i'm talking the value TFC's ownership % of SUM.Originally Posted by Oldtimer
SUM is worth 500M * 75%MLS ownership = $375M / 20 teams = $19m value per club
i'm talking the value TFC's ownership % of SUM.
SUM is worth 500M * 75%MLS ownership = $375M / 20 teams = $19m value per club
Last edited by Qman; 08-24-2015 at 11:41 PM.
At a certain point I just tune these things out. I refuse to believe such a high portion of fans consistently fail to account for traffic or are incapable of showing up for the game. When these team was actually trendy, people showed up and actually filled seats within short proximity of kickoff. The city didn't change that much in the past few years
Although at some point people have to learn to adjust, there are a lot of people who for what ever reason have to drive to games.
The condo boom in Liberty Village and along Queen's Quay has significantly changed things from what they were in 2007-2009. As much as a lot of those people don't drive, a lot do. And this isn't stopping. There are condos now planned for the the South West and the North East corners of Dufferin and King. (Island Foods, Burger King, Starbucks and MacDonalds)
If the Argo people, who are predominately suburban dwellers, don't like going down to the Dome, they are going to hate going down to BMO.
Argos have sparse attendance and it's a poor following yet TFC have sparse attendance and it's the traffic?
c'mon guys there is nothing new here in this discussion. TFC's attendance is a concern and has been even with Defoe last year and even in a playoff chase. With good weather or bad weather or a TTC delay or a parking nightmare. The stadium is in a poor location IMO but won't get any better.
Very few of us felt that expanding to 30,000 seats was a wise move for the soccer team. But they didn't expand for the soccer team did they? Hell we aren't even sure at this point what surface the team will play on. They didn't expand for the Argos either. Go Leafs go.
TFC is an attractive investment because it is the only way to buy into MLS/SUM and the tv rights that are profitable. The Argos are much less attractive as there is no SUM prize attached.
I am not sure where this discussion can lead. It's all been said hasn't it?
Any grass updates?
Last edited by Pookie; 08-25-2015 at 06:38 AM.
i think driving is about having control. At least the perception of freedom. We can find the best lot or the quickest route to the game. See the game on your own schedule and plan.
Drivers would have the perception that the TTC is inconvenient, lots of waiting around and depending on someone else to get you there.
Practically speaking, for me coming in from the north, it's not an easy task to take the TTC in. I'm likely driving to a subway stop, getting downtown and then transferring cross town. Add to it a crowded hot summer ride and the fact that I'm already in my private air conditioned shuttle bus, what's the value?
There has been no updates since the last meeting.
They are using grass next year until it can no longer be used and replacing it mid-season. There is not much confidence in this replacement retaining the quality it should be.
You are correct. Attendance and the clubs worth has little to do with this discussion.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
BMO field is in a GREAT location.
There is nothing wrong with the attendance, they get from 20,000 to sometimes 22 000 on average so where is the problem? I remember when the team was announced and all the soccer haters in the media predicted they would be lucky to get 3000 a game and look how that prediction went. I'm happy with what they get anything over 20000 is a bonus, I mean they do play close to almost what 20 home dates so 20000 is a good number for about 20 home dates, the Argos on the other hand who only have 9 or 10 home games to fill should be concerned if they only average around 20000 to 9 or 10 home dates, but I know they get good TV money from the league but still with only 9 or 10 home dates to fill they should be getting close to the 30000 mark for games.
a good number of the suites are sold through corporate sponsorship packages though
disagree; their lease of BMO Field holds a lot of value; their ownership of KIA Training Ground plus long-long-term lease of land holds a lot of value; if they sold there 3 highest wage earners, they probably could get $40M-$50M in the transfer market; valuation of assets is key in this number
considering 4 years ago, SUM sold 25% for $150M and what SUM does now has probably doubled since 2011, i think your numbers are a bit of; figure each teams stake in SUM is equal to about $45-$50M
Ding ding ding ding ding; we have a winner...i cannot wait to hear them complain!
Last edited by prizby; 08-25-2015 at 09:31 PM.
Every time I am at BMO I walk around wondering what will turn blue.
Argo fans at BMO in November?
How does the "suburban dwellers" demo differ between TFC and the Argo's though? Lots of TFC supporters are from the burbs and come down to BMO. If it was as simple as "people from the burbs don't like coming downtown" then TFC games would suffer from the same issue.
The % of people who come to games from the burbs is way lower for TFC - there's not many Argo supporters who live in the core. ( I live in the inner suburbs btw)
exactly this....and the last part is bang on.....I come from north of Steeles, where transit is iffy on even good days (long time between busses, out of service, etc.)......to come from there by transit would take no shorter time than driving down, and maybe even longer if you plan you're drive route correctly.....
I'd say that people who ask why some coming from a distance do not take transit, have never actually TRIED to get downtown by transit from some of these places.......
I always plan my drive route and never have a problem getting to the stadium......besides, once you get downtown you can pretty much take any sidestreets as a detour to construction, traffic, etc........the problem is the Gardiner, but going through the city is normally as good as can be......
I really don't get all this "TFC has attendance issues" stuff.
TFC has the 2nd highest attendance in the city, behind the Jays - and they weren't THAT far behind them in 2014 (29k vs 22k).
(Obviously Leafs and Raps are constricted by capacity of ACC).
Yes, last weekend looked bad.
And this weekend likely will too with the Ex still going on.
As do games during Indy, or when there's a Marathon closing lakeshore, etc...
But in general, attendance this year has been pretty good!
The crowds have been pretty full.
For a bunch of games the crowds wouldn't have fit into the pre-expansion BMO.
People arriving after kick-off is an annoying problem, but that's just a Toronto thing.
I don't know why, but people in downtown Toronto are late for EVERYTHING.
I live downtown, and I'm often guilty of it myself (although not normally for TFC games).
While this isn't likely to stop completely, TFC/MLS could help somewhat with smarter scheduling.
For example, the game on Aug 8 was scheduled for 4PM.
Lakeshore was completely closed from 1pm to 6pm for ParaPanAm Road Cycling race, causing traffic chaos and resulting in the stands at BMO being half-empty at kick-off.
Why not schedule that game for 7:30 or 8:00, once Lakeshore had re-opened???
The PanAM/ParaPanAm road closure schedules were made public months in advance.
Anyway, sorry to veer off-topic, but it's just a pet-peeve of mine when people harp on TFC's attendance, despite the fact that in reality, it is actually quite good!
Last edited by gdg_9; 08-26-2015 at 10:57 AM.
Guys there are several old attendance threads if you want to continue that vein of discussion...
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
its one more thing to whinge about, one more thing people think they could do better at
Where will the Argos' retired #s/honoured players be displayed? As they've actually made the playoffs and actually won championships they have more of a right to a 'wall-of-fame' than TFC. TFC may be the only club to have honoured #s despite never qualifying for the playoffs. I've seen Jimmy Brennan play... and he's no Michael Clemons, I can assure you.
Will the Argo cheerleaders make themselves available for TFC matches as well... or will we have to settle for the ones from Hamilton?
^ Argos wall of honour can go on the east side maybe? Fair point. Likely to be a lot more need for space for their lengthy existence. Maybe a statue or plaque outside the stadium?
Where are the Argos teams and players currently honoured at the Rogers center?
Banners WAAAAY up over the Hotel end
****
BTW, I thought this was a troll.
Probably game day you will see their banners hanging somewhere. Like Tim Leiweke said, we aren't going to notice Argos presence at BMO field. Since TFC are main tenant while their owners (MLSE) manage BMO field, I would say there's a good chance not seeing any Argos banners and signs outside Argo game day.
FYI: Making playoffs in CFL isn't accomplishment at all. Even winning bunch of Grey Cups in 8 team league is nothing to really brag about (it's like Leaf fans bragging about their cups even though far majority of them were won when there was less than 10 teams...lol).
All of them, actually. The Leafs last won the cup the last year of the six-team NHL. The next season the league expanded to twelve teams.
Careful. Better make sure that glass house has insurance.
6 of 9 teams make the cfl playoffs. 6 of 10 teams MLS teams in the conference make the playoffs. Pretty similar low bar.
"You won't even know the argos play at BMO on a TFC game day" - TL
no argos logos or wall of honor would be implied within that statement.
Then again wouldn't be the first fib told about the stadium/move
True. I personally think TFC making playoffs alone isn't enough to be consider a successful season.Careful. Better make sure that glass house has insurance.
6 of 9 teams make the cfl playoffs. 6 of 10 teams MLS teams in the conference make the playoffs. Pretty similar low bar.
However, TFC play a lot more competitive league games compare to Argos where there isn't much competition. Winning Supporter Shield and MLS cup is a lot harder than winning Grey Cup.
EDIT: CFL have two divisions/conferences where 6 teams (3 of each division or 4 in one division and 2 in other division) ends up making to the playoffs. Argos chances to make the playoffs is actually 75% if all things equal.
Last edited by TFC07; 08-26-2015 at 09:20 PM.
^ And they do make the playoffs most years. And win Grey Cups.
The Argos Grey Cup record is good relative to the other teams in that same 9 team league. Do they dominate the CFL? No, but they do better relative to their league than most professional Toronto teams do relative to their respective leagues.
And, after being in the same area and on display for 20ish years. Rogers decided they didn't want "competing logos" (That was Rogers actual response) during Blue Jays games, and thus they are no longer up during Jays games. Not sure when the Blue Jays played the Argos, but it's just another example of Rogers pettiness towards the CFL & Argos.
At BMO, I don't have an issue if they are put up and removed after every game, like in Montreal, the issue I have with Rogers is that someone suddenly decided this non-issue was an issue.
Aren't Toronto Argos oldest team in CFL or professional team in general? Like I said before, taking Argos' accomplishment seriously is like taking Leafs' "glory days" seriously.
This is why I have a lot respect for Blue Jays (I am not baseball fan) for winning World Series back to back season.
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