from
    Last edited by epic pylon; 02-08-2016 at 01:47 AM.

 

 

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