Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Wagner]

Funny you say that.
My Councillor says that the Argos at BMO is 100% MLSE decision.
He couldn't get involved if he wanted to.

[Wagner]

from my councillor:

Thanks for writing. While BMO Field is leased to MLSE by the City, they retain the right to program and retrofit it as they see fit. I do not believe there is a role the City can play between these two privately owned businesses as they continue their discussions with other levels of government, but I appreciate you sharing your concern for the well-being of BMO field. The expansion of the field (to the sizes described in the article) already have approvals from City Council, and the City is not contributing to the expansion in it's capital plan. The $10 Million output will be fully recovered by the City.

You can see the summary of this decision here: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...file-67466.pdf

You sound like you know what you are talking about with respect to the condition of the turf. Have you shared your concerns directly with the MLSE?

[Villa TFC]

Short and sweet: Argos in, I'm out. Nothing against the Argos or CFL, but having been a Toronto Blizzard SSH at Exhibition Stadium, I will NEVER go back to attending any soccer match at any stadium shared with any gridiron team. Soccer is completely and totally incompatible with gridiron if you actually care about the product on the field and the supporter experience. TFC season ticket sales have always been very, very impressive even during the lowest of the lows and attendance has been better than the performances have merited. If MLSE ignores the concerns of those diehard supporters who have made Toronto FC one of the best-supported teams in the league by even contemplating - let alone actually encouraging - the arrival of the Argos is a staggering betrayal of that support and I for one will not tolerate it. Argos in, I'm out.

[Petor]

my response was just a few minutes after my email.

That must be a form letter because I got basically the same after I complained a month ago when the rumours first started.

[Mulder]

from my councillor:

No offense, but your Councillor should have read the very article he/she linked.

[Petor]

No offense, but your Councillor should have read the very article he/she linked.

Yup, from the article right near the end.
So we are stuck with the Argos for at least 20 years or until they go under.

"Pre-Conditions for Final Agreement Commitments shall be secured from the Federal and Provincial governments for their respective $10 million capital contributions Both the City and MLSEL must be satisfied with any terms required by the Federal and Provincial governments in return for their capital contributions

 MLSEL shall secure a commitment from the Toronto Argonauts for the long-term use (i.e. 20 years) of the stadium as the home facility for the Argos MLSEL shall reach an agreement with the Canadian National Exhibition Association (CNEA) with respect to construction disruption and removal of lands or building from use by the CNEA, including negotiating a satisfactory arrangement in lieu of the 2 years notice requirement regarding any redevelopment of the Ex Place grounds"

[Redcoe15]

It really doesn't matter how much a lot of us despise the idea of the Argos moving into BMO Field. The minute Phineas Tim told us about these plans of expanding the stadium was the moment that they were going to move in ASAP.

Rogers doesn't want them in their concrete convertible because they want grass installed for the Blue Jays. The GTA communities have no serious interest in building them a stadium (an NHL style rink, sure why not?). And ML$E wants to expand BMO Field in order to maximize profits there, like hosting as many outdoor Leaf games they feel they're entitled to. Bringing in the Argos makes sense in that they can squeeze any penny out of them that they can.

Phineas Tim sold us this idea that everyone can have it all. That the soccer crowd and gridiron crowd can live together under the same roof and that nobody would notice that one side or the other was here, and that we can all be happy, hold hands and sing Kumbaya together.

Problem is when you try and appease everyone, you end up appeasing no one. The soccer crowd doesn't like the idea of the Argos playing at BMO Field because of the damage it will do to the pitch, plus the potential of lines and ads being left on after a game no matter how hard they try and remove them. And the gridiron crowd doesn't like the idea of the Argos being a secondary tenant to a sport they believe is inferior to theirs which is played by divas and followed by drunken hooligans looking for a fight.

And it's really bad for us because no one is going to sympathize with us. Not the public and not the media. The Argos are indeed a basketcase, but if it comes down to public opinion, consensus is going to side with the Double Blue because they are one of the oldest sporting teams in the country with a long standing legacy to the game and to the country, no matter how pathetic they've become. And never underestimate just how much Canadian traditions matter to the people of this nation. TFC? They've been a joke since they entered MLS, failing to make the playoffs in a league where it's not difficult to turn things around in a short period of time. Soccer may be on the rise in this country, but you wouldn't know it looking at TFC's television ratings. And who'll be on our side? Blair? Brunt? Kelly? We're going to be told to suck it up and deal with it.

And in my worst case scenario, I can see where after they move in, the Argos are bought from within ML$E for a song and are prodded and pressured by TSN executives to make them the number one tenant at BMO Field where they get the prime dates for maximum television exposure and the playing surface is chopped to pieces by wear and tear caused by the gridiron teams and the lines and ads are still visible for a soccer match. A plastic surface wouldn't be out of the question.

I just have to let this out. This is what happens when you have a group of individuals looking for profit over sporting performance run your teams. ML$E had no idea what they had when they bought into MLS. But once they did, all they saw of it was how much money to milk out of it to disastrous results. Now they've focused on BMO Field, and I feel the worse is at hand.

/rant.

[TFC07]

Don't worry, Canadian soccer league might be coming soon.

Canada is going to be bidding for World Cup 2026 and there's rumours that CSA is working with Traffic (SUM/MLS rival) on World Cup bid AND Canadian soccer league (or at least Canadian division in NASL) as we speak.

[Petor]

Don't worry, Canadian soccer league might be coming soon.

Canada is going to be bidding for World Cup 2026 and there's rumours that CSA is working with Traffic (SUM/MLS rival) on World Cup bid AND Canadian soccer league (or at least Canadian division in NASL) as we speak.

And, where are they going to play? Vaughan?

[TFC07]

And, where are they going to play? Vaughan?

We will find out when CSA give details of their plan.

Remember that FIFA will make a condition to CSA to form a domestic league if they want to host World Cup like how they did with USA back in 94.

[ag futbol]

Short and sweet: Argos in, I'm out. Nothing against the Argos or CFL, but having been a Toronto Blizzard SSH at Exhibition Stadium, I will NEVER go back to attending any soccer match at any stadium shared with any gridiron team. Soccer is completely and totally incompatible with gridiron if you actually care about the product on the field and the supporter experience. TFC season ticket sales have always been very, very impressive even during the lowest of the lows and attendance has been better than the performances have merited. If MLSE ignores the concerns of those diehard supporters who have made Toronto FC one of the best-supported teams in the league by even contemplating - let alone actually encouraging - the arrival of the Argos is a staggering betrayal of that support and I for one will not tolerate it. Argos in, I'm out.

I'm expecting the "don't worry, it's not even going to be noticable!" speach. Inclined to tell them to stuff it from the get-go. In two years they will be telling us to hold on because with the new improvements in the field we'll never notice football has been played.

These guys just don't get it. Time for them to learn on their own dime and not mine.

[Petor]

I'm expecting the "don't worry, it's not even going to be noticable!" speach. Inclined to tell them to stuff it from the get-go. In two years they will be telling us to hold on because with the new improvements in the field we'll never notice football has been played.

These guys just don't get it. Time for them to learn on their own dime and not mine.

I agree.
My position is as simple as others, at least my ticket rep knows it.
Argos in I'm out.
I will return after Argos leave but only after the field and team are repaired after the damage has been done.
Being a pensioner hopefully I live that long.

[MightyDM]

My contribution - just sent this to my ticket rep (and have encouraged many of the guys I go to games with to do the same):

Hi Kirsten, I know this isn't something you can have change, but I was hoping that you could "pass this up the line" so to speak.Thanks


I have been a TFC SSH for a number of years, travelling from Guelph to countless home games during that time. I have travelled to Kansas, Philadelphia, Columbus, DC, Montreal and Boston all numerous times to help support this team on the road. We have organized a bus for all weekend home games from Guelph that brings 30-40 fans to every game. I am a member of the RPB and have spent hours making my own banners for section 110/1. What it comes down to is, I love this team. The people I go to games with and travel 100s of miles with love this team.


I understand that the Argos to BMO Field might be inevitable. Despite the Argos almost causing the stadium to not get built almost 10 years ago, I understand that certain economic and political realities exist and this move may still happen. And as a TFC SSH, if this move happens, and I have to look at lines on the field, or the field is regularly trashed by the CFL games, or if we need to take 10 steps back and revert to a turf field, then after years of support I am done. A losing team I can deal with. Mismanagement of the team I can deal with. Watching soccer and it's supporters treated as second class citizens to support another team? Turns out that's my final straw.


I don't hate the Argos, and wish them all the best, but not at the expense of soccer. The "National Soccer Stadium" needs to remain as such. A grass pitch you can play the ball on the ground on is absolutely essential to that.


And I know I'm just one supporter, but I know how the people on my bus feel. And I know how the people I go to games feel. And I know how many of the die-hards you use to market this team feel. And for many of us this will be the last straw.


I love TFC, but if this is how supporters are going to be treated I'm done supporting MLSE.


Thanks for your time


Ben Mathers
SSH since 2009

Great post. Eleven non SSH regular attendees can say the same.

[MightyDM]

You can say something as a supporter and a regular attendee. Still matters.

[MightyDM]

Funny you say that.
My Councillor says that the Argos at BMO is 100% MLSE decision.
He couldn't get involved if he wanted to.

That is not true at all. The City owns it, thru Exhibition Place. There is a federal provincial city deal and all three governments had to give permission to install the grass - look it up. It's BS.

[Petor]

We will find out when CSA give details of their plan.

Remember that FIFA will make a condition to CSA to form a domestic league if they want to host World Cup like how they did with USA back in 94.

Yes but remember when the MLS started that they had teams playing in NFL stadiums, baseball stadiums, wherever.
Columbus was the first(correct if wrong) SSS, that's saying something.

[king10]

Gab did a better job on research. Why repeat it? You can always just quote another user.

You follow the National team. You should know where the FIFA calendar falls. Even with us utilizing every date (and we're close to it now) we live in Toronto. Nobody is using the stadium outdoors in winter. Half the available dates on the FIFA calendar will be away and more than that when the weather dictates.

Compare it to other National stadiums and National teams in like latitudes. The numbers won't be so far apart.

I don't see why you'd be so dismissive about your closest soccer facility hosting National team matches.

England played at Wembley 44 times form 2007 to 2014. And thats just the NT not the U20's or womens. Thats over three and a half time as much as Canada. Canada plays most of their friendlies in europe, florida central america or the carribean. Not comparable to other NT stadiums. The numbers are further apart then you make it out to be. We're lucky to have one MNT home friendly a year.

http://www.englandfootballonline.com...007to2020.html

Sorry for not quoting another user. I'm not well versed in forum nuances. That and I was typing from my phone so it was difficult to do.

[Petor]

England played at Wembley 44 times form 2007 to 2014. And thats just the NT not the U20's or womens. Thats over three and a half time as much as Canada. Canada plays most of their friendlies in europe, florida central america or the carribean. Not comparable to other NT stadiums. The numbers are further apart then you make it out to be. We're lucky to have one MNT home friendly a year.

http://www.englandfootballonline.com...007to2020.html

Sorry for not quoting another user. I'm not well versed in forum nuances. That and I was typing from my phone so it was difficult to do.

You can't compare Canada and England.
How many league games are played in Canada during the winter months, and how many do they play in England?

[king10]

You can't compare Canada and England.
How many league games are played in Canada during the winter months, and how many do they play in England?

He said same latitude's so thats what I did.

[JDMD]

Yup, from the article right near the end.
So we are stuck with the Argos for at least 20 years or until they go under.

"Pre-Conditions for Final Agreement Commitments shall be secured from the Federal and Provincial governments for their respective $10 million capital contributions Both the City and MLSEL must be satisfied with any terms required by the Federal and Provincial governments in return for their capital contributions

 MLSEL shall secure a commitment from the Toronto Argonauts for the long-term use (i.e. 20 years) of the stadium as the home facility for the Argos MLSEL shall reach an agreement with the Canadian National Exhibition Association (CNEA) with respect to construction disruption and removal of lands or building from use by the CNEA, including negotiating a satisfactory arrangement in lieu of the 2 years notice requirement regarding any redevelopment of the Ex Place grounds"

Based on reading that document, another pre-condition to the final agreement is that both the Federal and Provincial governments kick in $10 million each. Since this hasn't happened, I doubt the city has funded their $10 million contribution, which probably means that technically, the Argos pre-condition doesn't apply.

[Petor]

He said same latitude's so thats what I did.

North Atlantic Drift explained...

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/repor...ulf-Stream.htm

[king10]

North Atlantic Drift explained...

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/repor...ulf-Stream.htm

yes yes i know about that.

[Petor]

yes yes i know about that.

If you did how can you use the UK to compare national teams then?

[Fort York Redcoat]

England played at Wembley 44 times form 2007 to 2014. And thats just the NT not the U20's or womens. Thats over three and a half time as much as Canada. Canada plays most of their friendlies in europe, florida central america or the carribean. Not comparable to other NT stadiums. The numbers are further apart then you make it out to be. We're lucky to have one MNT home friendly a year.

http://www.englandfootballonline.com...007to2020.html

Sorry for not quoting another user. I'm not well versed in forum nuances. That and I was typing from my phone so it was difficult to do.

So you chose England. Their stadium built for their National team first and they play there year round. How is that comparison even close?

[Wagner]

Petor, because he's trolling.
Coming on a Soccer Forum, to rip on Soccer.

I suggested going to a CFL forum, he might be happier there.
But i'm guessing there isn't one...or no one goes on it.

[king10]

Because he asked for the same lattitude and thats what i did. What do you guys want? It appears the lynch mob is growing so im going to step out for a bit.

[Fort York Redcoat]

He said same latitude's so thats what I did.

yes yes i know about that.

Not helping your comparison is it.

[king10]

Petor, because he's trolling.
Coming on a Soccer Forum, to rip on Soccer.

I suggested going to a CFL forum, he might be happier there.
But i'm guessing there isn't one...or no one goes on it.

not trolling. Dissapointing response from a VP though.

you guys sure make it difficult for anyone other than a rpb to support this team. Seems like quite an exclusive club.

[Petor]

What I'm saying is that you know what our winters are like so some FIFA friendlies and matches have to be played in Florida and those games as a home team because we have no choice because of the weather here.
And a thank you to Florida for hosting our home games in the winter.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Because he asked for the same lattitude and thats what i did. What do you guys want? It appears the lynch mob is growing so im going to step out for a bit.

Lynch mob? That's extreme. If you don't like the conclusions your comparisons are making feel free to make another point.